Massachusetts Cop Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
State and Community College Police Officers: (Especially Fitchburg State)

Name one thing that your current union has done for you as a Police Officer? This is an open forum.....please nobody bash each other.

It is a serious question because I know they haven't done anything for me or my Department besides take my dues and ensure that I have sub-standard pay. If you believe that we belong with the clerks and maintainers give us reasons why. Because the are a million why we shouldn't.

#11
 

·
Retired Fed, Active Special
Joined
·
8,658 Posts
Hee Hee!

We are meeting with Bill Fisher CPO I/EMT-I/AFSCME Unit II Chief Steward/Campus Police Contract Negotiating Representative (Whew!) and VP Chris Wilkins about what we would like to see in the new contract.
:lol:
Oh, BTW............................
The Council 93 entity and Local 1067 Chief steward have already bailed out of the meeting.
:wink:

Will be glad to report on how the meeting goes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Still picking of FSC just because we don't want to join your club?? Why do you have to make it so personal? We read your info, we listened. Even our AFSCME rep sent us copies of all your info and emails. We talked about it and decided that we are not interested. Why is this so hard for you to understand? We didn't pick on you or bother you, but you insist on emailing us all and posting stuff like this. You're getting more and more condescending and aggressive and honestly, I'm a little offended. Take the hint... Go Away. I'm all for a police union, but this is a bad idea.

And if you really must know what we have done on our own by standing up for our selves and putting together well though out and thorough proposals, with the backing of AFSCME.

We went up a pay grade and step last year, 50% increase in shift diff. $700 clothing allowance (yes we're armed) They helped us when we wanted to address the fact that our Chief and Captain are both raging a-holes. They sat in on mediated meetings between the officers and the admin. Once again, that isn't a union issue, it's a personal issue and we had to do it ourselves. They helped us plan and sat in on the meetings and made sure nothing contractual was changed. As far as making your department better. They back us on everything we said we wanted to do, we just had to have some spine and make it happen. Guns aren't in a contract, you have to explain to the liberal yahoos why you need them. put together a good presentation. Get documentation and crime stats.

You can't put in a contract that people have to be nice to you and care about you. What you can do is address the negative work environment with your supervisors and bring a union rep with you to make sure you don't get punished for speaking out. We've done that and it worked. Why would we want to change to a smaller, lower funded, less experienced union when what we have is working fine?

Like I said, it's working for us and we're not interested. I personally don't care what you do but leave me out of it. I'm not trying to slow you down. Why do you insist on dragging us into it?

Grow up.

And tell that lawyer to stop email me and calling me a janitor.

Posted Thu 22 Jul, 2004 14:07:

Hee Hee!

We are meeting with Bill Fisher CPO I/EMT-I/AFSCME Unit II Chief Steward/Campus Police Contract Negotiating Representative (Whew!) and VP Chris Wilkins about what we would like to see in the new contract.
:lol:
Oh, BTW............................
The Council 93 entity and Local 1067 Chief steward have already bailed out of the meeting.
:wink:

Will be glad to report on how the meeting goes
It doesn't sound like you're going in open minded... Bill's a good guy, really. tell him what you want to see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Still picking of FSC just because we don't want to join your club?? Why do you have to make it so personal? We read your info, we listened. Even our AFSCME rep sent us copies of all your info and emails. We talked about it and decided that we are not interested. Why is this so hard for you to understand? We didn't pick on you or bother you, but you insist on emailing us all and posting stuff like this. You're getting more and more condescending and aggressive and honestly, I'm a little offended. Take the hint... Go Away. I'm all for a police union, but this is a bad idea.

And if you really must know what we have done on our own by standing up for our selves and putting together well though out and thorough proposals, with the backing of AFSCME.

