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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found out I'm going to need to do some shopping soon as I'm not able to carry a .45 with my future employement. I was going to be plenty happy with my Ruger P90 and planned on getting the new P345 at a later date. Now I pretty much have to look for a .40. All that I can think to consider are Glock 22, Sig 226 rail, H&K USP, Taurus 24/7, SW99/P99, or maybe a Ruger in .40. The Glock and the Taurus have all the others in the capacity dept, 15+1. One strick for me against the Glock is the goofy-to-me grip angle. Hopefully I'll get some range time with one this weekend to see how it shoots. I haven't handled the new taurus model yet since you can't buy them in MA. Both the Glock and the Taurus would probably be the best priced options as well. I handled a few Sig's last night and they seem pretty comfortable and has a 12-rd mag; haven't shot one of these yet either. What is everyones preference when you have to spend your own dime on your duty weapon?
 

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Can u purchase a H & K USP? Well in my opinion I would choose either a Glock or H & K P2000. I would probally choose the P2k, Sigs are great to. and you can never go wrong with a glock.
 

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I had an issue with my Glock 23's handle. It was an older model that didnt have the new grip scheme. I bought a rubber slide on grip and it fixed the problem.
 

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Obviously, as my avatar would indicate, I'm biased towards Glocks. My department issues the Glock 23, which I am very happy with. You should see which weapon the majority of your coworkers carry. That way if you're ever in a situation where have to trade off magazines you'll be able to do so.
 

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Dan H @ 30 Sep 2004 11:24 said:
I found out I'm going to need to do some shopping soon as I'm not able to carry a .45 with my future employement. I was going to be plenty happy with my Ruger P90 and planned on getting the new P345 at a later date. Now I pretty much have to look for a .40. All that I can think to consider are Glock 22, Sig 226 rail, H&K USP, Taurus 24/7, SW99/P99, or maybe a Ruger in .40.
Not to sh!t on your current weapon, but the Ruger isn't even close to being in the same class as the Glock, Sig, or H&K. Oh ya, the Taurus is an absolute piece of garbage as well, no way would I carry one, especially for duty use. The best bang for your buck, in my opinion, is a Glock 22 or 23. The Sig 226 or 229 is a very nice weapon, a little on the pricey side though if that's a factor. Last but not least, the H&K's (USP, USP Comp, ect) are also quality firearms.

Sorry if the first part of my post came off as a little opinionated, it's just that I'm a firm believer in if you're going to carry a gun, carry one that's worth while. Along those lines, shame that your new job won't let you carry a .45, but then I'd recommend that you sh!t-can the Ruger P-90 for a Glock 21.
 

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Let me give you a quick rundown:
1. Sig = Accuracy
2. Glock = Realiabilty
3. HK = Quality
4. Ruger = Low Price
5. Taurus = Crap
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks to some good advice I am going to consider the new Springfield XD. It is swaying me away from the G22 pretty quick. The glock still wins for capacity; you can have 15rds of .40 in that stock mag and I believe get another 2 with a grip extension. Do I really need 17rnds to drop a target, I really doubt it. I'm not worried when I carry my "POS" Ruger that only has 7+1. With a .45 that would wind up being up to 8 people that would never be able to attack you again. The P90 is a great gun. Even if it's a little clunky, it's as reliable as a tank. Maybe I should get a Para 16.40, I love my 12.45
 

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Sort of off topic but was there any resolution to the Glock failures that were plaguing the NYPD?
 

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The department I started with used the Glock 22 and my current department there is an option of using the Glock 22 or Glock 23. The first firearm instructor I had was excellent and knowledgeable with all weapons, but pro-glock. Did an exceptional job of training with it and teaching the pros and cons to it, basically as said in previous posts it is very reliable weapon and pretty basic as far as maintainance, etc..

I have had no problems with the Glock and would certainly recommend it, but that is my preference due to my training. I saw someone with the quote on their profile "As you train, so shall you perform"...very true, if its going to be your duty weapon and you have a variety of options, then use what your most comfortable with. I would say Killjoy's post above sums it up pretty good for you.
 

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Well dan u are talking about 2 different calibers .40 vs .45 . Go with what u feel comfortable with. As far as the capacity thing, i feel that ammo is like sex u can always use more than u got and when u want it most it isn't there. of course my point of view is based on mostly my experiences in the military I don't know what experiences u have being shot at but when the lead starts flying u will resort back to your lowest level of training- get proficient and be comfortable of course this doesn't matter if your first round missed and the casing is stove piped. Most shootings take place within 21 feet so your first round might be your only round. 46 rnds of .40 S&W is fine. Killjoy summed it up good. Just be sure about your purchase when it comes down to it the last thought running through your head shouldn't be "I should have bought a glock". I could have sworn the Glock 22 had a 12 round mag?

Hey SOT what problems were the PDNYC having?
 

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http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html

The 19's and evidently some other models since would lock up "tight" to the point that they were useless except to be thrown.

