[jimbo]

:shock: had veteran inservice this past week - one of the handouts was a supposed change in the fine for a stop sign or red light violation - it seemed to indicate that the fine is going to go from $50 to $150 -yikes.
think it's fair or excessive ? also- now we are told that there is no longer a massachusetts criminal justice training council - it is now called the municipal police training commitee (see their web site). an instructor said that sheriff department employees will no longer be able to attend classes with, or instruct police officers. if there is a vacancy in a class, it will go to a part time police officer, not a deputy. any confirmation about this ? whats the purpose of changing the agency ? there are 2 good deputy instructors at the academy that i am aware of - one teaches cpr and one teaches self defense - both been there a while - personally, i'd hate to see someone who has done a good job lose their job. only deputies i've ever seen in a full time officer's inservice class are maybe 1 or 2 k9 officers...they are good men and not part of the hackarama.....any info ??

 

[bbelichick]

:shock: had veteran inservice this past week - one of the handouts was a supposed change in the fine for a stop sign or red light violation - it seemed to indicate that the fine is going to go from $50 to $150 -yikes.
think it's fair or excessive ? also- now we are told that there is no longer a massachusetts criminal justice training council - it is now called the municipal police training commitee (see their web site). an instructor said that sheriff department employees will no longer be able to attend classes with, or instruct police officers. if there is a vacancy in a class, it will go to a part time police officer, not a deputy. any confirmation about this ? whats the purpose of changing the agency ? there are 2 good deputy instructors at the academy that i am aware of - one teaches cpr and one teaches self defense - both been there a while - personally i'd hate to see someone who has done a good job ,lose their job. only deputies i've ever seen in a full time officer's inservice class are maybe 1 or 2 k9 officers...they are good men and not part of the hackarama.....any info ??

I think this has been a LONG time coming with the MCJTC...8 years ago when I was attending the Res/Int at Agawam I can recall quite a bit of disdain for the SD from the staff there. I don't know what finally pushed it...

 

[Gil]

You could always hit em with 720 CMR 9.06 20 bucks if you are feeling generous.

 

[jimbo]

Gil, we have rt 3, rt 3a and rt 44 where i work - i know you can use cmr's on those state roads, but can we use them on municipal roads too? along with 7 yrs of higher insurance premiums, $150 seems excessive exept in the most egrigous cases

 

[jimbo]

Gil, we have rt 3, rt 3a and rt 44 where i work - i know you can use cmr's on those state roads, but can we use them on municipal roads too? along with 7 yrs of higher insurance premiums, $150 seems excessive except in the most egregious cases . JSG, think it might have had something to do with the essex county sheriff's department trying to patrol new bedford ??
maybe it's the state's way of saying cops are cops, deputies are deputies.... there is a difference in massachusetts

 

[Macop]

Jimbo I am pretty sure you can can use CMRs on town/city streets/roads as long as they connect from a state highway.

 

[Irish Wampanoag]

How about state college using CMRs ?

 

[Guest]

along with 7 yrs of higher insurance premiums, $150 seems excessive exept in the most egrigous cases

I agree. The driver would have to be a true Alpha Hotel to get that citation.

 

[bbelichick]

You know, I was thinking about it, and it seems we routinely hand out $100 gigs for speeding, but the $50 gig for Stop/Red Light Violators doesn't seem low? If someone blows a red light, they are directly taking other people lives into their hands...How many times have you had a light turn green, for some reason you don't go, and then some f*cking a-hole blows by you as you are thinking "I could have been dead"...

Maybe there should be 2 fines, kind of like the NFL "facemask" penalty...a $50 gig for borderline/ rolling stop guys, and a $150 gig for that comple douchebag that just blows through a red light or doesn't touch his brakes at a Stop Sign.

 

[mpd61]

jsg2020,

I agree, somebody BLOWS a stop sign, gig their ass!
For a rolling stop, just read em the riot act and give em a written warning.
(kinda like declining the penalty, it still makes em think)
:wink:

 

[PearlOnyx]

""JSG, think it might have had something to do with the essex county sheriff's department trying to patrol new bedford ?? ""

Just for the record, that was the Bristol County Sheriff's Department. I (Essex) would have to leave my house about 3 hours early and get a new job if I were to patrol New Bedford. :wink: We in Essex do no patrol work, other than K9 mutual aid, if you count that.

 

[bbelichick]

""JSG, think it might have had something to do with the essex county sheriff's department trying to patrol new bedford ?? ""

Just for the record, that was the Bristol County Sheriff's Department. I (Essex) would have to leave my house about 3 hours early and get a new job if I were to patrol New Bedford. :wink: We in Essex do no patrol work, other than K9 mutual aid, if you count that.

Pearl, I have no idea where that quote came from.

 

[Irish Wampanoag]

You know, I was thinking about it, and it seems we routinely hand out $100 gigs for speeding, but the $50 gig for Stop/Red Light Violators doesn't seem low? If someone blows a red light, they are directly taking other people lives into their hands...How many times have you had a light turn green, for some reason you don't go, and then some f*cking a-hole blows by you as you are thinking "I could have been dead"...

Maybe there should be 2 fines, kind of like the NFL "facemask" penalty...a $50 gig for borderline/ rolling stop guys, and a $150 gig for that comple douchebag that just blows through a red light or doesn't touch his brakes at a Stop Sign.

I agree with ya my lad. I would gig them 50 dollars if it is a kind of rolling stop but sometimes they fly through fast not even acknowledging the stop sign. I would have no problem gig them 150 dollar. I love one excuse I got "Oh officer I sorry, I was on my cell phone, I didn't see the stop sign"!! My relpy oh ok well consider this 50 dollars ticket a roaming charge, can you hear me now! She call me a FinA and sped away.

