Massachusetts Cop Forum banner
41 - 60 of 61 Posts
Garda,
I've had both, suspects get out of their car and come back toward me and suspects have guns in their cars when I walked up on them.

As for the suspect getting out of his car and coming back to you, this is the main reason we don't sit in our cars to write tickets, that's a huge no no out my way.

As for having to use the patrol car as cover, that's why I'd rather not have it stopped too far behind the suspect's car. That was a huge space, aka kill zone, between their two cars. Just a matter of preference on this one I guess.

JD,
As for you driving over the IED and it didn't explode until two trucks behind you, you had no control over that so I agree, that was good luck... and thank goodness for you! As for an example like the one we're talking about here on this traffic stop, the officer had a lot to do with what happened, good and bad, so in my opinion, luck is a minor factor in a situation like this.

And yes, I have been involved in several life or death situations during my 26 years with the LAPD.
That's just one situation I've been involved in maybe I just don't give myself enough credit. I'm not agreeing with the officers tactics in the video there were a few "wtf" moments for me, but he still made it through. I consider him lucky and I'm glad he came out on top.
 
Hey LA, Godspeed Brother... however, maybe as u said it is just a matter of preference on this one I guess? I prefer not to be too close to the car ahead of me for several reasons To each our own I suppose. Stay Safe now and always.
 
I'm not agreeing with the officers tactics in the video there were a few "wtf" moments for me, but he still made it through. I consider him lucky and I'm glad he came out on top.
It's a very rare circumstance where everything goes just right and when it does, thank goodness for that. When it doesn't, personally I'd prefer to fall back on my training and good tactics rather than luck. However, when those don't work out, I'll take the luck!

Again, I like these types of discussions, they really get us thinking, which is a really good thing.
 
Hey LA, Godspeed Brother... however, maybe as u said it is just a matter of preference on this one I guess? After all/any mv stop I've made, I prefer not to be too close to the car ahead of me for several reasons which I've adapted into my SOP in order to keep me safe following a few "anomalies" which developed during previous "routine MV Stops". To each our own I suppose. Stay Safe now and Always.
I'd enjoy going on a ride along with you next time I'm home, I bet we'd have some interesting discussions, not to mention a lot of fun!
 
It seems when an cop is injured or shot in the line of duty as a result of poor tactics, they are immediately labeled a hero....and all discussion ceases. And when the outcome is favorable, people say "that worked" and don't examine WHY it worked. Every encounter, both positive and negative needs to be examined and critiqued equally. This is a perfect example. Most likely a case of suicide by cop, but if the bad guy wasn't loaded with birdshot this Officer would be another Dinkheller. He probably got a commendation, when he should be shown a new career. Not only was he unable to shoot when needed, he then asked to call his wife because he felt he was going to die. He lost that battle before he even showed up.
Here's a quote from an article about that shooting (or lack of shooting):

Now, the Conroe Police Department is seeking a grant for equipment that could prevent other officers from being injured like Kelemen.

The $44,900 grant from the Houston-Galveston Area Council would buy mobile ballistics shields that patrol officers could keep in their vehicles, Chief Philip Dupuis said.

"They are see-through shields that would allow us to have protection in certain situations," he said. "They're another tool to protect officers."

If Kelemen had such a shield, Dupuis said, "He could have been talking to the suspect from behind the shield."

Kelemen would be glad to have another protective item, but "when I'd pulled up (at the bakery) I don't know if I would have had time to grab it," he said. "If I'd been able to get to it, it would have saved my eye, without a doubt."
They wanted to spend 44 grand on shields to prevent this happening again. How about spending that money on training your officers in use of force tactics. Disgusting.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
Jeez, can't even "lurk" over there on "lightfighter". For some reason i always thought they sold web gear or something.

Hope they approve my membership. Even had to share my hobbies :D
Lightfighter is an OUTSTANDING network, more business than fluff, and an incredible wealth of knowledge with an impressive membership base of pretty high speed people. Weeds out a lot of the blowhard types on most of the other tactical/gun forums.

