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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The issue of "restricted" Class A LTCs seems to have come up a number of times in here. So I thought it would be interesting to poll all the cops in here to see what they would do if they discovered that someone was carrying concealed with a Class A LTC that was restricted.

So let's say that you stop somebody for speeding and you discover that they are carrying concealed and that that they have a Class A LTC that is restricted to sport/target/whatever.

What would you do? Write their speeding ticket and send them on their way? Or would you bust them by writing a letter to the LEO who issued their license?

I'm wondering how sympathetic most cops here would be for people stuck with "restricted" LTCs from corrupt cesspools like Boston.
 

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Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

I no longer work for the PD, but what I would have done would be "use officer's discretion"!

This assumes that the officer would know that the person is carrying! I've been stopped twice while carrying and I never mentioned it and the officer never knew about it. It was a non-issue. . . I had my license in my hand prior to him coming up to the car so I never had to reach near the gun while the contact was underway. [In the first case it was a Boston motorcycle cop in a cruiser and he was nasty and belligerent. I was dressed in a jacket and tie on a Sunday morning and just "yes sir", "no sir" him to death; received verbal warning and that was that. The second stop was in Newton and the officer stayed behind the driver's door pillar (proper procedure and rarely done that way around here) so I never saw his name tag or a clear view of his face, but after he ran me he called me by my nickname (not my legal name on my DL) and wished me a good evening . . . I think he knew me and was a fellow member of the Police Square Club (we had a big contingent from Newton PD back then), but I never found out who he was.]

If the person was a stand-up person who didn't act like a jerk when stopped, I'd simply inform him that he shouldn't be carrying with that restricted license and do nothing further regarding the LTC.

If the person acted like a jerk, I would make a judgment call and perhaps notify his licensing authority.
 

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Before I go off on a tangent, can someone with one of these "Boston Restriced LTCs" Please reply with a quote of where / how this is "restricted"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

Usually they put a big red "Restricted" stamp on the license. Then it says something like "reason for issuance: sport/target" on it. The idea is that this is to prevent the user from using it for All Lawful Purposes.

The legality of this is in doubt, however. There's been one case already where the judge blew off the "restrictions."

See these threads:

http://www.masscops.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2687

http://www.masscops.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6606

And definitely read this thread about that judge's ruling:

http://www.masscops.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3389
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

Also, see a couple of the posts in this usenet thread. Here they are so you don't have to dig through that thread:

"Actually, by statute there is just one "kind" of LTC. Your "target & hunting"
LTC is legally valid for concealed carry, protection, etc. This was
made clear by Act 511 signed into law in 1990. However, the chief would
probably revoke your LTC if he found you carrying against the purpose.
(Remember, the chief doesn't need a conviction, or even a good reason
to yank your LTC--just an excuse.) Thus, you wouldn't go to jail if you
were found carrying in a holster under a jacket with a "target" LTC--after
the trial at least; they'd probably arrest you and try to scare the
Jesus out of you before the judge tossed the case out."

"Two cases that have occurred since this law was passed :

a. Individual caught with handgun in passenger compartment of car. Had
target only permit and was arrested (cop asked about guns when LTC was made
visible upon opening wallet - yeah, I know you folks with licenses are
proud of having got one, but one shouldn's flash this fact every tinme
the wallet is opened - though I sees this VERY frequently). The
judge granted a "continuance without a finding" at the trial - this means
that the charges remain pending for a period of time, then go away
without a conviction. In the interim period the person is still
technically charged with a crime which makes it impossible to legally
buy a gun. Defendant's attorney pointed out act 511 of 1990, to no
avail. Oh yeah - the gun was ordered destroyed.

b. Individual with "work only" LTC caught with gun on him outside his
home (investigating some propler or ssimilar situation). Arrested
by Boston PD and convicted for carrying wihtout license. Conviction
set aside when pro-gun attorney advises public defender who lost
case originally about act 511."
 

