I didn't hear that....Where did this info come from? Solid source or a friend of a friend. If it is true, I will say that it should not happen. I have no problem with Vets....My dad and grandfather were both vets....but if you are in the military, war and active service is part of the beast. If you are there, you shouldn't be able to take the test until the next one comes up when you come home. This is my opinion, please do not take it personal.STA1/8 said:
The Great Vet Debate
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Shawn 76,
So what your saying is that our US soldiers, fighting for YOUR country and risking their lives and having to be away from their families for the very freedom you enjoy everyday, should be PUNISHED because they couldn't be here when the civil service test was given.
Smarten up!!!
PBC,
Learn to read, I never said punish them. I simply stated that where they are overseas, they are at war. When they come home then they can take the test. Do you have any idea how many people are over there. I never had the opportunity to serve, was about to until my baby was born....so I chose to stay home and work to support my family. I wasn't able to just get up and go because of my circumstances. I will say though, it is not fair to go and give a test to someone who joined the military right out of high school and now he is 21 with maybe a little time left and will come home sometime this winter or next year and be given preference over me. I am not going to soften this up for you, I do not agree with full veterans preference.....Now that being said...I do agree with giving extra points say 5 extra. You need to understand that there are some of us who have families that have been waiting a long time to get on.....My first priority is getting on so I can support my family and do what I have always wanted to do. You know this is the second time you and I haven't seen eye to eye and we have only interacted twice. If you have a serious problem with my views send me a PM and will talk, do not however take your gripe to the board....The only thing you accomplish is the creation of a heated debate. So either go seek out FloridaCops.com or tell me to smarten up in a PM.
As for individuals who are Veterans,
Please excuse me if I come across as a jerk. I am in no way trying to say that what you guys/girls do for our country does not deserve extra benefits. You individuals put you lives on the line for all of us and I as an individual and a father greatly thank you and appreciate it all. I simply tried to make a point and was misunderstood by some. I know a police chief who is a veteran and he gave me a great quote "Veterans do deserve extra points on the exam, but not full preference....reason being is that their are other candidates out there who are highly qualified and would make great cops, but miss out on the chance due to the preference". I personally know an individual who was in the army who was a well respected Green Beret. this indiviual because of his status not his score (which was not that great) was chosen by a police depatment. Right before this individual became employed he was arrested for breaking in to the house of a ranking officer from a large city and stole his badge and uniform....the rest I will not get into....It just would have sucked if this person got the job over another guy better suited.
Learn to read, I never said punish them. I simply stated that where they are overseas, they are at war. When they come home then they can take the test. Do you have any idea how many people are over there. I never had the opportunity to serve, was about to until my baby was born....so I chose to stay home and work to support my family. I wasn't able to just get up and go because of my circumstances. I will say though, it is not fair to go and give a test to someone who joined the military right out of high school and now he is 21 with maybe a little time left and will come home sometime this winter or next year and be given preference over me. I am not going to soften this up for you, I do not agree with full veterans preference.....Now that being said...I do agree with giving extra points say 5 extra. You need to understand that there are some of us who have families that have been waiting a long time to get on.....My first priority is getting on so I can support my family and do what I have always wanted to do. You know this is the second time you and I haven't seen eye to eye and we have only interacted twice. If you have a serious problem with my views send me a PM and will talk, do not however take your gripe to the board....The only thing you accomplish is the creation of a heated debate. So either go seek out FloridaCops.com or tell me to smarten up in a PM.
As for individuals who are Veterans,
Please excuse me if I come across as a jerk. I am in no way trying to say that what you guys/girls do for our country does not deserve extra benefits. You individuals put you lives on the line for all of us and I as an individual and a father greatly thank you and appreciate it all. I simply tried to make a point and was misunderstood by some. I know a police chief who is a veteran and he gave me a great quote "Veterans do deserve extra points on the exam, but not full preference....reason being is that their are other candidates out there who are highly qualified and would make great cops, but miss out on the chance due to the preference". I personally know an individual who was in the army who was a well respected Green Beret. this indiviual because of his status not his score (which was not that great) was chosen by a police depatment. Right before this individual became employed he was arrested for breaking in to the house of a ranking officer from a large city and stole his badge and uniform....the rest I will not get into....It just would have sucked if this person got the job over another guy better suited.
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Shawn 76,
I have nothing against you because I don't know you, so don't take it that way. What I have a problem with is when OUR soldiers have to go through fighting for OUR country and OUR freedoms and for that all we as a country can reward them with is the chance to become a police officer, then rather than fight them, you should thank them and welcome them aboard.
