What's Your Departments Sidearm Caliber Choice?
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We went from 9mm to 40 a few years back, after a few officer involved shootings I believe it was determined that the 9mm did not have the stopping power. On one shooting the 9mm round went right through and cauterized the wound. The suspect fled and was found a day latter.
There was talk of going to a 45 cal. but the larger weapon seemed to be a problem with officers with small hands.
There was talk of going to a 45 cal. but the larger weapon seemed to be a problem with officers with small hands.
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Marlborough went to .40s a couple years back b/c the 9mm that they had proved to be consistently inaccurate. .40 has more knock-down power too.
I seriously doubt that there is an accuracy potential difference between 9mm and .40 S&W, in th e same frame/action. If they switched because of accuracy issues, they got hoodwinked.
As for" knock down power", that's a huge minomer if ever there was one.
As for" knock down power", that's a huge minomer if ever there was one.
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There .40s they got now are a hell of a lot more accurate than the 9s they had before. Im not saying they are perfect because they are not because they are S&W Tactical .40. The S&W should explain it all.
Again the caliber has nothing to do with the accuracy potential. 9mm, 10mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP all have equal accuracy potential at CQB ranges.
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Barretta 9mil, 92D Centrurion
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S&W 6946 9MM It's ok it's not that bad. Nice and small compared to my SIG 220 I carry at my regular job. I have the rubber molded houge grip on my S&W and it makes it easier for me to hold and shoot it. I threw 200 rounds through my S&W at the range a couple weeks back and it was pretty good no problems what-so-ever I fired fast, slow, and everywhere in between.
Scott
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Scott
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Yeah, CQB. At longer ranges though, caliber makes a difference. If caliber didnt make a difference, then tell me why they have all these different calibers.
This was your statement
No department in their right mind would switch because the 9mm is somehow less accurate that the .40 S&W. More than anything else most departments switch caliber because the buy into the FBI testing reports and are looking for some sort of "power edge"
There is no "long range" shooting with a pistol for police, if you've got to shoot over 25 yards (and 25 yards is a LONG way) for a tactical situation you prolly should be using something else.
Why do we have all these different calibers? different use, different theory as to what is best, the debate of penetration v. wound channel, issues of over penetration v. "stoping power, maximum number fo rounds carried v. effectiveness of each round....then there are the various disciplines of shooting itself...match, small bore, centerfire, bullseye, you name it different calibers and different ammunition within calibers.
In CQB the accuracy potential of modern firearms that a department would consider issuing is so close that it's almost a non issue.
No department in their right mind would switch because the 9mm is somehow less accurate that the .40 S&W. More than anything else most departments switch caliber because the buy into the FBI testing reports and are looking for some sort of "power edge"
There is no "long range" shooting with a pistol for police, if you've got to shoot over 25 yards (and 25 yards is a LONG way) for a tactical situation you prolly should be using something else.
Why do we have all these different calibers? different use, different theory as to what is best, the debate of penetration v. wound channel, issues of over penetration v. "stoping power, maximum number fo rounds carried v. effectiveness of each round....then there are the various disciplines of shooting itself...match, small bore, centerfire, bullseye, you name it different calibers and different ammunition within calibers.
Beretta 9MM for us (DOD Police.) The gun is not bad and the loads we are carrying are actually pretty good- Federal 115 Grain +P+. As far as accuracy goes, I really don't think caliber matters all that much. I personnally believe that the .357 SIG round is one of the best for law enforcement.
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Well we carry 9mm berettas but those are our secondary weapons. Some of us carry sig P226 in .45. Maybe a few might get a USP MK23 SOCOM. I personally hate the 9mm for our purposes I think we should carry .45's or have other options being mission dependent. just my .02
I am undecided about the .357sig round, I don't have any range time w/ it but all it really is a .40S&W round with a .357 slug so I think it has potential but I have heard mixed reviews.
I am undecided about the .357sig round, I don't have any range time w/ it but all it really is a .40S&W round with a .357 slug so I think it has potential but I have heard mixed reviews.
