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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
if the current sheriff in the county i live in gets re-elected, rumor is that he will seek assistance from the local state senator and state rep to get RMV citation books. currently i believe that only police chiefs can issue them - this could change if he succeeds.. how do you feel about deputies forming radar teams and enforcing traffic on the highways or local roads ? the more the merrier or not their job and they are unwelcome ? could this legislation to allow them to do civil traffic enforcement pass ? think about the sheriff in Bristol County who had deputies patrolling New Bedford- they were kicked out - any precedent set ? let's keep this respectfull so it does not get locked-
no insults, us vs.them stuff - could and should it happen - why or why not ??
 

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jimbo @ Sun 31 Oct said:
how do you feel about deputies forming radar teams and enforcing traffic on the highways or local roads ?
If they are properly trained and do not overstep their authority I have no problem with it
jimbo @ Sun 31 Oct said:
the more the merrier or not their job and they are unwelcome
More the merrier but there absolutely needs to be a professional working relationship between agencies or it could be very dangerous
jimbo @ Sun 31 Oct said:
think about the sheriff in Bristol County who had deputies patrolling New Bedford- they were kicked out - any precedent set ?
Actually in the New Bedford case the Sheriff withdrew his Deputies voluntarily. In the court case the judge made an initial judgement that the sheriff's detp. had the authority to patrol within the county without the consent of the local PD and refused to order the deputies out of the city. The case was continued and eventually dropped at the request of the city.
jimbo @ Sun 31 Oct said:
could and should it happen - why or why not??
I'm guessing it could pretty easily seeing as the case law (Baez & Mullen) and statues (90s1) that are laid out to allow it. Should it is a much more difficult question to answer. Law enforcement is typically very resistant to major changes and this could end up hurting the professional image of law enforcement overall . But on the other hand if sheriff's dept.'s become more professional (education standards, academy and FTO training, and recruitment of personnel based on qualifications not political hooks) it could be a good thing especially in some towns in my part of the state that only have 2 sector cars on at night and MSP is stretched very thin. Although I feel that if a sheriff's dept. unable to run their correctional facilities in an efficient and effective manner then the last thing they should be worried about is patrol.
 

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Just curious do the cops in Billerica, Norfolk, Cambridge, Plymouth, etc just show up at the Jails and start gaurding prisoners????? That's right I didn't think so, the Sheriff should keep his people in the jails. A 10 or 14 week corrections academy probably dosent address the various Ch 90 rights of arrest, admin inspections, field sobriety testing, patrol interdiction, consent searches, the MV exception doctrine, etc.

Yes I am well aware that many Deputies have been to that fancy Reserve Academy (I once went many moons ago). However my Dept does not have reserve trained officers, so the reserve trained deputies should not be patrolling.

I hope I never hear "should we fil these open shifts tonite......... no we'll just call the sherrif there here for free."
 

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Well said, Miamivice. They should stay in the jails where they belong. That is the profession they chose. ](*,) If they wanted to be a police officer then shame on them for choosing the wrong profession. [-X I work in a small town near the Worcester house of correction and the last thing I want is the selectman getting word that they can use the sheriffs dept. instead of us for overtime/sickday shifts. I believe that this is where this is leading. If it comes down to that, they better not call on me for back-up or legal advice.
 

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WOW!!!!
:shock:
The fur is going to fly AGAIN!

In the context of this thread, Sheriffs are responsible for many things, within a fixed budget. If he/she wants to start spending public $$$ (budget) on duplicating what State, Municipal, Campus and other police agencies do, let them try to justify it. I'm sure CH. 90 enforcement by deputies will help with making the HOC's more secure. And let's not forget how much Homeland Security will be enhanced.
:roll:
Baez and Mullins were both case law that the justices even admitted were convoluted and conflicting. (garbage) :rd: :uc:

1. CH.90C s.1 doesn't say "sheriff" anywhere.
2. CH.90C s.2 "each police chief shall issue citation books to each permanent full-time officer of his department..........and to such other officers as he at his discretion may determine."

This foolishness has been flogged for too long. Sheriffs Dept's in a few other states are
police officers by statute, practice, training, budget, and necessity. But this is Massachusetts and they don't have that here. Especially the last which is need!
:musicboo:
 

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I am totally against Sheriff getting ch90! I would bet my career if the Sheriff had ch90 right now Danver's would have them take over MV enforcement to end the "silient strike" and the town would be fighting the union trying to fire/layoff as many cops as they could to save money. There are a few small benefits to giving the Sheriff ch90 but overall its a bad deal for all us cops as I can just see everytime a prop 2 1/2% failed to pass, the towns cut police stating the Sheriff has us covered. :up_yours: :fu2:

Give the Sheriff CH90 in :francais: then we'll all :rock: :BNANA: :GNANA: :DB: :baby01: :baby13: :t:
 

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A 10 or 14 week corrections academy probably dosent address the various Ch 90 rights of arrest, admin inspections, field sobriety testing, patrol interdiction, consent searches, the MV exception doctrine, etc.

