Seems like too much force | Page 4 | MassCops

Seems like too much force

Discussion in 'Law Enforcement Articles' started by res2244, May 26, 2020.

  1. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    There would have to be a complete retooling of police training if our country descends into a true low intensity conflict. Patrol officers aren't trained or equipped anywhere close to being able to handle coordinated paramilitary attacks. I'd say even most SWAT teams, including many of the big full time units, are not set up to handle large scale terrorist attacks. Really only federal tactical teams like HRT and BORTAC are trained for that kind of stuff.

    Not only would cops have to have armored vehicles for patrol, they'd have to get extensive training in counter assault, carry rifles to every call no matter how mundane, the days of solo patrol would be over. In short, if we have our own Troubles, American law enforcement would need to more closely resemble European gendarmaries.
    EUPD377 likes this.
  2. EUPD377

    EUPD377 Southern Campus Cop

    Absolutely. When the troubles started, the government saw it fit to disarm the RUC and stop using armored vehicles, as they felt that it was causing a divide between the police and the people (sound familiar?). After a short period, they switched over to much better training, widespread use of armored vehicles, and all officers being armed, usually with long rifles as well. The RUC managed to transform itself into a very effective anti-terrorist and counter-insurgency unit (part of the reason they were hated so much was because of their effectiveness) and they still needed military support. There would need to be a massive re-tooling of training and equipment if America were to move any more in that direction.
  3. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    I disagree. I think we have all the best tools, tactics, and training of any countries police force in the history of the world. We just lack the will to use them. We've been fighting insurgencies around the world for the last 50+ years, and the current unrest should be treated as such. The political leadership and police administrations choose to side with the enemy instead, and that is a hard obstacle to overcome. Hell, one water cannon truck could clear 1000 antifa rioters off the street in minutes, defeating their shields, helmets, and laser pointers and blasting them into the sewer with less potential for injuries than pepper balls and flashbangs but it will NEVER be used simply because of some bad optics...50+ years ago. The GOOD people in this country will only take so much, and eventually that tipping point will be reached. When they see police forced to stand down while their cities are destroyed by thugs, eventually people will take it upon themselves to solve the problem. The problem now isn't lack of skills or training....the radical left prosecutors who have been allowed to infiltrate the system simply release or refuse to charge violent rioters. They will need to be removed. Either the ballot box, the jury box, of the cartridge box....

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
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  4. res2244

    res2244 MassCops Member

    The NYPD does have their own counterterrorism bureau. Though what’s really weird is that all patrolmen and patrolwomen in that department have a seemingly draconian policy of having a 12 lb trigger pull for duty handguns.....

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  5. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Now you understand why their hit ratio is so atrocious compared to LAPD and LV METRO. At one time, the NYPD thought a good way to reduce officer involved shootings was to cut back on firearms training. Some real geniuses in that administration.
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  6. CCCSD

    CCCSD MassCops Member

    If we just change our uniforms to Black and Tan...
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  7. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Hugo Boss makes some nice looking stuff.
  8. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Beats the old baby blue!
  9. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    I had to stop watching that video at the 19 minute mark. Those guys were doing fine, until they kept him down for so long. Murder? Hell no, but I can see a conviction coming for at least one of them. If they had simply sat him up or rolled him on his side (as one of them suggested) the current SHIT SHOW wouldn't have their figurehead. We're heading for disaster for damn sure, and there is some blame on the part of cops, but NOTHING like what the left is portraying. But that footage is excellent in showing that up until a certain point, the cops did NOTHING wrong and it was all on George Floyd.
    zm88, HistoryHound, CCCSD and 3 others like this.
  10. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    The problem is that they probably can get a conviction on something, likely negligent homicide, involuntary manslaughter, abuse of power, etc. But the people are demanding a murder conviction. Even if Chauvin heads to prison for one of those charges, there will be riots if it's not a murder conviction. People don't like the idea of due process these days.
    zm88, CCCSD, mpd61 and 3 others like this.
  11. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    People don't like due process, FOR SOME folks.
    zm88, CCCSD, Goose and 3 others like this.
  12. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

  13. IrishCop

    IrishCop International Member

    He would have been more than hated, he would have been a target.
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  14. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Minneapolis, MN – Hennepin County Judge Peter Cahill tossed the county prosecutor and three other prosecuting attorneys off the George Floyd case on Friday, calling their behavior “sloppy.”