.357 Sig is GOOD stuff...Neat issues, buy a .40 S&W you can interchage parts and get two guns for the price of one. The .mags are the same...change the barrel and recoil spring...tada...
Glock in 45 GAP might be something to look into.
Glock in 45 GAP might be something to look into.
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Im not talking about tactical situations, Im talking about defense situations that police officers once in a while get into. POs dont havethe option to just grab a rifle or a slug gun if they are taking fire. They use what is on their duty belt and they would like to have something that will get the job done. Dont get me wrong depts. dont issue the best pistol available, every dept has a different budget. Its all about ballistics and price is what they make their decision on. Caliber size, shape of bullet, weight of bullet, type of powder, amount of powder base on size of cartridge, and all that other good stuff that involves ballistics at the price tag that comes along with it is what I'm talking about. You're saying all calibers basically have the same ballistics. Not true.
I am saying that caliber has very little to do with ACCURACY when it comes to taking shots.
The PD in your town did not switch to 40 S&W because the 9mm is inherently less accurate.
Again you state:
"Marlborough went to .40s a couple years back b/c the 9mm that they had proved to be consistently inaccurate"
Now the firearm might be inaccurate as a system, but the caliber is not. Then again the 40 S&W could suffer from the same problem as a gun platform.
You DID NOT say that they switched from 9mm to 40 S&W because the .40S&W has superior terminal and external ballistics, if you are modifying your statement now to try and restate that, I would agree that many departments switched from 9mm to .40 S&W because of reports that the .40S&W had performed better as a terminal round.
Make no mistake I am NOT saying that all calibers and bullets have the same internal, external, or terminal ballistics. I am saying that the following calibers 9mm, 40 S&W, .357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 GAP, all have equal accuracy potential in the distances that matter to police.
For the "simple version" .40 S&W isn't more accurate that 9mm as a caliber at distances that matter to police, and no police department ever bought into the .40 S&W as "more accurate" because even the FBI studies tend to indicate that the recoil im-ulse of the .40 S&W tend to make it slightly less accurate for the average shooter.
The PD in your town did not switch to 40 S&W because the 9mm is inherently less accurate.
Again you state:
"Marlborough went to .40s a couple years back b/c the 9mm that they had proved to be consistently inaccurate"
Now the firearm might be inaccurate as a system, but the caliber is not. Then again the 40 S&W could suffer from the same problem as a gun platform.
You DID NOT say that they switched from 9mm to 40 S&W because the .40S&W has superior terminal and external ballistics, if you are modifying your statement now to try and restate that, I would agree that many departments switched from 9mm to .40 S&W because of reports that the .40S&W had performed better as a terminal round.
Make no mistake I am NOT saying that all calibers and bullets have the same internal, external, or terminal ballistics. I am saying that the following calibers 9mm, 40 S&W, .357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 GAP, all have equal accuracy potential in the distances that matter to police.
For the "simple version" .40 S&W isn't more accurate that 9mm as a caliber at distances that matter to police, and no police department ever bought into the .40 S&W as "more accurate" because even the FBI studies tend to indicate that the recoil im-ulse of the .40 S&W tend to make it slightly less accurate for the average shooter.
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Idk, I dont feel like getting into this anymore because it seems like we're getting nowhere. Maybe they were pulling stuff out of their ass when they said they switched because of accuracy. Maybe accuracy seems better to me with .40S&W because barrel length or something with the gun or ammunition we are using.
Now understanding that your dad's a cop and you are not, thereby having no real insight as to the selcetion process makes everything a little clearer.
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I think we should limit him to the Impersonating a PO thread that way he can learn what not to do when he's out playing cop with daddys stuff.SOT_II @ Tue 07 Dec said:
Scott :santa:
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Actually you're not really saying much that makes sense.marlboroughpd @ 07 Dec 2004 15:53 said:
1. You assert P.D.'s "don't issue the best pistol available" So which pistol would that be?
2. "ballistics and price" are hardly deciding factors.
3. Identifying specific variables involved in the paper science of ballistics just proves you're intelligent and can read. But you're not making any real point.
I'm sure you're a nice kid but.......... your experience is very limited and when coupled with your opinion, it just makes hot air.
:roll:
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