Dear H50, i'm sure your a swell guy, but lets get something straight.I don't write laws, thats the job of the Legislature and courts(to which case law derives)in case you never took constitutional law.I'm not a lawer but I can interpret general laws and case law opinions, too which you obviously cannot.Obviously, a sheriff is not a police officer in the sense of job performance, but for the meaning under the law the term is the same.As for the high sheriff(14 in Massachusetts)they are considered the chief law enforcemnt officer in their counties.Now obviously the laws are old and archaic, as a trooper pointed out in another forum, but for the purpose of argument a sheriff can issue citation books if he /she wishes to do so.It's already done in some counties(thank god not mine).I think you need someone to explain to you the case of comm vs. baez a little better so you can understand it.If your a full time police officer, maybe you should update your profile.I think i'm done on this subject to which this a argument between us is pointless.
Stoneham PD abandoning mid shift?
Has anyone else heard the rumors regarding Stoneham PD eliminating their entire midnight shift due to budget constraints?
Another shockwave: apparently the Middlesex County Sheriff has offered four deputies, a K-9, and a sergeant to cover each night... for FREE. :uc:
Stoneham has a population of approximately 23,000; Routes 93 and 128 also run through town.
-Mike :shock: :shock: :shock:
Another shockwave: apparently the Middlesex County Sheriff has offered four deputies, a K-9, and a sergeant to cover each night... for FREE. :uc:
Stoneham has a population of approximately 23,000; Routes 93 and 128 also run through town.
-Mike :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Actually, in Mass, I believe the chief County Law Enforcement officer is the District Attorney.k9sheriff said:As for the high sheriff(14 in Massachusetts)they are considered the chief law enforcemnt officer in their counties
H50, the WCSO patrols the grounds of the jail, and enforces chapter 90 there. Nobody is assigned to patrol anywhere else. A high percentage of those who visit inmates drive to the jail with suspended licenses, in unregistered, uninsured MV's. They also frequently have outstanding warrants.H50 said:Otto, I am curious. About a month and a half ago three officers from my department had judge traffic appeals in a Court House in Worcester County. Also present were a few deputies from the Worcester Cty Sheriff's Department that issued civil motor vehicle infractions to a few violators. Where are these citations being written and why do deputies write CMVIs when they should not even have the books. Are they older D series books? Registrar already confirmed that he does not issue any books to the Sheriff Departments because they cannot have them. So if that is the case, who is pulling over cars from your agency and why? You can see that there are plenty of concerns and we all just want some answers.
Also one of the discussions that came up recently with some police officials is that when a deputy pulls a vehicle over and the driver fails to stop. WHat authority does the deputy sheriff have? Clearly Chapter 90 Section 25 states the following:
The law specifically states "POLICE OFFICER". If the law assumed that deputy sheriff have powers to enforce Chapter 90 , then why are they not in the law. Comm. Vs Baez was a bullshit decision that came down with the following: A sheriff may only arrest an operator for an arrestable MV offense if it amounts to the breach of the peace. Therefore a deputy makes the arrest for a breach of peace, disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace and not for an arrestable MV offense.Chapter 90: Section 25 Refusal to submit to police officer
Section 25. Any person who, while operating or in charge of a motor vehicle, shall refuse, when requested by a police officer, to give his name and address or the name and address of the owner of such motor vehicle, or who shall give a false name or address, or who shall refuse or neglect to stop when signalled to stop by any police officer who is in uniform or who displays his badge conspicuously on the outside of his outer coat or garment, or who refuses, on demand of such officer, to produce his license to operate such vehicle or his certificate of registration, or to permit such officer to take the license or certificate in hand for the purpose of examination, or who refuses, on demand of such officer, to sign his name in the presence of such officer, and any person who on the demand of an officer of the police or other officer mentioned in section twenty-nine or authorized by the registrar, without a reasonable excuse fails to deliver his license to operate motor vehicles or the certificate of registration of any motor vehicle operated or owned by him or the number plates furnished by the registrar for said motor vehicle, or who refuses or neglects to produce his license when requested by a court or trial justice, shall be punished by a fine of one hundred dollars.
They also attempt to smuggle in drugs and other contraband. They sometimes hide drugs in trash that they throw on the grounds for inmate cleanup crews to retrieve later.
We generally prosecute 250-300 cases per year. 40 - 50 are felonies. Most involve criminal activity from inside the jail.
The "Baez" decision relies on a misreading of the "Howe" (OUI) case. "Howe" stated OUI is a breach of the peace. Sheriffs can arrest for a breach of the peace. Therefor sheriffs can arrest for OUI.