We went up a pay grade and step last year, 50% increase in shift diff. $700 clothing allowance (yes we're armed) They helped us when we wanted to address the fact that our Chief and Captain are both raging a-holes. They sat in on mediated meetings between the officers and the admin. Once again, that isn't a union issue, it's a personal issue and we had to do it ourselves. They helped us plan and sat in on the meetings and made sure nothing contractual was changed. As far as making your department better. They back us on everything we said we wanted to do, we just had to have some spine and make it happen. Guns aren't in a contract, you have to explain to the liberal yahoos why you need them. put together a good presentation. Get documentation and crime stats.

You can't put in a contract that people have to be nice to you and care about you. What you can do is address the negative work environment with your supervisors and bring a union rep with you to make sure you don't get punished for speaking out. We've done that and it worked. Why would we want to change to a smaller, lower funded, less experienced union when what we have is working fine?

Like I said, it's working for us and we're not interested. I personally don't care what you do but leave me out of it. I'm not trying to slow you down. Why do you insist on dragging us into it?

Grow up.

And tell that lawyer to stop email me and calling me a janitor.

Posted Thu 22 Jul, 2004 14:07:

Hee Hee!

We are meeting with Bill Fisher CPO I/EMT-I/AFSCME Unit II Chief Steward/Campus Police Contract Negotiating Representative (Whew!) and VP Chris Wilkins about what we would like to see in the new contract.
:lol:
Oh, BTW............................
The Council 93 entity and Local 1067 Chief steward have already bailed out of the meeting.
:wink:

Will be glad to report on how the meeting goes
It doesn't sound like you're going in open minded... Bill's a good guy, really. tell him what you want to see.
Nobody is bashing anyone here. All we are trying to do is gain more support for MCLEA. If you don't want to be a part of it then don't. But stop accusing everyone of bashing Fitchburg State because nobody is doing that.

furthermore who is Bill Fisher? I have never even heard of him until
this whole thing started and then we get an email saying he is the
campus police negotiations rep! So I guess that means he is the rep
for the cops of AFSCME? That's interesting that he's OUR rep and
many people that I have talked to have never heard of him!! That tells me a lot about OUR
representation. If I was the rep for the cops of AFSCME I would make
damn sure that I was well known and available to be contacted and
checking in with the other colleges to see what they want me to
bargain for. This poor representation from just shows how much we need MCLEA.

And what about our retro pay? If the Commonwealth only had to pay 200
people retro pay instead of 2000 maybe we would have our money by now!!
Just something to think about!

This is why we support MCLEA! You can read on if you want, its just my opinion and note that not once do I "bash" AFSCME or Fitchburg State

Nobody here is anti AFSCME. AFSCME is a fine union and extremely well
known. The problem with being a member of AFSCME is that Police
Officers make up a very small part of the membership. As you know the
majority of AFSCME members are maintainers and janitors. Police
Officers are unique and have completely different needs than those
who make up the majority of AFSCME.

I compare colleges to towns. Towns are made up of Police Departments,
Fire Departments, DPW's and School Departments. As we all know Police
Officers and DPW workers have separate unions because they have
completely different needs, just like teachers have separate unions
because they have different needs. It's the same on college campuses.
We are police Officers; we should not be in the same union as the
facilities workers who can be compared to the towns DPW workers.
That's why the faculty members are not in AFSCME because they have
different needs than both facilities and us. How can AFSCME really
fight for the tools that Police Officers need? How can AFSCME fairly
represent us when they have no knowledge of what it means to be a
Police Officer and why would they even want to because we make up
such a small amount of their union?

MCLEA would be our own union. An association just for State College
Police Officers, nobody else. Brian has stressed over and over again
that this is "OUR" union, we make the decisions on what we want, not
some janitor. There are so many positives that can come out of
forming this association. Just think of how much better it would be
to have someone that is bargaining for the needs of Police Officers
only! Think of how much easier it would be if we wanted a pay raise
or more equipment, or anything for that matter! I'm sure the
Commonwealth and the Board of Higher Ed would be much more willing to
listen to 200 people wanting more money, more equipment or more
incentives than 2000 people!

