[Clouseau]

I was in Middlesex Superior court last week.
Being a professional observer, I noticed a big box of CMVI's that were just delivered to the court house....hmmmm.

I ask around and find out the good sheriff is going to start training a select group of his men...in the fine art of stopping cars.

Any Middlesex sheriffs on this board care to elaborate?

At one time...early in my career, I was all for the more the merrier point of view. Now I know about all the b.s. that goes on.

I can see the station commander running 5-6 cars short, not filling the cruisers with overtime slots for minimum manning, and getting rid of sector cars since they're no longer needed because the sheriffs have cruisers patrolling...because the sheriffs are out there if we need them etc.

I can see it now. I see them jumping on calls.... I see the car chases....I see the manpower of the cities and towns dwindling away.....

I see Middlesex, then Suffolk, then Essex...where does it end?

Tell me it isn't so.

{No disrespect meant to any deputies. Their boss....well...}

 

[Guest]

This is the result when the MSP is slowly removed from it's traditional roles. When chiefs, dreaming of grandeur, and their followers convince legislatures and grant providers that "other" agencies should assume interjurisdictional duties. What did you think would happen when instead of demanding that the MSP be funded to assist your towns, that you let the sheriffs join the 'LEC parade.
I am not totally against the idea of the 'LECs, if they worked with the MSP and enhanced the interagency response to emergencies. Cooperating w/ STOP or calling out the SERT the first day, is how it should be. Not nudging the MSP out the back door.
The elected office of the high sheriff will use the local PD's to enhance it's own LE role. The it will seek to be the premier LE agency and leave the locals in the dust. :sb:

 

[MarkBoston]

This is the result when the MSP is slowly removed from it's traditional roles. When chiefs, dreaming of grandeur, and their followers convince legislatures and grant providers that "other" agencies should assume interjurisdictional duties. What did you think would happen when instead of demanding that the MSP be funded to assist your towns, that you let the sheriffs join the 'LEC parade.
I am not totally against the idea of the 'LECs, if they worked with the MSP and enhanced the interagency response to emergencies. Cooperating w/ STOP or calling out the SERT the first day, is how it should be. Not nudging the MSP out the back door.
The elected office of the high sheriff will use the local PD's to enhance it's own LE role. The it will seek to be the premier LE agency and leave the locals in the dust. :sb:

May I ask what you consider the traditional role of the Massachusetts State Police is?

 

[JoninNH]

Oh God, not again... I can feel this turning into another Department vs. Department, knock down, drag out fight again where people make dyer predictions about the future... <mocking> if the Sheriffs write Chapter 90 cites pretty soon the MSP will be out of a job... if the Campus Police start writing Chapter 90 cites, the town cops will be out of a job.... when is it going to end? Maybe its because 90% of my experience is outside of MA but I don't really see how the whole Commonwealth will fall apart over Chapter 90 authority. Local cops, sheriffs and state police in some neighboring states all have motor vehicle athority, they all can issue tickets for traffic violations, and they all get along just fine. The local police don't get thier panties all up in a bunch because a deputy sheriff stopped a guy going 62 in a 40 on DW Highway... but it seems like on this board everyone is complaining about other Law Enforcement Officers doing the best they can. So what if a sheriff's deputy stops someone for a motor vehicle infraction. So what?! I understand departmental pride, but give me a break. We are all here to do a job and go home safe and unharmed to our loved ones or our Sports Center and get back up and do it all over again, not to beat our heads into a wall because *gasp* someone else is stopping cars on the road tonight!

If the Admins want me to move this to another thread, I'm happy to do so. Gil, if you'd like to suspend me for being pessimistic, I'm fine with that. I am just so tired of the bickering back and forth about who's a cop and who's not, who should be stopping cars, and who shouldn't, who should have blue lights, and who shouldn't. Maybe its just me, maybe its the fact that I just got off a miserable 16 hour shift and I'm in a cranky mood, but can't we all just get along like the professionals we all are?