"Baez" took this to mean that sheriffs can only arrest for a breach of the peace. There is no language in "Howe" creating any such limitation. The "Baez" judge (Greenburg, I think) even stated in his own opinion that it creates a "discordant result."
In any event "Baez" clearly stated that sheriffs have authority to enforce chapter 90. It stated that even in a case where there is no breach of the peace a summons can be sought.
At common law, the sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer. I am not aware of the district attorney having arrest powers.jsg2020 said:Actually, in Mass, I believe the chief County Law Enforcement officer is the District Attorney.k9sheriff said:As for the high sheriff(14 in Massachusetts)they are considered the chief law enforcemnt officer in their counties
1. The DA makes the final decision on prosecution of all criminal cases.Otto said:At common law, the sheriff is the chief law enforcement officer. I am not aware of the district attorney having arrest powers.jsg2020 said:Actually, in Mass, I believe the chief County Law Enforcement officer is the District Attorney.k9sheriff said:As for the high sheriff(14 in Massachusetts)they are considered the chief law enforcemnt officer in their counties
2. I am not sure if they have arrest powers, but if you read this forum enough, apparently "arrest powers" don't preclude you from being considered Law Enforcement. I would DEFINITELY consider the DA Law Enforcement, that's his job.
3. Here we go again with the old moldy statutes and common law. Maybe the Sheriff is the "Chief LE Officer", but I can only imagine what would happen if he attempted to give orders to a local cop or a Trooper...That would be ugly. :twisted:
Enough of this I'm a cop your not a cop talk. Get back on topic.
The problem with this situation are as follows:
(1) Officers losing their jobs to layoffs etc and the town doing without Town Police coverage during the midnight shift.
(2) If true, Sheriffs coming in are going to be doing someone elses job (specifically layed off officers). It is one thing to come in and supplement a department at their request, it is another to completely replace them. If the Sheriff's Department can afford to cover this town, then they should lay off officers and give the money back to the Town, so the Town Officers can remain.
That doesn't sound too fair either, does it? :sb:
The problem with this situation are as follows:
(1) Officers losing their jobs to layoffs etc and the town doing without Town Police coverage during the midnight shift.
(2) If true, Sheriffs coming in are going to be doing someone elses job (specifically layed off officers). It is one thing to come in and supplement a department at their request, it is another to completely replace them. If the Sheriff's Department can afford to cover this town, then they should lay off officers and give the money back to the Town, so the Town Officers can remain.
That doesn't sound too fair either, does it? :sb:
Bartpd, I agree 100%.Didn't mean to stir up the hornets nest, but H50 should do his homework.I do not consider myself a police officer or pretend to the public that I am one.I would have a very hard time if I was ordered to work in a town or city that laid off police officers.But realistically I don't think it will ever happen and I don't worry about it.Like I keep saying blame the Legistature.
many of us have worked in both corrections and as full time police officers -
those of us who have ,would all probably agree that despite semantics, deputies are NOT police - they do not answer 9-1-1 calls and their purpose for being appointed a deputy was to serve civil papers and do jail related work - there is nothing wrong with that and they should be proud of their profession - what prompted me to write this reply is the archaic assertion that the sheriff is the "chiief law enforcement officer in the county "- thats absurd. in plymouth county the sheriff never worked in law enforcement before getting elected - he's not my boss and cannot tell me what to do - actually, i'd give him a citation ,if warranted, as fast as any citizen would get one. he's not special.
c.o's and deputies who earned the position without politics would be shown professional courtesy - but not the plymouth county sheriff himself. he may be chief of the jail, but in no way does he have any authority over State, municipal or campus police officers. with that clarifified, let's get back to the Stoneham topic :wink:
those of us who have ,would all probably agree that despite semantics, deputies are NOT police - they do not answer 9-1-1 calls and their purpose for being appointed a deputy was to serve civil papers and do jail related work - there is nothing wrong with that and they should be proud of their profession - what prompted me to write this reply is the archaic assertion that the sheriff is the "chiief law enforcement officer in the county "- thats absurd. in plymouth county the sheriff never worked in law enforcement before getting elected - he's not my boss and cannot tell me what to do - actually, i'd give him a citation ,if warranted, as fast as any citizen would get one. he's not special.
c.o's and deputies who earned the position without politics would be shown professional courtesy - but not the plymouth county sheriff himself. he may be chief of the jail, but in no way does he have any authority over State, municipal or campus police officers. with that clarifified, let's get back to the Stoneham topic :wink:
2. A summons can be sought? oh yeah thats "clearly" a licence to enforce CH. 89/90Otto said:["Baez" took this to mean that sheriffs can only arrest for a breach of the peace. There is no language in "Howe" creating any such limitation.
The "Baez" judge (Greenburg, I think) even stated in his own opinion that it creates a "discordant result."
