Massachusetts Cop Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We all know about the AG's foolish "roster list" and his compliancy bullshit. As police officers, we are exempt from these restrictions. However, many FFL's won't transfer a non-compliant weapon without a department letter. I don't know about you guys, but getting a letter (say for a non-compliant off duty weapon) is about impossible. I've heard there are FFls who will do the transfer with just a copy of your police id. Anyone familiar with any of these dealers? I live on the South Shore, but would be willing to travel. If you don't feel right posting this info here, feel free to email me at [email protected]. Thanks for any help.
 

·
Woggalicious!
Joined
·
277 Posts
Contact "Butch" Duddy at Law Enforcement Equip. 305 River St. Waltham, MA. Open Tuesday to Saturday 12-6pm.
 

·
Thread Killa
Joined
·
6,056 Posts
Real simple: You can get them transfered right to your department.
go here:

http://www.cqbarms.com/les.html

get the individual officer purchase letter...send it to the far mailing FFL and have him ship it to the department directly.

Eamonn Wright said:
We all know about the AG's foolish "roster list" and his compliancy bullshit. As police officers, we are exempt from these restrictions. However, many FFL's won't transfer a non-compliant weapon without a department letter. I don't know about you guys, but getting a letter (say for a non-compliant off duty weapon) is about impossible. I've heard there are FFls who will do the transfer with just a copy of your police id. Anyone familiar with any of these dealers? I live on the South Shore, but would be willing to travel. If you don't feel right posting this info here, feel free to email me at [email protected]. Thanks for any help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My job would never accept delivery. My boss is a great guy, but I don't think he'd go for this. Probably worry about his personal liability or something along those lines. You know how it is; It's something new, so it can't be good. My dept provides all weapons, so it's an off-duty deal.
 

·
Retired Fed, Active Special
Joined
·
8,693 Posts
SOT II,

Correct me if I'm wrong.............
LEO's in Massachusetts are NOT exempt from MA Compliant restrictions in regards to personal weapons right? I just can't buy an older S&W model 37 on gunbroker and have it transferred to an FFL here for my personal off-duty use right?

As I understand it, the only way to be exempt as LEO is for the handgun to be purchased on letterhead, for department approved duty/off-duty carry

If I'm blanket exempt, then I'm gonna start looking to buy some nice older wheelguns to carry off-duty. (Model 21's, Triple-locks, Model 58's etc) Big Bores rule!!
:-?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
I don't have any cite to provide you, but here's what I recall (TTBOMK) what the law/rules are:

- AG Regs exempt all LE guns for duty (or department approved) use . . . on duty or off, personally possessed or PD supplied.
- MGLs has NO exemption of any sort for LE guns, therefore legally they can be purchased from out-of-state dealers on letterhead and shipped directly to the PD. The guns are supposed to be for duty use or approved off-duty use, and (as I understand it) you could pay for them yourself and have the PD do an FA-10 with you to register it.

That said, I have witnessed individual LEOs purchasing new Glocks and other guns with nothing more than a badge and ID shown to a MA FFL.
 

·
Retired Fed, Active Special
Joined
·
8,693 Posts
LenS said:
I don't have any cite to provide you, but here's what I recall (TTBOMK) what the law/rules are:

- AG Regs exempt all LE guns for duty (or department approved) use . . . on duty or off, personally possessed or PD supplied.
- MGLs has NO exemption of any sort for LE guns, therefore legally they can be purchased from out-of-state dealers on letterhead and shipped directly to the PD. The guns are supposed to be for duty use or approved off-duty use, and (as I understand it) you could pay for them yourself and have the PD do an FA-10 with you to register it.

That said, I have witnessed individual LEOs purchasing new Glocks and other guns with nothing more than a badge and ID shown to a MA FFL.
You're right LenS,

And when that officer purchases a new Glock 27 for personal use with just his I.D. and LTC, the DEALER is the one breaking the law. Too bad cuz eventually some poor FFL dealer somewhere in the commonwealth is going to be made an example of.