    He also said the independent autopsy conducted on behalf of the family couldn’t be introduced as evidence or discussed under cross-examination unless the state first provided the full autopsy report.

    Cahill did not rule on the motions to dismiss charges against any of the four former Minneapolis police officers charged in connection with the death of the 46 year old in custody, KSTP reported.
    All four former officers – Derek Chauvin, Tou Thao, Thomas Lane, and J. Alexander Kueng – appeared in court on Sept. 11 for a Contest Omnibus hearing during which the judge tackled motions related to the upcoming trial.

    Chauvin is facing manslaughter and murder charges, the other three men are charged with aiding and abetting murder and manslaughter, MPR reported.

    Floyd died on May 25 while the officers were attempting to arrest him following a report he had used a counterfeit $20 bill to make a purchase at a deli.

    He resisted arrest and actively refused to be put inside a police car, so officers took him to the ground while they waited for EMS to respond.
    Cell phone video taken by bystanders quickly went viral after the incident and showed that then-Officer Chauvin held his knee on Floyd’s neck for almost nine minutes, during which time the suspect lost consciousness.

    The officer remained on Floyd’s neck for almost three minutes after he was unresponsive.

    Floyd was pronounced dead 90 minutes later at the hospital.

    The former officers’ attorneys have argued that their trials must be separated, KSTP reported.
    Former Officer Lane’s attorney, Earl Gray, said that if Chauvin was tried first and acquitted, the trials for the other officers involved likely wouldn’t go forward.

    The prosecution has argued that four separate trials would be an onerous and painful burden on the family and the jury members, KTSP reported.

    Attorneys for the former officers have also requested a change of venue and an anonymous jury, citing the slew of death threats that have been received by those who are representing and prosecuting them.

    Robert Paule, attorney for Thao, expressed concerns about juror safety, KTSP reported.
    Paul told Cahill that “one lead prosecutor has moved out of their house” because of protests already.

    “We can only imagine what would happen to these jurors if they were made public,” he added.

    Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, said he had gotten almost 1,000 unsolicited emails since taking on this case, KSTP reported.

    Nelson said that other lawyers who have the same name have “modified their business practices” because they’re receiving the same onslaught.
    Lane’s attorney confirmed that he had also received “many, many, many threats” for representing one of the officers, KSTP reported.

    Minnesota Assistant Attorney General Matthew Frank said he disagreed with the defense attorneys’ assessment and said there was no evidence that there was a threat anyone would attempt to influence the jury.

    But the judge disagreed wholeheartedly with Frank citing the “barrage of calls” he had received ahead of the hearing, KTSP reported.

    Cahill determined that a questionnaire should be sent out to prospective jurors ahead of selection to determine whether the jury pool in the area that has been the subject of violent anti-police riots since Floyd’s death on May 25 could be considered unbiased.
    He said he was leaning toward an anonymous jury and said he planned to release juror names after the trial was over.

    “With the only exception that if there is civil unrest, I’m not going to release the names during civil unrest,” Cahill said, according to MPR.

    Attorneys for the defense argued that some prospective jurors might be afraid of what could happen to them or their families if the community doesn’t like the verdict and said pre-trial publicity in Hennepin County has been impossible for residents to avoid, MPR reported.

    The judge postponed ruling on the change of venue and whether jurors were to be sequestered, saying those matters weren’t on a deadline, KSTP reported.
    Cahill said he was leaning toward a semi-sequestered model that would allow the jury to leave the courthouse and go home at night.

