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If those inquiring minds actually read the bill they would know that just because specific chapters and sections are not expressly mentioned does not exempt anyone performing the duties of a Law Enforcement Officer from being held to the standards of POST and the MPTC.

This includes DMH/DPH.

Also what nonsense is this about "done as SSPOs"? The authority granted to them will still come from the MSP as a SSPO Licensure, however, they will now also be considered fulltime certified by the MPTC and POST (meaning they can work for municipalities).

If their SSPO Licensure was granted via a waiver (think reserve + 60 college credits) they will be required to attend bridge academy to be up to standard.
I think I did a bad job phrasing / asking things. It is more of a statement and maybe a question. I read the law and know what i think. That said, a major union - AFSCME, claims they read it too and at this point thinks because section 59 ( SSPOs in DMH) and section 60 (DPH SSPOs) are not mentioned those SSPOs are exempt from the law and therefore do not need to attend a bridge academy ( so they will eventually be de certified).That is their opinion so far, but they will be re examining things. So at this point, if you wish to bridge, you may want to leave while you can or avoid those places when applying
Am I missing some aspect of this or will those guys with police powers just be de certified and that's that? My rationale is if the union isn't pushing, i doubt DMH or DPH will willingly send guys (and girls) to the bridge academy. Or are they somehow allowed to keep having police powers through some weird interpretation of the wonderful reform law?
 

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. That said, a major union - AFSCME, claims they read it too and at this point thinks because section 59 ( SSPOs in DMH) and section 60 (DPH SSPOs) are not mentioned those SSPOs are exempt from the law and therefore do not need to attend a bridge academy ( so they will eventually be de certified).That is their opinion so far, but they will be re examining things. So at this point, if you wish to bridge, you may want to leave while you can or avoid those places when applying
AFSCME is the biggest joke when it comes to anything regarding "police" representation. Council#93 and Local 1067 DO NOT go out of their way to fight for cops. Don't believe me?
Research the fine job they did at Massasoit in 2005-2010. Besides, can you expect a union of thousands of boiler plant operators, housekeepers, maintainers, IT Techs, librarians, clerks, media aides, painters, electricians, etc to fight for 172 Campus Cops? They only ever fought once to keep them from severing back nearly two decades ago. They are enjoying a political relationship with their employers who are BTW the Board of Higher Education, NOT any L.E. Agency. Need more proof? Check out Appendix O of the last Local#1067 contract. 2017 to 2020. They continue to reference the MCJTC as the training agency. They haven't even existed for years? The whole section is an afterthought. Who was negotiating for, and writing this garbage? I can assure you it wasn't the campus cops!
So please don't exhibit AFSCME here as any legitimate partner to "Police Reform". They are NOT relevant to any of this. They are NOT any kind of player in this game. They are the main reason the state schools got all twisted into the SSPO mess. FUCK ASFCME!!!!
 

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Anyone know what MPTC or State Police want to do about DMH / DPH Police? There are a few SSPOs in both, and it is the opinion of some in AFSCME that because the reform bill does not mention the chapters of law covering them, they are exempt from the reform bill. Are they just done as SSPOs once it comes time to renew their powers and they see there is no bridge academy?
Again, WTF does AFSCME know about it? Opinion? Following their union logic the Boston specials (rule 400) were not mentioned specifically in the bill like DMH/DDS. SO I guess they're exempt from the bill too? Oh wait, shit that didn't work. They're GONE!!!!!

It's all about certification and being a certified police officer. Wait until the stuff all settles, or let some union schmuck playing lawyer wanna be give you the facts.
 

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Basically anyone who exercised arrests powers in the Commonwealth must be POST certified as a law enforcement officer through MPTC. The former concept of different certifications for part-time vs. full-time police officers, campus police officers vs. municipal police officers vs. deputy sheriffs is being consolidated into one POST certification through MPTC. Sheriffs once again have seats on the MPTC as they did under its predecessor agency, the Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Counsel. If a specific agency does not allow their officers to become certified through POST they will cease to be granted powers of arrest, hence the purpose of the POST system under the new police reform bill.

Stay safe!!
 

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Basically anyone who exercised arrests powers in the Commonwealth must be POST certified as a law enforcement officer through MPTC. The former concept of different certifications for part-time vs. full-time police officers, campus police officers vs. municipal police officers vs. deputy sheriffs is being consolidated into one POST certification through MPTC. Sheriffs once again have seats on the MPTC as they did under its predecessor agency, the Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Counsel. If a specific agency does not allow their officers to become certified through POST they will cease to be granted powers of arrest, hence the purpose of the POST system under the new police reform bill.

