This dashcam video is better than Viagra | MassCops

This dashcam video is better than Viagra

Discussion in 'War Stories' started by Hush, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member


    Solid tactics! Only wish he had a weapon mounted light, but damn solid shooting!
     
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  2. Pvt. Cowboy

    Pvt. Cowboy Lemme take a selfie Staff Member

    Wow kids.

    For those of you that don't have WML's, make DAMN SURE you know how to shoot well one handed, just like this guy did.

    I know for myself, I'm not awesome single handed, and it's something that I need to work on, but I'm not out there stopping cars.

    Shits getting WORSE, not better, so if you're complacent and not keeping your skills sharp... I don't know what to tell you.

    Take lessons with Cloverleaf, he's got me shooting well.
     
  3. Goose

    Goose The list is long but distinguished. Staff Member

    It's a good thing no traffic came down that lane...
     
  4. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    Excellent work by this officer and thank God he wasn't injured.
    Goose, I kept expecting her to be run over. Glad she wasn't since a) she may have been essentially an innocent person in the company of a thug; b) the paperwork would have been overwhelming and Officer Leighty had enough to do as it was.
     
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  5. FourInchFury

    FourInchFury MassCops Member

    0:07-6:46= 'If you experience an erection lasting longer than 4 hours, please seek medical help right away'.
     
  6. pahapoika

    pahapoika Subscribing Member

    very nice :cool:
     
  7. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Hank, You beat me to it. This is not a "textbook" incident. Here's what I see:


    - The officer parked his patrol car too far behind the suspect's car, which made for way too much "kill zone" between cars.
    - When the officer approached the suspect's car, he stood in the doorway instead of back behind the door jamb.
    - Once the officer observed the gun in the car, he should have taken cover and then called for back up.
    - After the suspect was down, he should have told responding officers which direction to respond so there wouldn't be a crossfire.
    - I would have told the female to get up (if she could) and walk her backwards to wherever they wanted her so they wouldn't have to put themselves in harm's way when they walked up on her.
    - When they did walk up on her, no one close had their weapon out to cover the bad guy, the cover officer was back by the patrol car.
    - When one of the responding officers arrived, he parked his patrol car right in front of the suspect's car, facing the officers with his wig wags and overhead lights pointing in the officers' faces, essentially blinding them before they could approach the downed suspect to take him into custody.

    Most critical incidents aren't perfect but this is how we learn for the next time. This is the "debrief" I talked about before.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  8. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Agree with both assessments....and this is far out of my lane. I think his recognition that something was "hinky" and his use of the passenger side approach was a good idea. He was lucky that the TWO occupants were both completely oblivious to his presence.
    I stand by my comment on the WML, he had to switch hands between gun, light, and radio. He was forced to do his shooting one-handed, though he still scored solid and multiple hits.
    As for choosing to engage rather than retreat and call for backup...like a hunter I'm sure he had the rush of having the drop on the guy, and he did. Could have been cleaner, but bad guy died and no one innocent got hurt.
    The post shooting tactics were clearly uncoordinated and could have been handled more efficiently.
    But I still say watching this guy sneak up and get the drop on a genuine bad guy, and putting him down...makes the blood flow south.
     
    brk120 likes this.
  9. pahapoika

    pahapoika Subscribing Member

    I will always defer to Hank and LA Coppers experience in these matters, but speaking strictly from a layman's perspective he saw the gun, got his sidearm out , radioed it in as a gun call ( which seemed to have the desired effect of getting the troops on scene ), put effective placement of rounds "downrange", spared the passenger as a non combatant , called in his position and the vehicle occupants and most importantly went home alive.

    Might have been an ugly win, but still a win :cool:
     
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  10. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

    Deputy Dinkheller used distance and cover and was closed in on and unfortunately murdered. The officer in this video wasn't just standing still the whole time he did move around to the engine block while firing hitting his target then broke contact and created distance. Violance of action is why he was able to come out of this on top along with luck obviously. Creating distance and getting cover does save lives as creating distance saved mine but sometimes you have to take the fight to the threat.
     
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  11. TacEntry

    TacEntry MassCops Member

    Dinkheller (rest his soul) made several crucial fatal mistakes:
    - failed to take control of the suspect and let suspect return to vehicle after giving a glancing baton strike.
    - all ensuing bad things stem from him failing to take control of the situation at the onset.
    - Dinkheller pretty much slipped into the "black" quickly and his commands, decisions and tactics never recovered.

    The Westerville officer in this case has several tactical flaws that are learning points for all of us - but audacity and luck won the day. But lets remember-he ran into what appears to be a high or drunk pistol toting idiot - not a crazed and sober combat veteran with gunfight expierience armed with a rifle.
     