 

[MC1010]

Let them write their V's and take my job.....next time I bring a prisoner to their jail, i will do all the prcessing needed to get them into the jai systeml.....as long as they let me do their job inside the walls when my job becomes obsolete, i am all for it........see how they would like an outsider taking over their job... If you want to be a cop, take the test like everyone else, you want to be a CO, then stay in the correctional system. I left the correctional system to be a cop, not a cop AND a CO.....

Posted Mon September 13, 2004 10:31 pm:

yes, i have a few spelling errors on my last post, but its been a LONG day and I got cranked up with this post........ sorry..

Posted Mon September 13, 2004 10:32 pm:

Let them write their V's and take my job.....next time I bring a prisoner to their jail, i will do all the processing needed to get them into the jail system.....as long as they let me do their job inside the walls when my job becomes obsolete, i am all for it........see how they would like an outsider taking over their job... If you want to be a cop, take the test like everyone else, you want to be a CO, then stay in the correctional system. I left the correctional system to be a cop, not a cop AND a CO.....

 

[pucknut]

Here we go again!

 

[Guest]

JoninNH, didn't mean to cause an uproar. Subjects like this are easy to get stirred up about. You must admit, some of these topics are the most interesting to read; As long as no one is personally attacked. This is the place to do it, instead of the side of the road like years past :A: . Spice every once and a while is good. Just reading about the best MGL to us gets mundane. :sl:

Overall most of us work great together. The issue is when one agency lets its ego get in the way of better judgement. Like I said in the previous post, if an agency responds to a situation and obviously could use more manpower/expertise (such as a recent southshore missing person search) then don't wait three days to call.
I prefer the teamwork and then a beer afterwards :t:

 

[mpd61]

Does make you grin though.......................................
Citations by the boxful to the sheriff, while certain Police can't even pick their own up in Randolph.
:roll:

 

[VTCOP]

Hey, maybe mass will come out of the stone age and instate a full state authority for all LEO's and sheriffs and campus cops and railroad police like Vermont!



NAH, nevermind, that would be too easy.

 

[JoninNH]

Hey, maybe mass will come out of the stone age and instate a full state authority for all LEO's and sheriffs and campus cops and railroad police like Vermont!

... and like New Hampshire.

NAH, nevermind, that would be too easy.

Too easy, less political and very intelligent. In short, it'll never happen.

 

[thumper2168]

Yeah lets waste some more money, are you ^%&amp;*(^ me... Lets make another Metro police and Capital Police and lets make a couple more Chief's, Head of the Negotiation Unit, Assistant to the assistant to the SWAT team Commander so they all feel like they are somebody. Why don't we all do what Boston does and lock people up and do your jobs. Take the test, stop paying for jobs (yes again until ALL Sheriff's stop paying for badges they will ALL be tainted) Have some respect for yourself and the job

 

[JoninNH]

Yeah lets waste some more money, are you ^%&*(^ me... Lets make another Metro police and Capital Police and lets make a couple more Chief's, Head of the Negotiation Unit, Assistant to the assistant to the SWAT team Commander so they all feel like they are somebody. Why don't we all do what Boston does and lock people up and do your jobs. Take the test, stop paying for jobs (yes again until ALL Sheriff's stop paying for badges they will ALL be tainted) Have some respect for yourself and the job

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[pucknut]

This is the result when the MSP is slowly removed from it's traditional roles. When chiefs, dreaming of grandeur, and their followers convince legislatures and grant providers that "other" agencies should assume interjurisdictional duties. What did you think would happen when instead of demanding that the MSP be funded to assist your towns, that you let the sheriffs join the 'LEC parade.
I am not totally against the idea of the 'LECs, if they worked with the MSP and enhanced the interagency response to emergencies. Cooperating w/ STOP or calling out the SERT the first day, is how it should be. Not nudging the MSP out the back door.
The elected office of the high sheriff will use the local PD's to enhance it's own LE role. The it will seek to be the premier LE agency and leave the locals in the dust. :sb:

May I ask what you consider the traditional role of the Massachusetts State Police is?

Why does everything turn into a State Police vs.everybody rant? What does the LEC's have to dol with this thread? Dont lump all Deputy Sheriff's in with the obvious guy that is going overboard.