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Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

JellyFish";p="52154 said:
The issue of "restricted" Class A LTCs

carrying concealed with a Class A LTC that was restricted.

concealed and that that they have a Class A LTC that is restricted to sport/target/whatever.

people stuck with "restricted" LTCs from
Is there literally a "red stamp" they slam down on the lisence saying "restricted"? Who are THEY to modify a lisence? Yes, they're the "issuing authority". Either issue it, or not. Just like a drivers lisence. Either you got it, or you dont.

How many times does a court need to afirm that it is not a RESTRICTION but, as labeled on the card, a 'Reason For Issuing License' which is filled in with the words 'Target/Hunting.'

The REASON I bought my Dodge Ram was for commute to/from work. Then I decide to tow my boat with it (using the vehicle for its maximum use/capacity). How is this different from the Class A? I got it to do target, but its CAPABLE of Concealed Carry... so why not?

Sounds like boston PD needs to be set straight... then again, the Chief could just say 'Fine, nothing higher than an FID for ANYONE"....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

It sort of looks like this but it has red "RESTRICTED" staped in to the background. They do this, as I understand it, because Menino has pressured them to do it or something like that. And probably the chief himself doesn't want ALP licenses released to non-politically-connected people.

 

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Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

To stay with the original question:

No WMS, you walk free like anybody else.
 

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Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

Boston places a red restricted usually on the top of the license. Menino has nothing to do with it Boston has been doiing that since at least the late eighties. Best advice is move to another town rather than trying to change the way BPD licensing works. If you mind your business and dont act like a nitwit having a restricted license will never hurt you. Back to question at hand. If I pulled someone over with a restricted license depending on the circumstances nothing would probably come of it. If the person acted like a complete jackass a letter to the licensing authority would probably be forthcoming.
 

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Re: What would you do to someone with a restricted Class A L

JellyFish";p="52292 said:
Also, see a couple of the posts in this usenet thread. Here they are so you don't have to dig through that thread:

"Actually, by statute there is just one "kind" of LTC. Your "target & hunting"
LTC is legally valid for concealed carry, protection, etc. This was
made clear by Act 511 signed into law in 1990. However, the chief would
probably revoke your LTC if he found you carrying against the purpose.
(Remember, the chief doesn't need a conviction, or even a good reason
to yank your LTC--just an excuse.) Thus, you wouldn't go to jail if you
were found carrying in a holster under a jacket with a "target" LTC--after
the trial at least; they'd probably arrest you and try to scare the
Jesus out of you before the judge tossed the case out."

"Two cases that have occurred since this law was passed :

a. Individual caught with handgun in passenger compartment of car. Had
target only permit and was arrested (cop asked about guns when LTC was made
visible upon opening wallet - yeah, I know you folks with licenses are
proud of having got one, but one shouldn's flash this fact every tinme
the wallet is opened - though I sees this VERY frequently). The
judge granted a "continuance without a finding" at the trial - this means
that the charges remain pending for a period of time, then go away
without a conviction. In the interim period the person is still
technically charged with a crime which makes it impossible to legally
buy a gun. Defendant's attorney pointed out act 511 of 1990, to no
avail. Oh yeah - the gun was ordered destroyed.

b. Individual with "work only" LTC caught with gun on him outside his
home (investigating some propler or ssimilar situation). Arrested
by Boston PD and convicted for carrying wihtout license. Conviction
set aside when pro-gun attorney advises public defender who lost
case originally about act 511."
If your refering to "Commonwealth v. Lilley" the case was dismissed because any sane person knows you cannot restrict a class A license. The reason for applying is just that, the reason. You can't add a sticker to it and call it a restriction. If there was a field that said "RESTRICTED USE" then it would be a different story.

-- Joe
 

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I actually have a restricted Class A LTC from Boston. Iam hoping then when I renew in Melrose they will lift the restriction. Anyone here know if Melrose only issues Class A with no restrictions?
 