I am proud of the job our soldiers have done in this war and if by assisting them in becoming cops is all we can do, thats not too much to ask.
You chose not to join the service so you could be home with your family and thats your right as a US citizen and I'm not judging that, but some of our soldiers did not have that option and went regardless so you and I didn't have to, but now when they come back, thank them the best way we can.
Hopefully you'll get your chance to become a police officer, but don't go after it on this front. Don't ever sell your soul for a job, because its only a job. You told me that the system is great in Mass and works just fine, well this is part of that system and a part I hate to see people attack.
Good luck in your career
I have nothing against you because I don't know you, so don't take it that way. What I have a problem with is when OUR soldiers have to go through fighting for OUR country and OUR freedoms and for that all we as a country can reward them with is the chance to become a police officer, then rather than fight them, you should thank them and welcome them aboard.
I am proud of the job our soldiers have done in this war and if by assisting them in becoming cops is all we can do, thats not too much to ask.
You chose not to join the service so you could be home with your family and thats your right as a US citizen and I'm not judging that, but some of our soldiers did not have that option and went regardless so you and I didn't have to, but now when they come back, thank them the best way we can.
Hopefully you'll get your chance to become a police officer, but don't go after it on this front. Don't ever sell your soul for a job, because its only a job. You told me that the system is great in Mass and works just fine, well this is part of that system and a part I hate to see people attack.
Good luck in your career
I have to say I fel bad for you people that are not vets. Luckliy I am one and have been on for six yrs. It is tough but if you score high enough and they want you, you will get hired. I heard of towns putting on more cops than they anticipated because they wanted to reach someone on the list. But I think the preferance is good. If it weren't for the prefernce I would be working a low paying job most likely, when I first got out it was hard to find a decent job. Got no respect what so ever for being in the service. I rember I went to see the local vet agent for a job and he pulled out the classified adds and tried to show me some lousy low paying jobs. I had to wait a yr for the test and two years for them to hire, luckily I got hired. It is the best job ever. Like I said a friend of mine has his masters and can not get hired and he has been trying hard, due to vet's. But I am thankful for the gratitude that civil service gave me for my sacrifices. I never knew about vet status when I was 18. I just made a lot of sacrifices when I was in the service and it feels good to be rewarded. Hopefully you guys will get on. And I do think they should make it a little stricter. Someone should not get it if they stood in the states for four yrs guarding nothing. Gil did you hear anything about the test given recently for military who were absent during the past exam.
Vets should get a few extra points, not preference. Being a Veteran doesn't make you anymore qualified than anyone else on the list. So why should they go first. If a Army cook served in Iraq he gets Vet status - theres a big LE related background, NOT!. Cut the crap, getting points for service is one thing but getting the preference over others because of it? That BS. Like PBC said, not everyone can make the sacrafice to join the service so why should we be held back? Giving points and not preference is called equal and fair treatment. Veterans are no better than non-veterans.
You want a thank you? "Thank you" and heres 3 or 5 points... now get in line.
Vets, sorry if I sound like a jerk but I know a few guys that are Vets and most disagree with the preference also. The ones that score low are the ones that are thankful for it. If you do good enough on the test you wouldn't need the pref.. There are also a few vets that shouldn't be allowed on a tricycle nevermind being given a gun.
You want a thank you? "Thank you" and heres 3 or 5 points... now get in line.
Vets, sorry if I sound like a jerk but I know a few guys that are Vets and most disagree with the preference also. The ones that score low are the ones that are thankful for it. If you do good enough on the test you wouldn't need the pref.. There are also a few vets that shouldn't be allowed on a tricycle nevermind being given a gun.
I've got to chime in on this one :lol:
I am a vet myself, and I do like the full pref for vets, of course cause I am one. Being realistic though full pref is a bit unfair extra points is much more fair like the MSP give 2 or something.... as far as some of the other stuff I have read above, like vets that ride tricycles, or can't operate a weapon etc hehe.. there are scum bags everywhere just cause your a vet doesn't mean your better or more qualified. After 9/11 there were and still are lots of deployments, so there are going to be lots of vets flooding the field in the next comming years.
For those of you who aren't vets I realize it can be hard to see what we go through. I have had to move more than once, due to deployments etc.. I just couldn't afford it on a military salary. I have lost residency many times, had to move, and had no choice. Many of my friends have gone through much worse especially those with families. Now in times like these it's tough to get anything done. I've got one semister of college left and I haven't been able to do one class due to my obligation. Now I am not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me, I chose my path and now I have to walk it. So does every other vet. Like I said before the full pref is unequal, the point system seems the only way to even it up.. but as many of us said before CS needs an overhaul.