Stay safe!!
I would hit "like" a thousands times if I could, I personally believe if you are a sworn police officer in (What ever boro, Mass) your powers of arrest/stop/investigate should not just halt at your towns boarders but should be honored state wide. When I first got on the job we had town issued police ID's that stated: "This is to certify that the bearer, whose signature and photograph appear on the reverse side, is an appointed Officer of the Town of (Redacted) police department, and as such Is charged with the duty of investigating violations of the laws of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the town of (Redacted), with authority to serve warrants and all criminal processes. As per Massachusetts General Law; Chapter 41: section 98."

This would put the headache of writing up mutual aid agreements with surrounding towns to bed, or for instance, let say, your running plates in the center of your town/city (Comm V. Starr) a vehicle passes you so you plug the plate in to your MDT or dispatch, after some time goes by you get a hit showing the vehicle is revoked and the RO's license is suspended for his or her 5th OUI. Now the vehicle/violator has a pretty good lead on you and by the time you catch up to him to effect a MV stop you have crossed over the town line. Keep in mind you didn't initiate a pursuit (MGL Chap 90 Section 25) the vehicle was operating in a safe way and crossed over the line before you could light 'em up. As it stands now you would have to request permission from the highest ranking supervisor of your town and the town/city you are now in to effect a M/V stop. I know there are a couple of exceptions to the rule and several obscure case laws you could cite, but as for that if you went ahead and stopped the vehicle and it turned into something big, any defense lawyer worth his salt will file a motion to suppress any evidence discovered during the stop simply because you were over the line out of your jurisdiction. (the fruits of the poisonous tree). Now once everyone is POST certified I would imagine your police powers would be state wide..
 

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Basically anyone who exercised arrests powers in the Commonwealth must be POST certified as a law enforcement officer through MPTC. The former concept of different certifications for part-time vs. full-time police officers, campus police officers vs. municipal police officers vs. deputy sheriffs is being consolidated into one POST certification through MPTC. Sheriffs once again have seats on the MPTC as they did under its predecessor agency, the Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Counsel. If a specific agency does not allow their officers to become certified through POST they will cease to be granted powers of arrest, hence the purpose of the POST system under the new police reform bill.

Stay safe!!
I have had some more conversations with other people about this issue. For those that are employed under the net of the Executive office of health and human services....although no one will officially say it, they have no plans to get anyone POST certifiied, and like I mentioned earlier the union does not intend to push for POST certification, because of how they interpret the bill. DMH / DPH is a decent place to start out or come to as a retirement job. You come, get an academy, get your SSPO and off you go, to another SSPO job.
Problem is...some of those hospitals need SOME VERSION of law enforcement. There are violent patients, prisoners from every county, female lifers from MCI Framingham. They commit acts of violence, try and get drugs and contraband in. Maybe State or local will be happy to show up, but maybe not. They probably have bigger fish to fry.
So, looks like another group of people that if they want to stay a law enforcement officer need to find other jobs because their agency is all done with them. I would be interested to see outside the rule 400s any agencies or hospitals etc that will not go ahead with POST and drop police altogether.
 

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I think POST is really the way to go. We go by a different name here in NC, but it’s the same concept. Whether you’re a highway patrol trooper, deputy, city cop, campus, hospital, special, Capitol cop, wildlife officer, park ranger, etc, you’re certified by the state and can go to any other agency. Some agencies like SHP and big cities still want laterals to go to their academy, but that’s purely an internal policy issue. You could be a campus cop at the smallest college in the state, and your training requirements and certification will be exactly the same as if you worked in the biggest city.

My fear with its implementation in MA is that because of the huge hodgepodge of different training standards currently, a lot of places that employed sworn officers will cease to do so because they don’t want to deal with the time, money, or hassle of getting their officers fully trained and certified. Let’s be real, a lot of the 400A agencies in Boston should continue to employ sworn officers, such as park rangers and school police. Even a lot of the private companies that patrol housing projects and make arrests under 400 should still be sworn. However, I’m sure we all know that the city and the private companies are just going to cut arrest powers because they don’t want to deal with the cost of sending people to a full academy and the commensurate pay increases they will need to put out to keep people there.