    The judge ruled the evidence related to Floyd’s conviction for a 2007 armed robbery in Texas and a 2019 overdose in Minneapolis that defense attorneys said mirrored his behavior the day he died would not be allowed at trial.

    Attorneys for the former officers scored a big win when the judge disqualified Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman and three members of his staff from participating in the case, MPR reported.

    Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, who has taken personal responsibility for overseeing the prosecution of the Minneapolis police officers, argued vehemently against the judge kicking the prosecutors off the case, pointing out that two of the banned attorneys had successfully prosecuted former Minneapolis Police Officer Mohamed Noor for the officer-involved fatal shooting of Justine Ruszczyk.
    But Cahill removed the prosecutors and called it “sloppy” to have met privately with the medical examiner to discuss Floyd’s autopsy results, MPR reported.

    Chauvin’s attorney claimed that the prosecutors violated attorney witness law and should be disqualified, KSTP reported.

    Nelson’s brief said Freeman and several of the assistant attorneys “are potential witnesses due to their interviews of Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker, regarding his autopsy of George Floyd without having a non-attorney witness present.”

    Freeman defended the prosecutors’ actions in a statement later but that move did nothing to change the fact that he and half his senior team had been sidelined, MPR reported.Cahill scheduled the trial to begin in March and estimated it would last for six weeks, including jury selection.
  15. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Time to dismiss the charges.
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  16. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    Even if they do, they're still goinna go the Al Capone route and make sure that Chauvin does time for the tax evasion. The other three may walk, but if Chauvin goes free, we're going from rioting to singing "Me Little Armalite" even before the election. I'm not saying that he, or anyone, should go to prison to appease the angry masses, but the government will likely think he should.
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  17. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah, well.....fuck the government. I hope he gets off, if anything it will kickstart what's been brewing.
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  18. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    I agree. It's coming and it won't be stopped. Let's just get this shit going.
  19. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Freeze dried food
    Bottled water
    Medical Stuff
    Toilet paper
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  20. CCCSD

    CCCSD MassCops Member

    You forgot Murder Plastic...
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  21. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    I think the stores are already out of it.
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  22. CCCSD

    CCCSD MassCops Member

    Go to your local Storage rental place. They have tons in their moving supplies...
  23. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    When it's time to start looking for work, the time to worry about cleaning it up will be long past.

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
  24. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Apples, mother fucker! do you like them?...
    It is beginning to look like George Floyd, the man who’s death sparked months of anti-American riots, didn’t die of police brutality after all.
    Over two months ago, Minneapolis man George Floyd died after being subdued by the city’s police. Video showing Floyd pinned to the ground by a police officer using his knee on the back of the man’s neck went viral and sparked three months of destruction, riots, looting, and up to 30 murders.

    Leftist activists have been saying that the Minneapolis police “murdered” Floyd with the knee-on-the-neck takedown.But previously unseen documents released by the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office on Tuesday now show that the medical examiner felt that Floyd actually died because he had too many illegal drugs in his system, not because police officers pinned him to the ground with a knee to his neck. That’s right, folks, Floyd died of a drug overdose, not by police abuse.
    The records consist of a summary of a conversation between Amy Sweasy, a Hennepin County Attorney, and Hennepin chief medical examiner, Dr. Andrew Baker who said that he would conclude that Floyd died of a drug overdose if there were no other contributing factors.

    Dr. Baker said he made his determination based on drug tests on Floyd’s blood samples taken by the local hospital.

    Floyd’s blood tested positive for 4ANPP, methamphetamine, fentanyl, and norfentayl. Baker added that the levels of drugs in Floyd’s system would be a “fatal level under normal circumstances.”

    Once again, we see that the police were not at fault and the Black Lives Matter terrorists used his death as an excuse for their anti-American mayhem all before finding out the first facts about what really happened. FLOYDDROVERDOSE.png FLOYDDROVERDOSE2.jpg
  25. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    The left doesnt care about facts. It was never about George Floyd.

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