As SOT II pointed out with the NFA business, Many people are operating on assumptions and rumor. I'm buying everything you're saying. I'll be even more interested to hear what SOT II has to say..........................I'm in hot stand-by to buy a couple of big-bore wheel guns!!!!!!!!!
:naughty:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
Already happened!

A certain gun dealer who was selling lots of Glocks, I am told by a reliable source, got a visit from BATFE and someone from the AG's office. The owner was allegedly made to give up his FFL and state licenses in order to avoid prosecution and someone else took the business over.

I have been told by a brother that another dealer is currently under investigation for some improper sales. I know the dealer in question and he appeared a bit too shady for me to do business with (and that was ~3 years ago), so I went elsewhere.

According to the Telegram (9/1/04), the owner of The Gun Room in Shrewsbury was arraigned on 10 charges of selling handguns (in 2002) that weren't on the state's approved list. I know nothing about what's happened in this case since that initial news story.
 

·
Thread Killa
Joined
·
6,056 Posts
If the guns are transfered to the department on letterhead from a dealer outside MA, then you are good to go.

The laws regarding the sale of handguns and the various rosters and lists pertain to MA dealers and sales in MA.

So if your department will allow for an individual officer purchase of firearms (where you the officer pay) but the firearm is acceptable and papered for duty use via a letter, you are good to go and can buy the gun from out of state and have it shipped to the department.

As to your question about wheel guns, if it's an older wheel gun and was lawfully owned in MA prior to the changes in the law (1998) then you do not need any form of letterhead or otherwise. It is a gun that is for sale either retail, wholesale, or person to person.

mpd61 said:
SOT II,

Correct me if I'm wrong.............
LEO's in Massachusetts are NOT exempt from MA Compliant restrictions in regards to personal weapons right? I just can't buy an older S&W model 37 on gunbroker and have it transferred to an FFL here for my personal off-duty use right?

As I understand it, the only way to be exempt as LEO is for the handgun to be purchased on letterhead, for department approved duty/off-duty carry

If I'm blanket exempt, then I'm gonna start looking to buy some nice older wheelguns to carry off-duty. (Model 21's, Triple-locks, Model 58's etc) Big Bores rule!!
:-?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
This is an interesting topic and I will add my two cents.

All of you are generally correct in your various statements about sales of non-compliant firearms in MA.

I think we all agree that the following conditions must be met for firearms for sale in MA:

When discussing sales of firearms one must understand that most of these rules are focused on the dealer and are about retail sales (otherwise known as over the counter sales). I typically define, as does the AG and BATFE, an over the counter sale as one where a 4473 and FA-10 form must be filled out to complete a transaction. If a retail sale:
The firearm must be on the EOPS roster .
The firearm must be approved by the AG's office (unless the person purchasing is exempt.)
If the firearm is on the EOPS roster and approved by the AG's office any dealer may sell that firearm and anyone with the appropriate LTC may purchase it.

If the firearm is on the EOPS roster but not approved by the AG's office, only law enforcement officers or agencies may buy them in MA. If someone owns a firearm that is not on the roster and moves into MA, they too may continue to own that firearm as long as they:

Comply with the laws regarding high capacity magazines
Obtain a LTC within 60 days of moving into the state and that LTC would cover said firearm in terms of high capacity or not (Class A or Class B)

If the firearm is not on the EOPS roster and not approved by the AG's office the only way that firearm can be sold in MA would be when one of following conditions are met:
The firearm was owned by someone prior to moving to MA, and they are selling it face to face via a private sale to someone who can lawfully own that firearm.
The firearm is being sold to an agency from a firearms purveyor that is located outside MA.
The firearm is being sold to a wholesaler in MA with the express understanding that the firearm will not be resold via a retail transaction. (This is a very interesting statement which I will explain a bit later.)
The firearm predates the EOPS roster and AG's requirements and was lawfully owned in MA by either a retail customer or a dealer who maintains a retail facility.
The firearm is being sold between departments.