This would be "our" union, so what you as a cop want, you ask and
we as a group will bargain for it. Not to mention a connection to a network
of attorneys who specialize in labor law and union issues along with
attorneys who specialize in defending Police Officers who are sued on
the job. I really don't think they could ever
provide us with all that!

Like I said support us or don't thats your choice, but lets at the very least try to be mature about this whole thing. I have never heard anyone "bash" Fitchburg State or AFSCME. Maybe people disagree with you for wanting to stay with AFSCME but they are certainly entitled to their opinions as you are. Maybe Fitchburg State is a squared away armed department and gets everything they ask for but just keep in mind that some other departments may not get what they want, and thats what this is all about. Trying to improve overall working conditions for all fellow Police Officers who are employed by the Commonwealth!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Whoa Whoa Whoa Fitchburg. Nobody was picking on you. I was just asking a question hence the "no bashing" line. Obviously you are not mature enough to engage in a conversation about this subject.

Throwing insults like calling MCLEA your "CLUB" around really shows how much research you guys have really done. Can we call AFSCME your "CLUB" or wait.......it's not YOUR club it's the janitors club that's right. At least MCLEA would be our own.

And by the way when was Fisher voted in?? We should start a poll here and see what departments actually had a vote in that.

If you guys don't want to be in a Police union then so be it. You can just come along for the ride.

#11
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Look I don't know who you people are and I really don't care. All I know is that members of my department keep getting emails from this Brian guy who insists on emailing each of us personally even after repeated requests to stop. We all said a while ago that we are not interested but I keep getting emails telling me that unless I support you people I will never amount to anything but a janitor. Like you called it "the janitor's club"

I know that today I got another email from this guy and I said I'm not interested please don't email me. Then I get another email calling me a janitor and an uninformed idiot. (he didn't use the word idiot) and that he can email me if he wants to it's not against the law. I replied and said that's nice stop bothering me. Not 1 hour later I see a post on MassCops that says "tell me one good thing.. etc (especially Fitchburg State)"

I think we made it clear that we want to be left alone, you keep saying "If you guys don't want to be in a Police union then so be it." so let it be already, and stop antagonizing.

The janitor references are very mature. Oh and by the way, the union posted the position of contract negotiator for unit 2 and a guy who happens to be a cop ran and since he was unopposed he got it. Your problem is with your stewards not the union. If they were paying attention, or if you talked to them you would have know and you could have run. If you want to do it then do it. If you don’t like your stewards at your college then run against them and do it your self. If you want to know who Bill is then call or email him. If you don’t know the number then talk to your union steward because I saw him send an email to every steward in mass telling them to forward it to the Campus Police with all his contact info and what he was going to do.

FSC is not an easy department that gets every thing it wants. It’s hard work and we get little respect from our own admin and we have to work hard to get them to support us. But those aren’t union issues, they are personal issues but we stick together and work hard. If your union rep won’t work hard for you then run against them and work hard your self. It is what you make it. It doesn’t just do it all for you.

I realize that the first post may have seemed really out of context to most of you, but Bill Johnson and this Brian guy have been going back and forth with lost of us after repeated request to just leave us out of it. They keep looking up officer’s email on the internet and emailing each of us and telling us to join or we’ll just wait away in janitor-vill. When we tell them we are not interested it’s like they take it as a personal attack and start up with these childish responses like what has the janitors union ever done for you huh? That is why this post struck such a chord. It was less then an hour after my last email to Brian asking him to stop emailing me.

Like I said I don’t care what you guys do, but please afford us the same courtesy.

Thanks.

mpd61, How did the meeting go?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Hey FSCPD....you grow up pal. All I hear is you whining about getting a couple of emails offering you information on an association If your not interested, which obviously your not then great, hit delete like the rest of the email you don't want to read.

Please don't continue to bitch about being given a choice on who to support...what is the big deal? You guys at Fitchburg want to back your man and everyone can appreciate that but don't be surprised when everyone else in the state system doesn't want to just back Fisher because he was the only "steward" to offer to take the job....state college cops are sick and tired of being treated like the wicked stepchild of this union and have been asking their stewards for a long time for a voice that has never been heard.