Another great comment from their thread on this video:
I like that the dept. training doesn't seem to default to "use car for cover" The officer boogied to the 2 o'clock and used darkness to advantage once he had solved problem #1
Either that or this particular guy has been to school on his own time and dime or has done counter ambush work, maybe in the service.
Either way, his first, second and follow-on moves were not right back to the bullet magnet with lights.
I also like that this guy brought the fight, continued the fight, and decisively finished the fight. That last shot may take some articulation, but I liked it anyway.
There is a lot that goes really right in this video to talk up during roll call or trainings.
But:

The cover officer clearly isn't entertaining the idea that the chick could (still) be a threat. Then he grabs his blaster, points it vaguely in the direction of the mutt and just as clearly decides mutt is hard down as well. Maybe he was, but until he is secured and the coroner ha declared him, he is a clear and present threat.
All in all good show! I would buy these guys a round or three.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pahapoika
Discussion starter · #49 ·
I don't know if it's regional, or just comes down to the officers own comfortableness around firearms/confidence in his training. There are civilians and cops alike who shit their pants at just seeing a gun, let alone one held in a menacing manner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pahapoika and Goose
Can't speak to traffic stops, but when working details in built up areas i like to stay out of the car and close to the work crews.

The utility guys seem to like the company and it keeps me from being a trapped target in the cruiser.

Might retreat back to the car in the really cold weather to warm up for a few minutes since the polyester suit doesn't lend itself to any real warmth even with extra layers and having to engage street people and passer-byes while standing outside can be annoying at times, but i just chalk it up as part of the job.
 
I remember talking about this with you at a M&G a few years ago. Maybe it's a training flaw here out east, but I can't say I've seen anyone writing a gig outside of their cruiser.. It does tactically make sense, and I did try it a couple times but just couldn't get comfortable with it. But I will tell you I spend more time watching the occupants of the vehicle and checking my mirrors than I do looking down at the gig or MDT.

Stay safe out there.
Hi Lawman,

I don't know if it's a training flaw as much as it is a mindset. Over the years I've done lots of ride alongs back there with friends on a number of different departments and after we'd go to calls or they'd do traffic stops, they'd ask me how we would have handled it. When I tell them, I get basically the same response from everyone: "That's not how we do it around here." When I point out the difference in how we'd do it and how it could be safer, I get that same response, "I know but that's just not how we do it around here." What else can I say at that point?

Maybe when I come back there this summer, we could get together either for a Meet and Greet or just to discuss the job (or both) with anyone who is interested in this type of spirited discussion... in person. I'm sure there are a number of us on here who have a lot to share. Just a thought.
 
Hi Lawman,

I don't know if it's a training flaw as much as it is a mindset. Over the years I've done lots of ride alongs back there with friends on a number of different departments and after we'd go to calls or they'd do traffic stops, they'd ask me how we would have handled it. When I tell them, I get basically the same response from everyone: "That's not how we do it around here." When I point out the difference in how we'd do it and how it could be safer, I get that same response, "I know but that's just not how we do it around here." What else can I say at that point?

Maybe when I come back there this summer, we could get together either for a Meet and Greet or just to discuss the job for anyone who is interested in this type of spirited discussion... in person. I'm sure there are a number of us on here who have a lot to share. Just a thought.
Couldn't make it to the last "get together" because of work, but now have a much more flexible schedule. Would like to get together with fellow mass coppers and LA Copper to "chew the fat", discuss procedures and even walk through some scenarios.

Since LE has a bulls-eye on their back more than ever it's something we should be discussing.
 
Couldn't make it to the last "get together" because of work, but now have a much more flexible schedule. Would like to get together with fellow mass coppers and LA Copper to "chew the fat", discuss procedures and even walk through some scenarios.

Since LE has a bulls-eye on their back more than ever it's something we should be discussing.
Count me in
 
If anyone is interested in me facilitating a Range Day when we thaw out... PM me. LE or vetted MC members only. I'll put together a loose outline with some drills, but it would be a pot-luck event for the most part. Bring at least one idea or drill you want to work on. I may be able to get a nice private range where we can do work. Have a pistol that can hit something at 50 yards.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
Will there be vehicles available? [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: pahapoika
Discussion starter · #59 ·
Absolutely, we can show you a few examples during range day. Great inexpensive indoor practice for draw/manipulation and short range accuracy. Another great product is the SIRT laser pistol, though that's more expensive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
41 - 60 of 61 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top