  12. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

    Yes you caught me. In these videos the officers did in fact create distance and still lost their lives. I'm not saying that you should stand in the middle of the street guns blazing. What the officer did in the video above may be not what he was taught and his tactics might have been shit but at the end of the day he's still alive and the bad guy isn't.
    You says you hate to MMQB it but you did anyway. Watching the video I never once thought I would've done this or that. Because I wasn't there so I dont know exactly what I would've done. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go get high again.

     
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  13. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    My endorsement was only regarding the officers recognition of the threat, effective use of the passenger approach,and successful engagement. The rest definitely is deserving of some of the expert critiquing on here
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  14. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    And THANK YOU for finding that video of Trooper Coates, that's been a difficult one to locate online
     
  15. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

    It could've been worse this could've happend.
     
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  16. Pvt. Cowboy

    Pvt. Cowboy Lemme take a selfie Staff Member

    I certainly don't have any experience with situations like this, ESPECIALLY to the extent that Hank or LA have.

    To clarify my statement, I made mention of a WML because he had his flashlight in one hand, and his weapon in his other. Personally I'm not awesome at shooting one handed, so it's good to see this guy got the job done as he did.

    I find that MMQB'ing is a GOOD thing here. To have people here that have experience in instruction of patrol procedures and someone like LA, who has probably stopped more vehicles in his career than most... I welcome their input.

    Criticism can save lives kids.
     
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  17. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    May they rest in peace but there are mistakes made by the officers in the videos above, prior to the officer involved shootings, that led to the suspects' shootings, distance had nothing to do with either of them.

    As far as officers "going home at the end of the day," that sometimes means they got lucky, which we'll take every time. Luck and skill have benefited us numerous times throughout the years. That being said, we (collectively we in law enforcement) shouldn't have to rely on luck, especially when the bad guys are armed and waiting to take us on.

    We should be doing a lot more training so when this type of thing happens, we'll know what to do. My department trains all the time, either "officially" at a training class or "unofficially" in roll call or during down time out on the street.

    Like I'm sure many of you have, I too have been in similar scenarios where a suspect has had a gun during a traffic stop (and lots of pedestrian stops too). With all the gang members we have out here in Los Angeles, it's hard not to come across them, that's why training and a good mindset is crucial.

    Call it whatever you like, debriefing or Monday morning quarterbacking, if we can save one officer's life by talking about what can be done better or what went right for the next time, then that's a good thing. It's all about saving lives here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
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  18. pahapoika

    pahapoika Subscribing Member

    Might not be the officers fault when it comes to training.

    The culture here is to piss and moan about in-service and then leave a cloud of dust out of the parking lot.

    We had a great trainer one Saturday morning with the Plymouth police chief who stated he would spend all day with us in the Range 2000, but the cry babies won and we went home early.
     
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  19. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    I disagree, a lot falls on the individual officer. If you're stuck in a backwards dept full of slugs, there are tons of agencies and individuals offering top notch firearms and tactics training across the country. Many of these classes are filled with officers attending on their own time and dime. And from what I've personally seen, the officers who whine the most about training or unpaid training tend to have the most toys in their garage. It would be a real shame to not be alive to play with them, because you accepted your departments bare minimum annual qualification and in service as "training".
     
  20. pahapoika

    pahapoika Subscribing Member

    I do attend additional training at my own expense at least once if not twice a year.

    However I still feel it is the department's responsibility to provide the necessary training to deal with situations in the street especially regarding recent events
     
  21. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Oh I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, to some depts a funeral is cheaper than properly training and equipping their officers.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  22. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    I can attest to this as I met Pahapoika when we attended a two day school together back there last summer along with Triple 7
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
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  23. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    Not arguing with you, but isn't luck what saves us more often than not? Tactics and so forth, extremely important, but if we didn't have luck, we'd have nothing. Just how I see it.
     
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  24. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    I agree with Hush 100%. My department puts on a lot of training but I still go to some training on my own dime, including the training I referenced above back there with Pahapoika and Triple 7 last summer and the summer before.

    I've offered a number of times to participate in training back there with anyone who wanted and the only people who joined in were Hush and three other folks who weren't even on a department yet. Many people told me, "if I'm not getting paid for it, I ain't going." Not the best attitude to have in my humble opinion. I give Kudos to Hush and Cowboy and Pahapoika and the other folks who train on their own time, that's the kind of thing that sets them aside from many others although it should be the norm.

    Our job is very dangerous; the more training we do the better off we can be. That and a little luck will hopefully get us safely through a long and enjoyable career.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
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  25. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    It seems when an cop is injured or shot in the line of duty as a result of poor tactics, they are immediately labeled a hero....and all discussion ceases. And when the outcome is favorable, people say "that worked" and don't examine WHY it worked. Every encounter, both positive and negative needs to be examined and critiqued equally. This is a perfect example. Most likely a case of suicide by cop, but if the bad guy wasn't loaded with birdshot this Officer would be another Dinkheller. He probably got a commendation, when he should be shown a new career. Not only was he unable to shoot when needed, he then asked to call his wife because he felt he was going to die. He lost that battle before he even showed up.
     
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