The references to janitors and facilities personnel is just a round about way of saying that many of us don't understand why a police officer would not want to stand alone with other cops...what do you think some of the big city and town police agencies on this site would say if the executive board of their association (and by the way a lot of departments are getting away from all national unions like IBPO/FOP because they don't focus on their local agendas and concerns) proposed that they merge with the local DPW union because "there's strength in numbers".....most cops want to be a part of something that is a brotherhood of officers, not a majority of civilians with a few cops in the mix.

We'll see what ends up happening. In the end, all the officers in the state and community college system will have their chance to make the decision (if the Labor Relations Commission rules that an election should be held)....I honestly hope that whoever prevails, all the state and community college cops get the best because they deserve it and it's long overdue! I haven't seen this much energy on this topic in almost six years...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
The members of the Massachusetts College Law Enforcement Association (MCLEA) respect the decision of the officers of Fitchburg State College not to support MCLEA and to support AFSCME. Although, for numerous reasons, we strongly disagree with this decision, we respect it. No good can come from continuing this controversy. At least we can agree to disagree.

Regarding our attorney: Brian received one request to stop e-mailing an individual. He will absolutely honor that request. He did not get repeated requests. He also never said that anyone would “amount to anything but a janitor.” His own father was a janitor.

We will never be in agreement with Fitchburg State on the AFSCME vs. MCLEA issue, and future discussions between FSC and MCLEA would be counterproductive. Although we can't agree on the union issue, we are willing to agree with FSC to end this debate. MCLEA wishes the Officers of Fitchburg State College the very best of luck with their choice of bargaining representatives.

For those of you who might not be familiar with MCLEA, it is a group of Massachusetts Public College Police Officers who believe that police officers belong in a police union. We are trying to break away from AFSCME and form our own local (statewide) police association. As you can see, not all officers agree with this move. After 29 years of AFSCME representation, we feel that we would be better served by our own union. If you would like more information about MCLEA, please send a private message.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
I have been a very unsatisfied ASFCME member for over five years and I find it disheartening that the ONLY time they seem to care about our membership is when they collect our dues. The only benefit we seem to get is a dumb ASFCME magazine in our mailbox with stories about nurses and steel workers.

ASFCME has never communicated with members of our Department about our needs or feelings in regards to union business. I feel that a select few ASFCME Stewards make decisions for the entire union with little or no input from the dues paying members.

To all the Fitchburg State College Officers: Its great you have Ptl. Fisher to fight for your Departments needs but the majority of us have no one fighting for our needs as Police Officers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I am more then happy to agree to disagree.
Informational email is fine, in fact it's great. Info is always good. I get personal emails from people trying to argue that my opinion is wrong. Why do you all care so much? So I don't agree with you. Who cares? move on. Stop writing me emails about your opinions.
I'm not complaining about the choice, it's the way it's being forced on me. It's like when someone offers you mashed potatoes and you say "no thanks" that's the end of it. Now every one is standing in front of me with a bowl of mashed potatoes saying "Eat it! How can you not like mashed potatoes? what's wrong with you? Eat it you'll like it!"
I don't want any.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore this is stupid I think we can all agree that no good will come of any of this. If no one will help you then be your own rep and help your self. I notice no one here has tried being the rep for their dept...
Bottom line, I don't care what you do as long as you stop trying to force it on me. I'm not pro AFSCME I think a janitor's union is odd and out of place too. I just don't happen to agree with MCLEA either.

Lets all just move on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I agree to move on.....

But let's not sit here and make uninformed opinions....

How do you know that nobody has tried to be a rep for their department. In fact we have. The union never returns calls and it seems like everytime we grieve something nothing happens with it at all. Again you say that it's not a union problem.....it's a department problem. I feel like it is a union problem because when you have problems with your department the union should take a stance and assist you if deemed necessary.