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Enforcer174 said:
I actually have a restricted Class A LTC from Boston. Iam hoping then when I renew in Melrose they will lift the restriction. Anyone here know if Melrose only issues Class A with no restrictions?
Packing.org takes info from what people have gotten before. Boston is a Black community: Almost imposible to get Class A ALP.... melrose is a Green community, "Will issue Class A ALP

There is also Red, which is May be difficult to obtaion Class-A ALP...

Its not to say this is cut and dry, but looks like you have a lot better chance of it in Melrose. Good luck!
http://www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/
 

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I thinK this was discussed in another thread

A district court judge threw out a charge of an individual arrested by a MST for having
a restricted license to carry class A. The judge stated either you have a class A or you dont have a class A. Your either licensed or your not licensed. However, "The People's Fascist Autoritarian State Of Boston still stamps a Red Communist Restricted on your LTC A.

Simply stated have a nice day!! Unless he or she is a student at the college then all bets are off =; [-X :handcuff:
 

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Why is it restricted and what is the restriction?

If you have no issues, then Melrose will issue you a regular CL A LTC.

Complements of a Melrose Officer
 

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Boston just puts a big red RESTRICTED, and for "reason of issuance":Target and Huntring Only.

They are trying to stop Concealed carrying on a Class A.

Judges all over the state have ruled that such is not possible, becasue MGL does not have any "restrictions" built into them. Either you have a class-A, or not. It doesnt matter why you wanted the Class-A, it doesnt matter why they gave you a Class-A. If you have a class-A, you Can conceal carry.

Like a drivers license, a Class-A is a Class-A is a Class-A. You may have gotten your DL for driving to school. Now you deliver newspapers. RMV cant say "nope".. Neither can Boston PD about one's LTC.
 

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Curious EMT said:
Boston just puts a big red RESTRICTED, and for "reason of issuance":Target and Huntring Only.

They are trying to stop Concealed carrying on a Class A.

Judges all over the state have ruled that such is not possible, becasue MGL does not have any "restrictions" built into them. Either you have a class-A, or not. It doesnt matter why you wanted the Class-A, it doesnt matter why they gave you a Class-A. If you have a class-A, you Can conceal carry.

Like a drivers license, a Class-A is a Class-A is a Class-A. You may have gotten your DL for driving to school. Now you deliver newspapers. RMV cant say "nope".. Neither can Boston PD about one's LTC.
Agreed. However, be careful in what you do. If the Chief says " target and hunting only" and someone sees you & your .44 Magnum strapped to your belt while in aisle 5 at the Shaw's or out to dinner with the wife and 2.5 kids (you think nobody would do that-wrong!) and calls the PD, the Chief can turn around and revoke said permit for unsuitability.:beat: It is his discretion. I have seen it done. No part of the Class A law mandates concealed carry either. Some are actually walking around in the open or so loosely concealed that Ray Charles could see it.
 

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You are absolutetly correct USMC Trooper.

Unrestriced here... :D

Then again, if ANY CLEO finds out you were not so careful and your people-slaughter-machine is seen in Stop & Shop, he'll probably revoke it anyways.
 

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As a former licensing officer and holder of both a Class A and Class E permit I wanted to add the following.

The circumstances dictate everything in the case of stopping a restricted LTC. If you're an asshole, I take your gun, your permit, call the issuing dept. and advise them, then send everything along with a letter to the issuing authority. If you're respectful, appear competant, and not carrying in an unsafe manner then you go bye bye.

We all know there are goofballs that will try something, but if the situation is that drastic chances are they are unsuitable anyways. A CWOF is enough to refuse issuance. With a CWOF you admit to sufficient facts (enough that the case could've gone forward) and thereby if the charge warrants denying the permit then bye bye permit.

My Chief issues ALP's only. No Class B's and no restrictions. If you legally qualify for a permit than you issue an ALP. With the suitability thing you have more of a hold over an ALP holder anyways. You also lesson the difficulties your street officers deal with when encountering a restricted license.

Hope this helps.
 

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Curious EMT said:
What does being a college student have to do with anything?
I believe he is reffering to this:

MGL Ch 269 § 10 (j)

(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, ""firearm'' shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.
Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.
 
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