On top of that, with the whole “defund/abolish the police” movement, especially in liberal MA, a lot of places are now going to have extra incentive to get rid of cops. If I’m the spineless, Bernie-loving, Prius-driving vice president of business, finance, food service, parking, rubbish disposal, toilet cleaning, and public safety at Dinkenwieler College of Liberal Arts in North Bumblefuck, I probably already don’t really care for the college PD, or even really know they exist. Now the chief comes to me and says “hey in order to be in line with the new state standards, we’re going to have to send all our officers to extra training over the next year and get them certified, please can we have some overtime money to pay them while they go through training?”. I’m sitting behind my desk and thinking “shit most of the students (or at least the loud ones) seem to want cops gone anyways, we’re broke as fuck from COVID and don’t want to pay overtime, plus how much do you fuckers really do anyways? My campus is so very safe and insulated from the world, nothing bad could happen here.” Then I’m gonna decide “fuck you guys, you’re now the department of campus safety, turn in your handcuffs and blue lights. Also have fun taking a 60% paycut now that you’re only security. My boss is gonna love me for saving all this money!”


The end result of all these smaller specialized agencies disappearing is that ultimately a portion of their work that can’t be handled by security guards (aka scarecrows since they don’t really have any power at all in MA) will have to be picked up by the state police or the municipal agency that holds jurisdiction. This is coming right when budgets are getting slashed in the name of “social justice” and the politicians are never going to vote to spend more on the police, since that’s political suicide and a one-way ticket to being called racist in a lot of jurisdictions, no matter how much the police department explains that they are having to take on new duties due to the disappearance of smaller LE agencies.

It will certainly be a circus.
 

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I would hit "like" a thousands times if I could, I personally believe if you are a sworn police officer in (What ever boro, Mass) your powers of arrest/stop/investigate should not just halt at your towns boarders but should be honored state wide. When I first got on the job we had town issued police ID's that stated: "This is to certify that the bearer, whose signature and photograph appear on the reverse side, is an appointed Officer of the Town of (Redacted) police department, and as such Is charged with the duty of investigating violations of the laws of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the town of (Redacted), with authority to serve warrants and all criminal processes. As per Massachusetts General Law; Chapter 41: section 98."

This would put the headache of writing up mutual aid agreements with surrounding towns to bed, or for instance, let say, your running plates in the center of your town/city (Comm V. Starr) a vehicle passes you so you plug the plate in to your MDT or dispatch, after some time goes by you get a hit showing the vehicle is revoked and the RO's license is suspended for his or her 5th OUI. Now the vehicle/violator has a pretty good lead on you and by the time you catch up to him to effect a MV stop you have crossed over the town line. Keep in mind you didn't initiate a pursuit (MGL Chap 90 Section 25) the vehicle was operating in a safe way and crossed over the line before you could light 'em up. As it stands now you would have to request permission from the highest ranking supervisor of your town and the town/city you are now in to effect a M/V stop. I know there are a couple of exceptions to the rule and several obscure case laws you could cite, but as for that if you went ahead and stopped the vehicle and it turned into something big, any defense lawyer worth his salt will file a motion to suppress any evidence discovered during the stop simply because you were over the line out of your jurisdiction. (the fruits of the poisonous tree). Now once everyone is POST certified I would imagine your police powers would be state wide..
Not an issue with LEC agreements. I can pull over a car and make an arrest in any town under CEMLEC


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If I’m an SSPO who is a sworn constable who got granted SSPO powers by the MSP working for DOH as an SPO who is armed on every second Tuesday and a member of the union who has a LTC with a CVPI equipped with blue lights who can serve civil warrants, can I buy ice cream on Thursdays?
Asking for a friend.
 

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If I’m an SSPO who is a sworn constable who got granted SSPO powers by the MSP working for DOH as an SPO who is armed on every second Tuesday and a member of the union who has a LTC with a CVPI equipped with blue lights who can serve civil warrants, can I buy ice cream on Thursdays?
Asking for a friend.
Of course you can, it's New England!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #256 ·
Back to the original question - any update on the bridge academy or is it all just rumors floating around out there?
 

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Not an issue with LEC agreements. I can pull over a car and make an arrest in any town under CEMLEC


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Does that cover the whole state or just the towns and municipalities that have an agreement with CEMLEC ?
 

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Does that cover the whole state or just the towns and municipalities that have an agreement with CEMLEC ?
All the communities under CEMLEC like 80 cities and towns. Bordering towns always cross over and make arrests no problem for what you stated earlier.


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Different areas have different agreements to expand jurisdiction, to include being sworn in as deputy sheriffs which offer countywide jurisdiction.
Don’t need to. I’m on the regional recon team and work fatals in all those towns with full prosecutorial powers. Agreement gives us all full powers. I’m sure nemlec and others are all similar


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