1. This was my point earlier; If even the Justice says it will cause a "discordant result" then this is a flag that "that dog don't hunt"
In any event "Baez" clearly stated that sheriffs have authority to enforce chapter 90. It stated that even in a case where there is no breach of the peace a summons can be sought.
Take Howe/Baez/Mullens etc.... and wipe you heinie with em. At the very least stop trying to interpret them like a third year law student. WE are Cops, not members of the Bar, and as a cop I know it is not appropriate for Deputy Sheriffs to "Patrol" the municipality of Stoneham because of CH. 90 case law.
We are talking about responding and providing POLICE response to a variety of situations that potentially involve issues of training/liability/scope/authority/etc. Believe me these are the ISSUES, not CH.90 bullsh*t!!!!!
Let Stoneham PD patrol Stoneham, and if not, call the MSP or at least NEMLEC, it is their area isn't it?
:roll:
MPD, Just because I stated that the court has said sheriffs can enforce chapter 90 does not mean that I think they should be patrolling local communities. That job belongs with the local jurisdiction. I have never suggested otherwise.
Thats fine Otto.............................Otto said:MPD, Just because I stated that the court has said sheriffs can enforce chapter 90 does not mean that I think they should be patrolling local communities. That job belongs with the local jurisdiction. I have never suggested otherwise.
My point (third try) is that if the Justices who sat and reviewed Baez called their own decision a "discordant result", then maybe somebody else should have had another try.
At the very least, it leaves it wide open for arm chair-experts (us) to argue until we're blue in the face. For the above identified reasons I agree with H50 and others in this thread= Baez is basically Crap!
8)
It is nice that you don't advocate your fellow deputies patrolling Stoneham.
:wink:
Macop wrote:
"This may piss you all off, but too bad, send em to the M.P.O.C and patrol, I agree with it won't work out in Eastern, Ma but many cops in parts of central and most of Western, MA specifically Frankling county and parts of Berkshire county that deputies would be very welcomed. Again its different out here so it would work and be more welcomed by cops out here, again it is very different out there for obvious reasons. Just for the record, I work with the Sheriff's dept alot, they house out prisinors and I bump into the guys in civil division that look fo people or serve papers. I tell them if they are in my town and see some shit to call me or enforce it, and they remind me that the last thing they want to do is be cops."
We dont need them out here in the Berkshires, the 2 Troopers can handle all the calls in the 16 towns, 10 of which dont have police depts. We have been doing it for a long time without their help and we dont need it now.. You guys can keep your problems with the SD out in the East, we dont have that problem out here.
"This may piss you all off, but too bad, send em to the M.P.O.C and patrol, I agree with it won't work out in Eastern, Ma but many cops in parts of central and most of Western, MA specifically Frankling county and parts of Berkshire county that deputies would be very welcomed. Again its different out here so it would work and be more welcomed by cops out here, again it is very different out there for obvious reasons. Just for the record, I work with the Sheriff's dept alot, they house out prisinors and I bump into the guys in civil division that look fo people or serve papers. I tell them if they are in my town and see some shit to call me or enforce it, and they remind me that the last thing they want to do is be cops."
We dont need them out here in the Berkshires, the 2 Troopers can handle all the calls in the 16 towns, 10 of which dont have police depts. We have been doing it for a long time without their help and we dont need it now.. You guys can keep your problems with the SD out in the East, we dont have that problem out here.
I think this topic has been beat to death... even I don't comment anymore on the Deputies for patrol, can you believe it?!?! :shock:
I'm the last who wants to se laid off cops, I almost became one myself. But Stoneham isnt a small hil town like the ones out here, face reality. If they did layoff the midshift who is gonna police the area? I imagine the Sheriff has a separate budge and could help until the town could rehire the cops. If the Police administration planned to layof cops and to call the Sheriff to save money then we should all scream bloody murder inthe streets. Do you really think SP is gonna spend money have extra Troopers patrol the town. It would wrok out here but we have small towns and Troopers are already patroling but in Eastern MA its a much different animal.
just my :2c:
just my :2c:
It has happened before; I believe MSP had to handle some issue with Chelsea when Flynn was Chief there.Macop said:I'm the last who wants to se laid off cops, I almost became one myself. But Stoneham isnt a small hil town like the ones out here, face reality. If they did layoff the midshift who is gonna police the area? I imagine the Sheriff has a separate budge and could help until the town could rehire the cops. If the Police administration planned to layof cops and to call the Sheriff to save money then we should all scream bloody murder inthe streets. Do you really think SP is gonna spend money have extra Troopers patrol the town. It would wrok out here but we have small towns and Troopers are already patroling but in Eastern MA its a much different animal.
just my :2c:
Sheriffs
First of all, only a Chief of Police or the Colonel can issue ticket books... (and maybe one or two others BUT the SHERIFF cannot issue a Deputy a ticket book!!