However my Dept does not have reserve trained officers, so the reserve trained deputies should not be patrolling.

I hope I never hear "should we fil these open shifts tonite......... no we'll just call the sherrif there here for free."
1. As far as training I am aware of the corrections academies being 10 - 14 weeks as well. Do they cover constitutional law, motor vehicle law (including Radar/Lidar/FST/BT Certification), criminal law, 94C or are they more oriented to the issues within corrections? If they do cover those topics, are there any requirements for in-service training, law updates, etc? My point being, if the sherriffs academies do not teach these topics, and a sherriffs officer makes a stop for a CMVI and comes up with more than they bargin for, they may be in a situation where they are not trained properly. But again, not sure what exactly they teach in their academies.

2. On the subject of reserve deputies, we all know the horror stories lately about some just making contributions and being given badges. If the full-time deputies only perform M/V stops on a limited basis at the present time, how much experience to the reserve deputies have to be performing stops? Or are they usually used in a different capacity?

3. I can definately see selectmen getting the bright idea to suppliment their force with Sherriffs Officers because of motivations such as contract negotiations not going well, disaproval with the Chief, not wanting to pay overtime or increase staffing levels rather than resolve differences. We know how many problems "town fathers" can cause because of their own ego's and political gain. Decisons like that would only divide the law enforcment entities rather than promote cooperation due to them being used in labor dispute situations.

If any Sheriffs Deputies/Officers or CO's that would like to offer anything that would be appreciated, especially on the subject of the academy training and what it entails, that would be greatly appreaciated to foster more discussion (not arguments so it gets locked).
 

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My only question is what the hell is the point? It's not like out west or south where there is land inbetween towns/cities that makes it practical to have a sheriffs dept. working as a police dept. but with more jurisdiction. Up here we have town line to town line which is covered by the Municipals and any other statewide roads or local overlapping is up to the State Police. It might not be a bad a idea in theory, but if there's no need for it, then I can't help but think it will only lead to problems amongst LEOs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
if this jamoke gets re-elected, i predict you will see deputies doing radar on the highway and local streets - and advertising it with a phone number to call for radar requests - naturally with the sheriffs name prominently displayed for political purposes.... my state senator and state rep would probably help to push this possible legislation through - would yours ??? are you sure...
 

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This particular topic tends to pop up with every County. I think its inevitable that someday we will see Counties on Patrol. I think its only been "luck" that they haven't been out and about already. Sheriff's already have Chapter 90 powers and can give them to any Sworn deputy they want. If they wanted to start street patrols tomorrow they can. The so'called "reserve deputies" (the ones that are badged for giving cash$$) are different than Sworn deputies. The money "Reserve Deputies" are (in most counties) limited to serving Civil Process ONLY and can NOT enforce Criminal Laws and have NO Law Enforcement authority.

In the Sheriff's departments there are "Deputies" and there are "Corrections Officers"... their authority differ.... Although we may generally call them all "Deputies", only the SWORN Deputies are "Deputies" as they are NOT all SWORN.

I'm sure Pearlonyx or someone else in a CSO can chime in on this.

My only question is what the hell is the point? It's not like out west or south where there is land inbetween towns/cities that makes it practical to have a sheriffs dept. working as a police dept. but with more jurisdiction. Up here we have town line to town line which is covered by the Municipals and any other statewide roads or local overlapping is up to the State Police. It might not be a bad a idea in theory, but if there's no need for it, then I can't help but think it will only lead to problems amongst LEOs.
If they are the same Deputies assigned to the same area each night, then what is the difference if they also patrol? Especially west of Worcester, there is plenty of rural area for them to patrol . In the smaller towns you may see 3 officers at one call -- and ALL 3 Officers are from 3 different towns because each town only has ONE on duty. The only real issue I have with "deputies on Patrol" is that there needs to be something laid out stipulating that towns CANNOT factor in County patrols because the area is too large for them to be dependable for call response and must continue to maintain there own Police Dept.
 

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If there was a need I would say bring them on. But this I just don't see it. How much chapter 90 do we need ? ? ? :roll:
If this goes through you can see the writing on the wall. The sheriffs will be telling the town and city fathers how they can save $ by getting rid of local police and contracting with the sheriff dept.
It happens in Florida.
 

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RPD931 @ 01 Nov 2004 05:03 said:
Sheriff's already have Chapter 90 powers and can give them to any Sworn deputy they want. If they wanted to start street patrols tomorrow they can.

Absolute garbage!!!!! Quote MGL that specifically states Sheriffs can do this! I'll bet you'll have to try say Baez & Mullins, but that's crap!