 

[bbelichick]

You know, I was thinking about it, and it seems we routinely hand out $100 gigs for speeding, but the $50 gig for Stop/Red Light Violators doesn't seem low? If someone blows a red light, they are directly taking other people lives into their hands...How many times have you had a light turn green, for some reason you don't go, and then some f*cking a-hole blows by you as you are thinking "I could have been dead"...

Maybe there should be 2 fines, kind of like the NFL "facemask" penalty...a $50 gig for borderline/ rolling stop guys, and a $150 gig for that comple douchebag that just blows through a red light or doesn't touch his brakes at a Stop Sign.

I agree with ya my lad. I would gig them 50 dollars if it is a kind of rolling stop but sometimes they fly through fast not even acknowledging the stop sign. I would have no problem gig them 150 dollar. I love one excuse I got "Oh officer I sorry, I was on my cell phone, I didn't see the stop sign"!! My relpy oh ok well consider this 50 dollars ticket a roaming charge, can you hear me now! She call me a FinA and sped away.

The Stop signs are bad enough, but it's the red lights that really get me pissed. Just by it's nature, a traffic control is at a busy intersection (obviously)...If someone blows a red light and the opposite vehicle isn't careful then it could be a fatality. I think $150 for a bad rlight violation is a pretty fair fine.

 

[phuzz01]

Maybe there should be 2 fines, kind of like the NFL "facemask" penalty...a $50 gig for borderline/ rolling stop guys, and a $150 gig for that comple douchebag that just blows through a red light or doesn't touch his brakes at a Stop Sign.

You could also look at it the other way, though. The guy rolling through the stop sign clearly knows the sign is there, but is choosing not to obey it (remember that whole "start clubbing them with baton, ask if they want you to slow down or stop?"). On the other hand, every now and then a sign is not well placed, and someone blows through completely by mistake.

I don't really disagree with you, jsg, just throwing that out there...

 

[jimbo]

any comments,information on the massachusetts criminal justice training councel becoming the new municipal police training counsel ? supposedly only municipal police will be able to attend classes there in the near future. one instructor said that deputies will not be allowed to teach or attend class and that they will be taught by their own association.. what happens to campus police, enviro police,etc ?? :?

 

[bbelichick]

Maybe there should be 2 fines, kind of like the NFL "facemask" penalty...a $50 gig for borderline/ rolling stop guys, and a $150 gig for that comple douchebag that just blows through a red light or doesn't touch his brakes at a Stop Sign.

You could also look at it the other way, though. The guy rolling through the stop sign clearly knows the sign is there, but is choosing not to obey it (remember that whole "start clubbing them with baton, ask if they want you to slow down or stop?"). On the other hand, every now and then a sign is not well placed, and someone blows through completely by mistake.

I don't really disagree with you, jsg, just throwing that out there...

Oh, I know it happens but there are always the jerks who could just care less...That's what you use your "people skills" for, to discern the massive jerks from the innocent mistakes.

 

[dcs2244]

As far as the sign being "not well placed", there is a standard available known as the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, published by U.S. DOT. Though not binding on state or local government, it is the source most often referenced by traffic engineers across the country.

Section 2A.16 addresses sign placement:

2A.16: "Standardization of position cannot always be attained in practice. Locations for a number of typical signs are illustrated in Figures 2A-1 to 2A-7"

Several diagrams are shown. 2A-1 adress rural district signs. For a stop sign, the MUTCD suggest that the edge of the sign be not less than 1.8 m (6 ft) from the edge of the road and that the height of the bottom edge of the sign be no less than 1.5 m(5 ft) high.

MUTCD also contains standards for size/shape/color/reflectivity of signs, pavement markings and traffic control devices(electronic).

I apologize for wandering slightly t: ! The overwhelming majority of the multi-vehicle fatals that I reconstruct are at intersections with stop signs/lights/yield signs or NONE at all(usually confined to "T" type intersections in residential urban areas).

If you know of intersections in your jurisdiction that have no or poorly placed signs, you need to get with the traffic engineer responsible for the intersection and advise him(chain-of-command duly noted ).

Some may not think this is any of our business, but if your jurisdiction looses a big civil suit because of (among other things) sign placement or the lack thereof, you may be looking at equipment and manpower shortages, loss of overtime...well, you get the idea. :shock:

Say some scumbag runs a sign and kills a lemming. You can bet that if there is anything perceived to be wrong with the sign placement, the defense will make it an issue. Once it's an issue at the criminal side, it will be on the civil side as well. But, if it does become an issue, the fact that the traffic engineer can testify that the sign and its placement comply with MUTCD helps to remove the issue from the criminal defense and any civil suit that may be lodged against the jurisdiction.

If the jurisdiction fails to address the issue, I suppose you could hammer violators at the intersection in question, causing them to complain to the jurisdiction...

In any event, I am in favor of the new fine. You can always use warnings and the CMR...whether or not it is applicable in the situation is moot: the courts don't know and find the violator responsible anyway

Sorry, this is way more than you wanted to know...just thought I throw it out there FYI... [/b]

 

[bbelichick]

It's Off Topic, but I think it is a sad statement on our society as my e-mail spam filter keeps dumping the reply notifications for this thread in my junk mail box, I believe because the word "violation" appears in the subject. Ya bunch of f*cking sickos. :lol:

 

[dcs2244]

Although it's slightly off topic, as I admitted, I think it dovetails nicely with the topic. It is more information than anybody asked for...but it provides information that may not have been known by several of you.

I have learned much through reading the posts on this site. I am more than happy to share the information that I have learned through my speciality...and not charge you $175 an hour (four hour minimum) to do so! :shock:

I think it's sad that given our litigious society we have to think this way.