Earlier I mentioned wholesale transactions and they have a set of rules that apply to them as well although it's a bit more loosely defined.
A wholesaler of firearms that is based in MA may purchase any type of firearm as well as assault weapons but there is the express understanding that anything that would not be legal for sale in MA would not be sold in MA unless otherwise exempt.

Dealers in MA may purchase firearms that are not allowed for retail sale so long as they do not sell those firearms in MA. They may sell them out of MA to another dealer or retail customer via a dealer so long as the retail customer complies with federal and their state laws.
(Face to face with a dealer and 4473 and any state requirements for the sale of a firearm)

But to answer the original question:
When an individual officer wants to purchase a firearm that is on the EOPS roster and approved by the AG's office:

They may purchase it from a dealer via an over the counter sale. (4473 and FA-10)

They may purchase it on department letterhead and have it shipped to the department.

They may purchase from an individual that already lawfully owns that firearm in MA via a private sale and FA-10.

When an individual officer wants to purchase a firearm that is on the EOPS roster and is not expressly approved for retail sale by the AG's office:

The may purchase it from a dealer via an over the counter sale with ID but ultimately it would be better to have an individual officer purchase letter and a FET form.

The IOP and FET form help establish that the firearm is suitable for LE use, is approved by the department for LE work, and is not being bought for resale. It also removes the sporting tax on firearms and can save an officer money.

They may purchase from an individual that already lawfully owns that firearm in MA via a private sale and FA-10.

When an individual officer wants to purchase a firearm that is not on the EOPS roster and may or may not be approved by the AG's office:

They may purchase from an out of state dealer through the department on letterhead (Agency or IOP) and should include a FET form.

To clarify, our IOP form specifically states the following and is nearly equivalent to an agency purchase letter:

I hereby certify, under penalty of perjury, the above named law enforcement officer will use the requested firearm(s) and/or large capacity ammunition feeding device(s) for use in performing official duties, that the firearm(s) is suitable for use in performing official duties, and that the large capacity ammunition feeding device(s) is not being acquired for personal use or for purposes of transfer or resale.
I further certify, under penalty of perjury, that a records check has been conducted on the law enforcement officer who is purchasing the firearm and reveals no conviction for misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence.

More so a law enforcement officer may purchase a firearm without the above documentation because the out of state dealer may only require a copy of their ID. The firearm would still have to be shipped to the department and not to a dealer in MA as that would then be a retail transaction.
They may purchase from an individual that already lawfully owns that firearm in MA via a private sale and FA-10.

Some notes:

When stated approve by the AG's office, there is no real list of AG approval, it's more of a passive situation to the extent that the AG will tell you if you don't meet their criteria.

There may be other conditions that apply to some of these transactions and this is not legal advice.

Regards,
Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Eamonwright,

I would suggest that you get in touch with Walter at Law Enforcement Equipment in Waltham. Bring your ID & leave with what you want. They will set you up with everything you need.

Law Enforcement Equipment (781) 894-2879

PS: Hows the Sig shooting?
Ogzee28:t:
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
2,280 Posts
I apologies but my dyslexia is kicking in!

If I took a trip to NH lets say and purchase a firearm that in not on the EOPS (or non compliant) could I bring it home to Massachusetts and legally own it???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
Irish Wampanoag said:
I apologies but my dyslexia is kicking in!

If I took a trip to NH lets say and purchase a firearm that in not on the EOPS (or non compliant) could I bring it home to Massachusetts and legally own it???
Buying a handgun out of state is a Federal Felony! A PD can order anything from anywhere on letterhead, but the sale must be made to the PD and shipped directly there. Fed Law applies.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
2,280 Posts
LenS said:
Buying a handgun out of state is a Federal Felony! A PD can order anything from anywhere on letterhead, but the sale must be made to the PD and shipped directly there. Fed Law applies.
Yikes thanks for the info LOL. :wow:
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top