 

[dcs2244]

JoninNH, saw your previous post inre: locals/sheriffs/SP getting along fine in other states. Not in New York: NYSP and the various sheriffs offices do not 'get along'. Troopers from the Lee and Pittsfield barracks can confirm that. There are always exceptions (some guys get along at the personal level, but there is an overall clash between the state and county departments). And even in NY, not every sheriff's department has a road patrol...it depends on the county tax base...but all the county sheriffs have a jail, as that is there PRIMARY responsibility.

I think thumper's point was: too many cooks spoil the broth. With sharply defined jurisdictions, the people will be able to determine who is responsible for what. While a local writing a ticket on a highway in his jurisdiction is of no moment, when there is a wreck on that same highway, it is the responsibility of the state police.

I guess it all comes down to accountability. If you have the sheriff/mets/locals trying to be all things to all people, who is accountable? Who adjusted the matter? Was it covered by the state or local PD? It is more efficient and effective to keep it simple, and to keep the number of agencies to a minimum.

 

[Clouseau]

Take the test, stop paying for jobs (yes again until ALL Sheriff's stop paying for badges they will ALL be tainted) Have some respect for yourself and the job

.........................................................................................................................................
Thumper, why would you say such a thing?.........Lol.
....................................................................................

Frauds flash fake badges: 'Deputy' perk out of control
By Ann E. Donlan
Thursday, September 16, 2004

Hundreds of deputy sheriff badges have made it into civilian hands throughout Massachusetts with virtually no way for officials to know who has them, regulate their use or even get them back, a Herald review has found.

The problem has become so severe that many sheriffs have stopped the longtime perk of handing out badges to ``reserve'' or ``special'' deputies - a practice now banned in Suffolk, Essex, Plymouth and Bristol counties.

Sheriffs said there have been concerns about civilians with the honorary badges that carry no police powers flashing them to avoid parking and traffic tickets, improperly serve civil documents, or worse - using them to pull over vehicles or even to impersonate police officers.

But the practice of distributing the badges continues in Middlesex County, where a private, nonprofit association feeds a pool of reserve deputy nominees to Sheriff James V. DiPaola, who assists in performing criminal background checks and swearing in civilian reserve deputy sheriffs.

Yet DiPaola said, ``Nobody has police powers in Middlesex County that they're not qualified to have. Anybody can get a badge. It's like a gun.''

In Middlesex County, the Middlesex County Deputy Sheriffs' Association, a private, nonprofit group that does charitable community work, charges prospective members a $50 membership fee, according to President Michael M. Giacoppo. The group has 900 members.

DiPaola said the sheriff's department does a criminal background check for the applicant even though the association is ``completely independent (from) the sheriff.'' But Giacoppo said it is up to each member to provide a CORI arrest record.

``I suppose if the sheriff wanted to do a CORI, he could do a CORI, but we didn't ask him to,'' Giacoppo said.

The association then provides an identification card designating the holder as a reserve deputy sheriff, which the applicant takes to a police supply company to buy the badge, Giacoppo said.

``There are millions of badges out there that look like an official badge,'' DiPaola said. ``Every single person that is a member of that reserve association is investigated. People get refused all the time not to come into that association. We run a very, very strict organization. There is zero tolerance of any misuse.''

Former Public Safety Secretary Thomas Rapone called on the state's sheriffs in 1993 to end the practice of naming honorary or special sheriffs.

But Katie Ford, spokeswoman for current Secretary Edward M. Flynn, said, ``We really don't have jurisdiction over the sheriff's departments.''

Essex Sheriff Frank Cousins, who revoked civilian deputy sheriff commissions in 1996, said, ``It's very difficult to control. There's liability there.''

Suffolk Sheriff Andrea Cabral sent letters in 2002 to 65 then-badge holders asking them to surrender the shields.

``It's almost impossible to get people to turn them in,'' Cabral said. ``I don't know whether we received any from anyone. It's a challenge sometimes to track them down.''

 

[MarkBoston]

Since someone else has already jumped slightly off topic I figure I'll toss this in.
I have seen many badges throughout the years. Just in this state alone there are badges for just about everybody who holds a government job. I have seen badges for Building Inspectors, Plumbing Inspectors, Wiring Inspectors, Tax Collectors, Town Clerks, Assessors, Commissioners of all types, and my personal favorite, Police Commissioner. It seems that if somewhere in the MGL's a person has a speck of authority over something then a badge is given to them.

