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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Kinda slow today, so I thought I'd pose this little "off-the-wall" question for all you guys (and gals) ........

I like to work out probably 5 - 6 times a week, and I also travel a bit. When I travel, one of my difficulties is finding a place to work out, preferably a cheap or free place, rather that going to a commercial gym and paying $20 for a guest pass just to use the gym for a couple of hours. So I often stop by the local law enforcement agency, ID myself as a cop from elsewhere, and ask if they have a small gym and if I could use it; and maybe also if they have a computer I can use to access my e-mail. Now, as a Sergeant and shift supervisor where I work, I'd have no problem granting such a request if it was made to me. But about 50% of the time, I'm told by other agencies that they can't (or won't) let me use the gym (or the computer, even when I promise I won't go to any inappropriate websites) and they typically make some vague comment about "liability", that I might get hurt in their gym. And these are often agencies that have no problem taking civilians on "ride-a-longs" in their cruisers. Just seems kind of strange to me. (On the other hand, the other 50% of the time, I get a friendly wave, a come on in, our house is your house attitude, what's thing's like where you work, how much do you get paid, etc etc etc .... which is more what I'd expect.)

So, if I happened on by YOUR Department, with a similar request, what do you think the answer would be, and why?
 

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I have seen both sides of that situation involving the use of other "facilities" in a PD, namely the hopper. Not my PD, but others that will go unnamed. I would side with professional courtesy if it was my decision, but piss ons like me dont have a say. I have seen cops from other states using our gym as well, a change of faces around the PD, especially a friendly one that is on the job, is always nice to see.
 

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Chapter 90 Enforcer
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I'd say... "If you wanna piss, there's the Hopper. If you wanna work out, you're shit out of luck - we ain't got a gym here."
 

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I agree with RPD931, If you want to use my head, your more then welcome. We have other agencies use our head all the time, but we don't have a gym either; I wish we did. You are welcome to come by any time.
 

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I just have to ask, don't civilian ride-a-longs have to sign, basically, their life away before they do the ride-a-long? I know lifting weights and doing a ride-a-long is different, but they do sign a waiver, I beleive. That would cover the PDs ass incase anything happened, whereas with you using their gym, they wouldn't be covered. Just my 2cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
badogg88 said:
I just have to ask, don't civilian ride-a-longs have to sign, basically, their life away before they do the ride-a-long? I know lifting weights and doing a ride-a-long is different, but they do sign a waiver, I beleive. That would cover the PDs ass incase anything happened, whereas with you using their gym, they wouldn't be covered. Just my 2cents.
Yes, that's true about the ride-a-long waiver. I actually had one Watch Commander at a PD I visited that pulled out a ride-along waiver form, crossed out the "ride-a-long" verbage and wrote in "use the station gym", had me sign it and then pointed me down the hall at their little weight room, and said "have a good time". Seemed a reasonable solution. I imagine he just tore it up and threw it away when I walked out of there an hour later, sweaty but none the worse for wear.

You know, the "sub-thread" here to this whole topic comes back to professional courtesy. And while I certainly don't want to beat that dead horse, it just seems that it would not (should not) be a big deal to let another copper, visiting from ANYWHERE, use your gym, or computer, or bunk room, or whatever. (Within reason, of course.) But I also know that professional courtesy is not now, what it was 30 years ago when I first became a cop. And I find that pretty sad.
 

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Wouldn't verification be an issue? Some yahoos like to "play cop". They could go use the gym then when no one looking try to do things less then appropriate. I know who would do a thing like that?
 