The only real issue I have with "deputies on Patrol" is that there needs to be something laid out stipulating that towns CANNOT factor in County patrols because the area is too large for them to be dependable for call response and must continue to maintain there own Police Dept.
More garbage!!!! You're pointing out that; a) County patrols would be unreliable and b) that towns would still be forced to maintain their own Police Dept. WTF????
:shock:

I am not ripping mad about this issue, but come on, you can take the PD test in April 05, go to law school, or run for sheriff. Otherwise please give this up!
:wink:
 

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if this jamoke gets re-elected, i predict you will see deputies doing radar on the highway and local streets - and advertising it with a phone number to call for radar requests - naturally with the sheriffs name prominently displayed for political purposes.... my state senator and state rep would probably help to push this possible legislation through - would yours ??? are you sure...
Some very good points have been brought up regarding the Sheriffs getting chapter 90 powers, patrols etc... and while I am still open to discussion about the extra duties that Hodgson has been attempting to implement, I simply will not vote for a convicted felon with an alleged 9th grade education to run a correctional institution. My reasons for wanting Hodgson re-elected are focused on what he has done in the prison and with prison related programs for the last 7 1/2 years. I am all for the volunteer chain gangs aka "tandem work crews," and limitations on inmate rights (limited television, no weights, smokes etc...). As far as the New Bedford incident I agree that Hodgson did cross the line, as for being kicked out of New Bedford I am pretty sure that he withdrew his deputies voluntarily after all of the media attention his decision created.

I am not disagreeing with the concern of many that if the Sheriff's are given the ability to enforce motor vehicle laws and allowed to patrol freely throughout their counties that it may cost us positions both at the local and state level. I just don't want someone who is soft on crime running a prison. Pelletier, who refers to his felony conviction in the courts as "no big deal" in my opinion is soft on crime.

While Hodgson has done some things in the past that I have not agreed with and the fact that I think he focuses a little too much on media attention I still will be voting for him on the 2nd. Pelletier in my opinion is simply not the man for the job.

Posted Mon Nov 01, 09:09:

Just what county are you refering to, if I can be so nosey?
Bristol
 

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Man oh Man there is a big us versus them mentality around here. The irony of the whole situation is this. Some of the law enforcement sheriffs are retired police officers. If they do start patrols and chap. 90 it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
 

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:eek:nfire: I believe as it stand now Sheriff's can only write a citation for a breach of the peace.
Not all Correction Officer's are deputies. To become a Deputy You have to attend at least a part time Police Academy just like a special or PI in a town.

Sheriff's are there to support the local police Departments by supplying Dogs BCI or even a Dive Team if needed
I not believe that sheriffs will start coming in to anyones town and start enforcing chap. 90's Who is going to pay them The County? I not think so.
 

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Since County Government was all but eliminated here in MA in the mid 90's, as far as I know ALL of the Sheriffs Deputies/CO's are STATE employee's, thats right their check is from the Comm. of MA.


I pay enough taxes, I expect the MSP to be on the Highways, and a the Airport and the Pike, and to have their special units to augment cities and towns (K9-Air-Dive-SERT-etc)

I expect MEMA to handle diasters and such.

DOC to run the State Prisons

My Local PD to Patrol the Town

and last and least- Sheriffs to run the County jail and transport prisoners. This isn't TX or FL, or anywhere else where Sheriffs Patrol County Property and unincorporated areas. Since the mid 90's there is NO MORE County property, it all belongs to the State (Courts, Jails, etc).

If the Sheriffs want to do something useful, how about coming to the local PD's and State Barracks with a Van once a shift and picking up prisoners!!!
 
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Why is the Sheriff allowed the money to put into these sworn deputy positions? Any extra money that the state has should be directed to more MSP patrol positions (which are needed) or aid to Local PDs. How is this allowed with both SPAM, MPA, etc. always pushing legislatures for more money?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
TOMFIN, do not doubt for a second that a sheriff, particularly the one in my county, would, if re-elected for 6 years seek Ch 90 books and form county wide radar teams. the job of a sheriff is an elected position - radar teams would allow him to put out even more adds and brochures touting a program he provides ... name recognition and results equal re-election... you can also be assured that they would have a phone number to call to request radar at certain locations (circumventing the local/state police). this jamoke seeks to have "county police" - - could it spread state wide - possibly... personally i think the sheriffs dept jobs are too political - i have no problem with Co's, career K9 guys and transportation deputies - i do have issues with part time deputies who think they are police.... by the way, why does it say "Dial 9-1-1" on sheriffs dept cars in this county...they never answer or respond to 9-1-1 calls where I work...think it shows the mentality and objective.....stay tuned and remember to vote.
 

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My thoughts on the Sheriff Patrols are simple.. I don't want anyone to lose their Jobs, Local or state. But it just seems like the writing is on the wall.

I am not ripping mad about this issue, but come on, you can take the PD test in April 05, go to law school, or run for sheriff. Otherwise please give this up!
Took the last test, did VERY well. I'll take it again. I work as a part-time PO now, most towns near me are non-civil circus.... I'm not a Deputy Sheriff, nor am I look to become one. But like I said, the writing is on the wall.
 
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