Most of us know that the driver of the car you stop is going to assist you in making the decision to write or not within 10 seconds of your first question to him/her. So do I like the fact that some people are running around with a badge for no reason at all? No, I dislike it. I have found that most dumb people dig their own graves&#8230;we are just here to toss the dirt back in after they lay down.

 

[JoninNH]

It was really, really, REALLY bad in another New England state... (CT) by the end of the day I'll post some doozies from the Attorney Generals Report... they had some "honorary special civilian sheriffs" actually serving warrants along side regular deputies in a borrowed uniform. :shock:

In New London County, there are examples of unauthorized private individuals
being issued Special Deputy Sheriff badges and identification cards. These
individuals used this unauthorized status to purchase firearms and high-capacity
weapon magazines. At least one of these individuals, who is an oral surgeon, even
assisted in the service of a capias on more than one occasion, including
handcuffing and searching a person who was arrested. :shock: :shock:

Fairfield County Sheriff Charles Valentino appointed people as "Honorary
Deputy Sheriffs" in exchange for paying $150 to the Fairfield County Sheriffs
Association, Inc. Honorary Deputy Sheriffs in Fairfield County received a sheriff
badge, an identification card in the same form as that used for Deputy Sheriffs,
and a commission authorizing them to exercise the office of Deputy Sheriff.

In Litchfield County, individuals joining the sheriff association received a sheriff
badge upon paying initial membership dues of $75 to the Litchfield County
Sheriff Association. For a short period of time Litchfield County Sheriff Richard
Zaharek also appointed a handful of individuals associated with the Torrington
Fish & Game Association, Inc. to the nonexistent position of "Associate Deputy
Sheriff."

In an interview he was asked questions about posessing the badge and what was said to him by the Sheriff...

Q. So he indicated to you that after you had this badge, if he called upon you
to serve papers, you'd be authorized to do so?
A. Yeah.
Q. Is there anything else that he said you'd be authorized to do?
A. Get free train tickets. I remember that, to get free train tickets to New York
or whatnot because I remember saying I was going to New York this weekend.
And we had talked about what we were going to do, and I said, oh, I was going to
New York this weekend and he said this would be the best thing to use, show your
badge and you will get a free ticket. It didn't work.&#8230;

Oh, it gets better...

The New London County Sheriff Department improperly authorized Deputy
Sheriffs and Special Deputy Sheriffs to make personal purchases of firearms and
weapon magazines, including items of a type restricted to law enforcement use.
Documents associated with many firearms transactions show the seller to be the
New London County Sheriff Department. These weapons never appeared in
sheriff property inventories. Firearms transactions? Oh my!!!

Anyone interested can read the entire thing at http://www.cslib.org/attygenl/press/2000/other/sheriffi.pdf

Oh, by-the-way, Conneticut no longer has sheriffs or sheriffs departments... wonder why. :shock:

 

[USMCTrooper]

Oh, by-the-way, Conneticut no longer has sheriffs or sheriffs departments... wonder why. :shock:

Because Connecticut figured out what Massachusetts hasn't been able to. :shock:

They did this years ago and the State didn't crumble apart. In fact, you talk to CTSP & locals (even some locals here and they overwhelmingly say it was a great move and long overdue.

 

[SOT]

I was just thinking, now that LEO's can carry interstate (presumably so) I wonder what effect this will have out of state or acros state lines.

Another thought...maybe thats why the Sheriff's Department got all those citations, maybe they are going to start putting their honorary deputies to work....

 

[Killjoy]

That's the problem with Sheriff's departments in general; an organization lacks professionalism if someone can essentially PURCHASE a badge and ID. You don't see people donating to charities for SPAM or the BPA getting badges and ID's; they get a bumper sticker, at best. This is one of the major factors in why most police oppose patrolling deputies in MA; no competitive examinations or stringent hiring processes. Sure, there are individual deputies out there that could and probably would be good street cops, but with the way sheriffs are organized you can't tell the good deputies from the clowns that donated some money or held up a sign during election time.