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Mortal knight said:
Wouldn't verification be an issue? Some yahoos like to "play cop". They could go use the gym then when no one looking try to do things less then appropriate. I know who would do a thing like that?
I was just going to say that about the verification. PO IDs arent' THAT hard to fake, especially out of state or even out of town that the other PD doesn't recognize.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
badogg88 said:
I was just going to say that about the verification. PO IDs arent' THAT hard to fake, especially out of state or even out of town that the other PD doesn't recognize.
War story: Once upon a time, 20 somethin years ago, I had a trainee, and we were patrolling around in a very high crime neighborhood, on graveyard shift. Stopped a guy who we saw driving around and around the same couple of blocks several times, very slowly; it just looked suspicious. I let my trainee do the approach and talk to the guy, while I hung back to watch, cover, and see how he handled it. Turns out the guy ID's himself as a cop from some place far far away, small midwest PD, as I recall. And says he has a gun under his seat. (This was way before HR218.) Turns out he was lost, visiting the area, looking to find an address of an old relative, which we ultimately directed him to. But my Trainee starts agonizing over the gun he's got, being it is technically a crime, pre-HR218. And his main point of agony is "how do we know he is really a cop, how do we know his ID isn't fake?" My answer was simply a couple of questions, "Does his badge/ID look real? Does he talk, act, look like a cop? Use your gut instinct, Trainee, and make a command decision." His decison was that he believed he was a real cop, but didn't like him having a gun with him. I had already decided he was indeed a real cop, gave him directions to where he was going, gave him his gun back, and told him to have anice night. Then I had a long talk with my Trainee about professional courtesy and how to treat other cops, regardless of where they worked or came from. I also asked him if HE would travel in this neighborhood without a gun (he said no, of course).... and then asked him why he should expect some other cop to do otherwise.

The point of the story is this: If you've been a cop longer than it takes to get off training or probation, you should have the ability to look at a Police ID, talk to the guy possessing it for five minutes, and make an accurate assessment of whether or not he is for real. And if you are still not sure, and were still worried about it, you could call his Dept and ask someone there to verify employment. Seems pretty simple to me.
 

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msw,

Before Ch. 180 (Acts of 1998 ) was passed, it was legal for any LEO (any state/Fed/muni/etc.) to CCW in MA. They did NOT have to be on duty, they didn't need any letter or anything else. I learned this from Mas Ayoob (Capt. Grantham, NH PD, owner of LFI and LE instructor) at a seminar I attended in the late 1980s . . . I was a little surprised and went back and researched it after Mas and I discussed the matter.

Under the same law, MA LEOs did not need a LTC and could carry anything that they wanted to "on the badge" even off-duty, without permission.

In 1998 all that changed and now LE are only exempt here (legally) if "authorized" (including authorization to carry the particular gun). By the law, it is a lot more tricky today than it was pre-1998, but common sense and professional courtesy should still cover most cases.
 

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We let the pd use our can if they need it no problem. Or they can just come by for a soda and shoot the breeze. Were on the oppiset end of town from their station so it is nice to have a close by head when there is alot traffic and the monkey wants out of the cage. :monkeyea:
 

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Thread Killa
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I was once allowed to use the bathroom at a police department.
Past that if you want to use a gym, pay the coin.
 

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LenS said:
msw,

Before Ch. 180 (Acts of 1998 ) was passed, it was legal for any LEO (any state/Fed/muni/etc.) to CCW in MA. They did NOT have to be on duty, they didn't need any letter or anything else. I learned this from Mas Ayoob (Capt. Grantham, NH PD, owner of LFI and LE instructor) at a seminar I attended in the late 1980s . . . I was a little surprised and went back and researched it after Mas and I discussed the matter.

Under the same law, MA LEOs did not need a LTC and could carry anything that they wanted to "on the badge" even off-duty, without permission.

In 1998 all that changed and now LE are only exempt here (legally) if "authorized" (including authorization to carry the particular gun). By the law, it is a lot more tricky today than it was pre-1998, but common sense and professional courtesy should still cover most cases.
I have let other PD's and even security departments come on in & use the hopper at my station. As long as they are good guys and don't s#it on the seat, what the hell do I care? If you gotta' go, you gotta' go, right??

As for the gym we have, we have to sign a waiver ourselves before we get to lift a weight. Yeah, imagine that, a guy that works there has to waive his right to work out. And these are the very same people that wanted to put a "Health & Wellness" clause in our contract.

I'd be very wary about out of state LE. I have heard horror stories from all over & have seen some of the stuff selling on Ebay and with computers nowadays, even you can be Billy Bratton, for a price $$.