And you say "I don't know who you people are" we are your Brother and Sister Campus P.O's. I have nothing against Fitchburg or anyone else who doesn't agree...this topic was created to lay some facts out on the line to give people an objective look at what AFSCME has done for the past 30 years. So people can weigh the good and the bad with both choices for their representation for the next three years. I still haven't seen any facts about AFSCME that would make me change my mind. The only thing so far that I have seen was the pay raise which would 99.9% of the time come standard with any new contract negotiation.

I know when it comes down to it we all want the best contract and representation for Campus Police Officers. In closing I would like to apologize if you thought that I was picking on Fitchburg State because that is not the case at all. Your Department has been the most vocal in disapproval of MCLEA so I just wanted to get some information from you guys on why you think it is such a bad idea. I know all of the e-mails that I have received from the MCLEA mailing list have been informative and not threatening at all. I am sorry if you feel like you have been threatened. Like I said.......just come along for the ride.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
502 Posts
I think this is an appropriate topic for me to chime in on. First off, kudos to you guys for starting MCLEA its definilty a good concept. Infact I with a few Boston area colleges though about doing this and even attempted to do this 3 years ago.

I will state my oppinon to you guys here though and im sorry if you find this negative.

I think you guys made a bad decision to start this the way you did. Althouh the concept is good, had you started it with Private colleges first you would have gotten the backing (Financially and man power) that you would need to fight the fight with the State Schools.

The way I understand the Labor Law and the differences with Private Vs State Schools mostly falls under the Taft Hartly Act with some under the NLRA. Had you followed my suggested course of action, you would have only the task of making a majority vote in 1 department rather than the burden of all state college employees.

Now to pitch this idea, you could have gained 200-300 members easily then when you went and pitched it to the state schools, you not only would have that many dues paying members, you could have said "Look what we got so and so".

The problem with my idea is the fact that you cannot be affiliated with an AFL/CIO larger organization. So it has its ups and downs.

So just my two cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
We did not have the time to approach private schools and, as you stated, G.L. c. 150E (the public sector labor law) does not apply to private schools. Also, there are some instances where public employees may have some conflicts with their private sector counterparts.

We had to carefully hurry because of what is known as the "contract bar." There are only a few periods in which the Labor Relations Commission will entertain a petition. If we did not act when we did, the contract bar would have prohibited us from acting for almost three years. The contract bar basically blocks the acceptance of petitions during the term of a contract (usually three years). This means that if our petition will be rejected if is not filed before negotiations are completed. MCLEA's members do not want another three years of AFSCME representation.

There is some private sector interest in forming local associations and MCLEA may be interested in working with officers from the private schools at some level. We confront many of the same issues.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
4,316 Posts
You can tell FSCPD is the pimp for AFSCME. Hey , it would be nice to carry firearms in that Fitchburg ghetto. Why such a turnover there, is it because management sucks so much and you do nothing to stand up for your rights. Stick with you janitors and keep drinking coffee together. Don't forget to check your mop on your cruiser checklist before you go out on detex rounds.

I worked for a state college PD and I loved it, especially because we were all on the same ball game and got things done. We weeded out the AFSCME whores and accomplished things without them, while they checked doors we were making arrests and got armed within a year. If you sit on your ass and do nothing, change will never come. MCLEA is the best things and closest thing that will come to reality and give this job the credit it deserves. Many PDs have associations instead of unions with the same bargaining power and protection of a union. Actually I would have to say that the departments I have see with associations are doing better than regular unions(i.e. IBPO). Perfect example, SPAM.

P.S. Don't be a p*ssy! Change is good, be a man!!
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
502 Posts
MCLEA @ Fri 23 Jul said:
We did not have the time to approach private schools and, as you stated, G.L. c. 150E (the public sector labor law) does not apply to private schools. Also, there are some instances where public employees may have some conflicts with their private sector counterparts.