I am a vet myself, and I do like the full pref for vets, of course cause I am one. Being realistic though full pref is a bit unfair extra points is much more fair like the MSP give 2 or something.... as far as some of the other stuff I have read above, like vets that ride tricycles, or can't operate a weapon etc hehe.. there are scum bags everywhere just cause your a vet doesn't mean your better or more qualified. After 9/11 there were and still are lots of deployments, so there are going to be lots of vets flooding the field in the next comming years.
For those of you who aren't vets I realize it can be hard to see what we go through. I have had to move more than once, due to deployments etc.. I just couldn't afford it on a military salary. I have lost residency many times, had to move, and had no choice. Many of my friends have gone through much worse especially those with families. Now in times like these it's tough to get anything done. I've got one semister of college left and I haven't been able to do one class due to my obligation. Now I am not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me, I chose my path and now I have to walk it. So does every other vet. Like I said before the full pref is unequal, the point system seems the only way to even it up.. but as many of us said before CS needs an overhaul.
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Guys, not for nothing but this topic has been beaten with a dead horse and im sure a few cattle. Vet preference sucks and its unfair but its a fact of life. If you dont like it, write a letter to every Tom, Dick and Harry stating your objections. I even posted a whole list of people you can copy and past your Email to. Gov Romney is a good one to start with, you may even get some kicks by letting the subject out on radio shows like extreme games on 96.9 fm ( I have herd it try to pop out on Jay's show).
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I feel the Vet Pref should stay exactly the way it is. Those Veterans are fighting for your freedom. The same freedom that allows us to complain about how unfair Vet Pref is. Veterans deserve Preferance and our thanks. If you want to be on a police department join the service. They give housing to family members if your deployed.
Non Vet here. I think the Veterans Preference should stay exactly the way it is. If you leave your family behind to go to some foreign place where you could lose your life, mind, and various other body parts. I dont think its asking too much that you have preference on a test that is given every two years, and I think that an accomdation should be made for you to take the test if you are serving your country at the time its offerred. I will second Union 1 this issue has been argued time and time before and it usually ends up turning into a insult match that gil or one of the other moderators ends up putting it to bed.
t: Union1 nice avatar
t: Union1 nice avatar
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Well here we go again, Ide say to all the non vets, its about time to pack up your belongings and either go to another state or get out of Law Enforcement all together. With the new Vet law that looks like it has been enacted, you have a better chance of seeing god than getting a job as a cop
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whine, whine, whine. Its not a perfect system, but hey what ya gonna do. I agree with Vet points just like points for degrees, police academy, police experience and EMt certs. The points should be the same for all the kinds of preferences, sounds fair. I think VETS should get full preference, if they were drafted that is. I appreciate the sacrafice, but it was a personal choise and there was no one forcing you to join.
The big problem that I see with The veteran system in Massachusetts is in the way the state administers the whole civil service process. They give an open competitive exam and allow everyone with a GED to take the test. Some Municipalities impose an age limit of 32, but that is another 10 page argument. The problem is the exam announcement mentions nothing of how the preferences rank, or how the regulations are administered. The only reason I know so much about this is I did a term paper on this subject in college because one of my instructors started singing the praises of how massachusetts has the best hiring practices for public safey employees. Civil service needs to list their hiring practices from how preferences are applied to consent decrees that way a person realizes the 99 or 100 they score isnt the only factor in where they place on the list.
Disabled vets are allowed a max percentage of disability (30% I think). I worked with 2, and one had a 10% disability, that was from running too much, as a Ranger. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm o.k. with that. The other broke an ankle from a parachute drop (Airborne Ranger), also around 10%. I think I'm o.k. with that as well. I do not think anyone needs to argue that if one has a "Purple Heart", with limited disability, should be o.k. As for "physically demanding", in 5+ years, I had to run once, and wrestle once. In the overall scheme of things, not very demanding. If the disabled vets were in my position, they could have handled both situations just as well.
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I say B.S if a copthat is a non-vet has ten yrs on and a disabled VET has 5 yrs on and layoffs come the disabled VET should not get to keep his/her job over the ten Yr guy/gal. That is crazy. Time on should dictate who get s laid off first, its that simple.
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·Burner1 not to try and burn your. But you said that you have been on 5+ yrs and you had to run once and wrestle once. Where do you work? You must work in a small town most likely. I have been on about four years and have to run and wrestle every week, but I enjoy it. Wouldn't want it any other way. Everyone says police work is the same but it is very different from being a town cop and a city cop. City police have to overlook smaller infractions. so that we do not get tied up on miniscule reports when felonies are in progress. Just my opinion, this should be another topic. The difference between small town police work and city polie work.
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