LenS
As for Massad Ayoob, AKA Massad IamAboob we all know his story. He's an Auxiliary Captain in a 2 horse town in NH. It's kind of like being the "Marshal of Buzzy's Roast Beef." We all read the LE mags he's prominantly displayed in too. Anybody who wears 4 guns and 3 knives secreted on his body at any given time is a MAJOR TOOL in my book. He may run a school for LE and F/A training but we all know he's a sham.
 

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HousingCop said:
LenS
As for Massad Ayoob, AKA Massad IamAboob we all know his story. He's an Auxiliary Captain in a 2 horse town in NH. It's kind of like being the "Marshal of Buzzy's Roast Beef." We all read the LE mags he's prominantly displayed in too. Anybody who wears 4 guns and 3 knives secreted on his body at any given time is a MAJOR TOOL in my book. He may run a school for LE and F/A training but we all know he's a sham.
Hey, don't knock Buzzy's Roast Beef! :)

I know that many don't hold Mas in high regard, but that is irrelevant to my point about the law allowing out-of-state LEOs to CCW in MA per MGL (before HR218). I did independently verify his info after he told me about the law (this was in late 1980s IIRC). Ref: Ch. 140 S. 131G

I think that I drove thru Grantham, NH last year . . . and it was over in 2 blinks, but there are MANY towns that have only PT LE in most all states. I recall a former co-worker telling me that he hit a dog in Rowe MA and called the PD to report it . . . got the Chief's Wife who took the info and told him that she'd tell her Husband when he got home from work . . . his FT job was in the paper mill! I also recall the mid 1980s when my friend Cliff Keeling was Chief in Topsfield, MA . . . Cliff told me that his handful of FT POs worked during the week and his Special POs worked the weekend shifts. Different world than the bigger towns/cities that most of us are used to, but they are all cops!

I don't know how many guns Mas carries and I've never taken any of his courses. I hear that LFI I is excellent, but after reading a review of his super LFI (LFI 4 IIRC) course, I lost a lot of respect for him. A review of said course stated that he had a pint of blood drawn on one of the students one time and injected some drug (stimulant IIRC) in a student another time to demonstrate the point about how these things effect responses to stress, etc. Sorry, I see these actions as very irresponsible for an instructor to use!

In my 18 years with the PD as a Special PO, I only knew of 1 officer who CCW'd off-duty. Most wouldn't even carry a gun on duty if they could get away with it (and one Lt who later became chief didn't carry ever). As someone who believes that every PO "wears a target on their back" for some dirtbag that "just hates cops", I think that it is stupid for officers to "go naked" off duty . . . just in case someone s/he arrested recognizes him/her outside the job! But again, this is irrelevant to the point I was making.
 
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HousingCop said:
As for Massad Ayoob, AKA Massad IamAboob we all know his story. He's an Auxiliary Captain in a 2 horse town in NH. It's kind of like being the "Marshal of Buzzy's Roast Beef." We all read the LE mags he's prominantly displayed in too. Anybody who wears 4 guns and 3 knives secreted on his body at any given time is a MAJOR TOOL in my book. He may run a school for LE and F/A training but we all know he's a sham.
I couldn't agree more.

As for letting other cops use our facilities, sure, why not? I'd check their ID, then call the PD to make sure they're legit. If they are, they have the run of the station. We've let other agencies use our bathrooms, showers, weight room, store weapons in our armory, and gassed their vehicles.

If we can't take care of our own, who else is going to?
 

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Shots Fired!

Who's knockin' the good Ol' Buzzy's Roast Beef? That place was home of the Finest Gourmet Cuisine... If you didn't mind the after-taste... or the unsanitary facilities. :lol: Mmmm Yummy!
 

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So, if I happened on by YOUR Department, with a similar request, what do you think the answer would be, and why?
We'd tell you to screw. You gotta be kidding me, are you for real. Asking to come in and use the Gym and computers. You can't be a cop.
 
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popo said:
We'd tell you to screw. You gotta be kidding me, are you for real. Asking to come in and use the Gym and computers. You can't be a cop.
Cops don't use gyms or computers? That's new to me.
 
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j809 said:
You don't come in and use other's stuff.
It's called professional courtesy. Why should I care if a cop from California is working out next to me in the gym? I'd enjoy swapping war stories.
 
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