Any town or police officer that wants to pm and tell what towns are available in A-Troop to cover ANY detail that the MSP cannot fill please do so and from what I understand you will be in front of any correction officer.
While they say ONE thing Worcester does another....
One of their Deputies parades as a part time hubardston (SP??) cop on the task force, this is the same Deputy that went to Framingham PD and offered their services to buy dope and do detective work thereby taking jobs from union police officers!!!
Let get one thing straight. The Sheriff's will NEVER get the respect until they have a test for all positions and for promotions instead of buying it with $$$$$
Again , again again, yes yes yes, not ALL Deputies buy their job but a % do and it taints all of them!!!!
The "Special Services Unit" of the Worcester CO SO should be comprised of people that worked hard and earned it but instead are a bunch of hacks and people that are connected.... They go to hawaii and get a prisoner and bring how many people???? What discipline got handed out???
They use jobs handed out to union police officers kids to win over PD's.......
First of all, only a Chief of Police or the Colonel can issue ticket books... (and maybe one or two others BUT the SHERIFF cannot issue a Deputy a ticket book!!
Any town or police officer that wants to pm and tell what towns are available in A-Troop to cover ANY detail that the MSP cannot fill please do so and from what I understand you will be in front of any correction officer.
While they say ONE thing Worcester does another....
One of their Deputies parades as a part time hubardston (SP??) cop on the task force, this is the same Deputy that went to Framingham PD and offered their services to buy dope and do detective work thereby taking jobs from union police officers!!!
Let get one thing straight. The Sheriff's will NEVER get the respect until they have a test for all positions and for promotions instead of buying it with $$$$$
Again , again again, yes yes yes, not ALL Deputies buy their job but a % do and it taints all of them!!!!
The "Special Services Unit" of the Worcester CO SO should be comprised of people that worked hard and earned it but instead are a bunch of hacks and people that are connected.... They go to hawaii and get a prisoner and bring how many people???? What discipline got handed out???
They use jobs handed out to union police officers kids to win over PD's.......
File this one under INCREDIBLY STUPID.......
The House 88-63 failed to gain the two-thirds margin necessary to override Gov. Romney's veto of a section providing $2 million to fund part of the Suffolk County's class action lawsuit settlement with some 5,400 women who were illegally strip searched at the Suffolk County Jail. The House later reconsidered the matter, several representatives changed their votes and the veto was overridden 111-39. Override supporters said that Suffolk County has already paid $2.2 million and simply cannot afford the additional $2 million without making major budget cuts that would decimate the prison's budget and affect public safety :?: :roll: Override opponets said that the lawsuit is the responsibility of Suffolk County and argued that the state should not have to pay for this. They said it is outrageous for the state to provide additional funding for one favored and powerful county when many other communites and counties across the state are also feeling the budget crunch and could use additional state funds. :shock:
HEY LAWMAKERS! DO YOU THINK THIS ADDITONAL MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN USED TO HELP SMALL TOWNS LIKE STONEHAM KEEP THEIR COPS????? WHY NOT SELL OFF SOME FANCY TOYS FROM THE GRAND ARMY OF THE SHERIFF FOR EXTRA FUNDS?????
and people wonder why there is such animosity on this thread.......
The House 88-63 failed to gain the two-thirds margin necessary to override Gov. Romney's veto of a section providing $2 million to fund part of the Suffolk County's class action lawsuit settlement with some 5,400 women who were illegally strip searched at the Suffolk County Jail. The House later reconsidered the matter, several representatives changed their votes and the veto was overridden 111-39. Override supporters said that Suffolk County has already paid $2.2 million and simply cannot afford the additional $2 million without making major budget cuts that would decimate the prison's budget and affect public safety :?: :roll: Override opponets said that the lawsuit is the responsibility of Suffolk County and argued that the state should not have to pay for this. They said it is outrageous for the state to provide additional funding for one favored and powerful county when many other communites and counties across the state are also feeling the budget crunch and could use additional state funds. :shock:
HEY LAWMAKERS! DO YOU THINK THIS ADDITONAL MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN USED TO HELP SMALL TOWNS LIKE STONEHAM KEEP THEIR COPS????? WHY NOT SELL OFF SOME FANCY TOYS FROM THE GRAND ARMY OF THE SHERIFF FOR EXTRA FUNDS?????
and people wonder why there is such animosity on this thread.......
Well, as MT1 said, this is beat to death. The topic is Stonham PD. Clearly, we are way off topic. So, for that reason, this thread is closed.
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