We had to carefully hurry because of what is known as the "contract bar." There are only a few periods in which the Labor Relations Commission will entertain a petition. If we did not act when we did, the contract bar would have prohibited us from acting for almost three years. The contract bar basically blocks the acceptance of petitions during the term of a contract (usually three years). This means that if our petition will be rejected if is not filed before negotiations are completed. MCLEA's members do not want another three years of AFSCME representation. .
I dont want to preach here but I have started a union and the most important thing I have learned is things like this take time and forthought. It sounds to me like you jumped the gun alittle too soon and probly should have taken the 3 extra years to work on the structure and principals and worked out a plan of attack. My oppinion again.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
288 Posts
In response to FSCPD's comment(s).. I do not appreciate my name being thrown around within this forum. When I approached Fitchburg State, in regards to MCLEA , I was advised as to why the officers did not believe MCLEA was for them. I left it at that. No further emails or "harassment" took place. In the future make sure your information is correct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
"It's like when someone offers you mashed potatoes and you say "no thanks" that's the end of it. Now every one is standing in front of me with a bowl of mashed potatoes saying "Eat it! How can you not like mashed potatoes? what's wrong with you? Eat it you'll like it!"
I don't want any."


..........................................are you sure?? [-o<
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I agree completely with Union1. I don't disagree with the idea of a police union. I just feel like this is being rushed way to fast. There should be a little more forethought and some more solid information to back up a good plan. Do we know how much money we need to run a union? so how many people will we have? so what should the dues be? Do we have a proposed contract started? There should be something so we don't have to start from scratch AFTER the union is formed. It just sounds a little too thrown together. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am please share some of the specifics to help support your claim of "it will be better this way, trust me" I'd like to but I've been told that before. I'd like some solid facts and number to make an informed decision. The reason I have said I'm not for this cause is I have yet to get solid facts just claims of sunny skies and telling me how bad I have it now.

j809, Why so angry? You have proven nothing about your argument or your abilities. Only that you posses the ability to lose your temper. This is what worries me about MCLEA. I keep hearing from people with nothing but bad things to say in outbursts of anger and I am afraid that if the people leading the movement are this unstable and short fused I don't want to be associated with them. I hope this is not true and that it is only a vocal few who act this way.
Don't talk to me about standing up and making change. If you had any idea of the things we've been through and the changes we've made and continue to make, and the things I've done in the past years... or about my life and me as a person. Your ignorant out burst is most unbecomeing.
By the way we are armed in this ghetto, and we do work together and we do get things done, and who does detex rounds anymore? Do you make these staments from knowledge or assumptions? Besides I thought we weren’t bashing here. But I feel this argument is wasted on deaf ears.

Maybe I do like mashed potatoes, just not the instant kind.

I thought we were moving on from picking on each other, no good will come of this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't thinks this has been rushed. The documentation that came out was well thought out and planned. Do you guys really think people who organized this were like "hey the AFSCME union contract is up next month......let's start a union." Really guys you only cheated yourselfs by not getting to the meeting. By taking a hard stance saying "No way what we have now is fine" was completely wrong to do. If you were at the meetings you could have asked your questions and they would have been answered.

You guys who are against this idea seem really smart it's to bad that you guys can't come on board and find out what MCLEA can do for US. I know you would be an asset to the union. The time is now......we have legal assistance......experience with POLICE union issues. C'mon now these guys feel like we are getting a raw deal and are helping us for free.

Ask your questions or get to a meeting! Your dental/vision one was already answered.

SSPO#11
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
2,280 Posts
FSCPD I would like to know what AFSCME has done for you or your department. I know it was not getting you armed. Your turn over rate up there is high which leads me to believe you guys are new, ignorant or nieve to the operations of AFSCME. You have a whole 7 officers to patrol a state college police department 24/7. You guys make case law because one of your officers were untrained and did not present his knowledge of powers of arrest during appeal (which almost ruined it for the rest of us) as well as with no legal representation by your union let alone you administration. Yet you say this union is right for you and has represented you adequately. What ever your guys reason for staying with AFSCME is, most state and community colleges don't get what they need if anything with this union, yet you defend it. Sounds a little strange to me and to other state and community college police officers who know better.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top