Well dan u are talking about 2 different calibers .40 vs .45 . Go with what u feel comfortable with. As far as the capacity thing, i feel that ammo is like sex u can always use more than u got and when u want it most it isn't there. of course my point of view is based on mostly my experiences in the military I don't know what experiences u have being shot at but when the lead starts flying u will resort back to your lowest level of training- get proficient and be comfortable of course this doesn't matter if your first round missed and the casing is stove piped. Most shootings take place within 21 feet so your first round might be your only round. 46 rnds of .40 S&W is fine. Killjoy summed it up good. Just be sure about your purchase when it comes down to it the last thought running through your head should be "I should have bought a glock". I could have sworn the Glock 22 had a 12 round mag?

Hey SOT what problems were the PDNYC having?
 

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Just to clarify; there is no magic caliber. Think of the case with the SC Trooper who put 5 rounds of .357 Magnum into a suspect and not only did it not stop him, he returned fire with a dinky .22 LR and ended up killing the Trooper. By the way that suspect lived! We can carry calibers that can help sharpen the odds in our favor, but what it comes down to is shot placement. Put those rounds where they can cause the most damage, either through rapid cardiovascular decompression (heart, large artery/ventricle hit), neurological shock (brain, brainstem or spinal column), or structural damage (pelvic girdle - although he will drop, the suspect can keep fighting). I would take a clean double tap with a .38 Special over a sloppy miss with a 44 Magnum. I happen to prefer the .45 ACP, the large frontal area and slow velocity equal massive knock-down power. Unfortunately the powers that be in my department have decided to issue firearms that use the .40 S&W round, not a bad round, but sort of compromise round in my opinion. Like EOD said, most gunfights are within 21 feet (7 yards), and over half of them are within 9 feet (3 yards), and only involve a few rounds thrown on either side. Police have a dismal hit rate with only about a 9-13% hit average. Stop thinking about how many rounds you can cram into your piece and concentrate on trying to hit with the few round you'll probably end up throwing if and when the sh*t hits the fan. "Wild" Bill Hickcock, a veteran of many gunfights, was quoted as saying;"Speed is fine but accuracy is final."
 

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I love my Beretta 96 (.40) !!! A hand held cannon... big, bulky, a bit heavy, but damn is it accurate! :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
More ramblings..... I lucked out that one of my buddies just purchased a glock 22 last week. After finally having some range time with one I would have to say its a pretty smooth shooter. With its light weight I expected a bit more muzzle flip but it surprised me. Brand new factory 15rd mags is a big plus too. The only bad point I can really see with it is the grip angle and the contour on the backstrap. It feels and points strange at first because I am so used to different guns. I just don't want to get used to the Glock then have to adjust to every other one.
I would love to track down an xd to try before I pick. The points I see against the XD are the 12rd capacity, availability/price of mags, holster choices (haven't checked), and slightly harder trigger pull. Then I would also have to choose from either the 4in barrel or the 5, the Glock in nicely in the middle with a 4.5.
i'm not into the sig 226 as much also from it's capacity, but price is going to be a factor as well. I'm hate being forced to be frugal. I'm much more the type to buy two to try and always have the choice around.
 

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I hate to ask, but what Police department in Massachusetts lets you carry what ever gun you want, in whatever caliber you want?
As for a ruger auto for police work. a piece of shit, I used to work for a dept. that issued them. The only good thing I can say about them is I am now an expert at clearing every type of malfunction possible.
My dept issues the Glock 23, My choice would be the Glock 22. My off duty / detail gun is a Glock 27.
I also have carried the Sig 226 in 40. This would be the gun that I would issue if it were up to me.
I was told there was a problem with some glock locking up as well. Don't remember what one though.
I did see a sig lock up once too but I believe it was caused by a shit ammo. It was a reload.

:2c:
 
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Just my thoughts, but in close quarter combat, I want reliability and good mag. capacity. There isn't much time to line up sights like at the range, and the target is shooting back. Not every shot will hit or disable instantly.
Ammo selection is an important factor also, and can be the cause of some malfunctions in autos. A Glock in .40 or .45 is a good choice, but you may get a few more rounds in the .40.
 

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It was the Glock 17 (full size. 9mm) that had the lock-up problem. this was called a phase 3 lock-up & was first discovered by the NYPD. This never happened with Glocks of other calibers or with compact or sub-compact frames.

As it turned out, the cause of this was frames from the model 18 (select fire) being mixed up with those of the 17. Because of machining & weight differences on the slide of the select fire version, the frame rails are thicker & set into the frame slightly differently. When the slide from the 17 is mated to a frame for the 18, it cannot work properly & the lock-up occured. This was an especially difficult jam to clear.

I believe that Glock is now making the frames for the 2 models on separate lines so that this doesn't reoccur
 

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Jeep";p="44867 said:
It was the Glock 17 (full size. 9mm) that had the lock-up problem. this was called a phase 3 lock-up & was first discovered by the NYPD. This never happened with Glocks of other calibers or with compact or sub-compact frames.

As it turned out, the cause of this was frames from the model 18 (select fire) being mixed up with those of the 17. Because of machining & weight differences on the slide of the select fire version, the frame rails are thicker & set into the frame slightly differently. When the slide from the 17 is mated to a frame for the 18, it cannot work properly & the lock-up occured. This was an especially difficult jam to clear.

I believe that Glock is now making the frames for the 2 models on separate lines so that this doesn't reoccur
Mine does that every once and a while. Have to kinda hold the slide back with one hand, while yanking the mag out with the other.

Never had it do it with carry ammo, just the cheap walmart stuff I use at the range.

-- Joe
 
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