Police Reform (Part Timers) | MassCops

Police Reform (Part Timers)

Discussion in 'Academy Information' started by Foxy85, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. Foxy85

    Foxy85 MassCops Member

    Anyone hear anything or know anything about the reform bill in regards to part time officers. Hearing things like they are not going to have them anymore (eliminating the use of them), to some sort of training to get them on par with FT requirements / hours...

    Information online from Scheft is vague.
  2. samadam78

    samadam78 MassCops Member

    I would assume it would be like other states with a POST system. NH for example limits the amount of total hours a PT officer can work in a year.
    Foxy85 likes this.
  3. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    There are some depts in the Comm where the whole dept is part time including the chief. There are other such as my own that relies heavily on them to cover patrol shifts IE if a FT guy wants a day off we page it out to the part-timers first if there are no takers it gets offered to FT as over time if there are no takers the request in declined.
    Foxy85, mpd61 and Joel98 like this.
  4. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    As I said in the other thread, in PA they have a POST system (called MPOETC there) and both part and full time academies have the same amount of hours, with PT academy stretched out over a longer period of time. I believe Florida does the same thing. In PA, this hasn't changed the fact that the vast, vast majority of PDs, including the ones surrounding big cities like Philly and Pittsburgh, heavily utilize part time officers.

    Like in MA, there are some PDs where everybody, including the chief, is part time. But because everybody has the same training, everybody is on the same level of their full time counterparts.
    Joel98, Foxy85, res2244 and 1 other person like this.
  5. NEPS

    NEPS 75th N.H.P.A.

    If the information is vague, that is because neither the Senate nor the House Bill is clear. The provisions in one or the other or both may not even make it into the actual law.

    The Senate version seems to be least likely to continue the current system of part time training. (And, as PG1911 said above, some states have gone to requiring full and part time officers to attend the same "full time" academy.) The House version seems to talk about a standard for part time training among the four or five standards discussed. But BOTH bills contain a section saying that part time academy trained officers will be INITIALLY certified, and during that first certified period will be required to attend additional training that is not described, but will be designed by the training agency. So, some decisions seem as though they will be made by the training agency and the new certification authority, and we don't even know what that training agency and the certification authority will be, much less what decisions they will make.

    That is, I assure you, as much as can be understood at this point from these two bills. They were written by legislators who are not intimately familiar with our current part time training system (if you can call it a system) in which the state's police training agency has not actually trained any part time officers for a decade or two, but has left the job instead to regional chiefs' groups and private enterprises.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    Foxy85 likes this.
  6. Foxy85

    Foxy85 MassCops Member

    Shameless bump.

    anyone heard anything new. Heard rumor of bridge academy. Then also recently heard that will NOT be happening. Which leads me to believe they will either grandfather us in or phase us out as we are unable to attend traditional FT academies?
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  7. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Post wants every thing set to a standard so my theory is pt guys currently working will be grandfathers in and become post certified over night (kinda like the 94 state police merger with capital, registry. Metro and DMC police, over Night they all became troopers) as of July one this year when it takes effect. I do believe extra traing will happen but not as involved with a full time mptc academy. Any one wishing to become a police officer, be it full time or part-time, must have a full time mptc academy to work post July 1.
    Joel98 likes this.
  8. kpf94

    kpf94 New Member

    I have heard this same thing, anybody with a reserve academy certificate dated before July 1, 2021 will be grandfathered into POST and not need to attend a full time academy while anybody seeking any type of law enforcement employment after July 1, 2021 would need to go through a full time MPTC academy even if they're only going to work in a reserve status.
    Joel98 and RodneyFarva like this.
  9. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    According to the Scheft handout it only states the initial certification for reserves will be ok for now. Once they have to renew they will need the additional training (ie full time academy)

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Joel98, RodneyFarva and mpd61 like this.
  10. kpf94

    kpf94 New Member

    What they're telling us in the reserve academy is that the bridge academy is going to be used for the reservists who will be grandfathered in, it'll be a mix of EVOC, firearms/DT, and then more in depth constitutional and criminal law.
    FAPD and RodneyFarva like this.
  11. Treehouse413

    Treehouse413 MassCops Member

    I think part timers will be a thing of the past . Law enforcement will cost $$$ the smaller communities that rely on them .
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  12. WMA7787

    WMA7787 MassCops Member

    Smaller communities will need to start exploring their options and looking at sharing the cost of services. Im sure more and more will fall on the state police.
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  13. Goose

    Goose The list is long but distinguished. Staff Member

    Not necessarily. There will be folks that have a main job that want to stay involved whether they work for another agency, used to work FT, or have a full time non-LE gig and do the PT stuff on the side. Many states require the same training from part timers as they do full time officers and make no distinction in their training requirements. Basically either you're a certified police officer or you aren't.

    How the smaller agencies that rely on part times remains to be seen - whether they do more self sponsors, hire, sponsor, and pay part timers to go through the academy, etc. In the end we will hopefully see more academy classes and evening classes to adapt to the educational requirements and demands. Other states do FT academies on nights and weekends, similar to what some reserve academies have been doing.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
    NG1992, FAPD, RodneyFarva and 2 others like this.
  14. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    I doubt it. Part timers cost a lot less money. What WOULD end part timers is if they ended sponsorship and only allowed hired cadets to attend the academy; no department is going to drop thousands of dollars and wait 6 months for a guy to only work 20 hours a week.
    Goose, RodneyFarva and CCCSD like this.
  15. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    One thing is certain. We're ALL indulging in sheer speculation at this point. Nobody right now knows for certain where, when, or how this is going to shake out, till at least Summer or Fall.
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  16. CCCSD

    CCCSD MassCops Member

    I heard...
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  17. MiamiVice

    MiamiVice MassCops Member

    Word is no new reserve/PT cops can be hired after 7/1, existing are grandfathered

    Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  18. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Maybe not MSP but I could see more departments explore the idea of regionalizing resources, it seems they have been testing the waters for this for this over the last several years with department like:

    Wachusetts Regional Dispatch who cover for West Boylston, Holden and Princeton.

    Rutland Regional Dispatch who covers Rutland, Barre, Hubbardston and Oakham.

    Nashoba Valley Regional who have been dispatching for not just for several towns, Lunenburg, Lancaster, Harvard, Devens Community, Bolton, Berlin, Townsend as well as Devens Military Police and MSP (C9).

    You are all correct but also keep in mind there would be a huge turnover rate. A smaller Town let us call it "Podunk, Ma" drops a chunk of change on a 21-year-old kid for the full-time academy only to have him/her bail after 6 months to go to a bigger municipality thus leaving the sponsoring town in the lurch and stuck with the bill.

    I work only as a part-time LEO. The reason I can do this and remain financially stable is the fact Part-time police officers in my department have the first right of refusal for any all-open patrol shift. In exchange language was written into our union contract where full-time officers SHALL get offered ALL details first, if the detail cannot be filled by a full-time officer it is then paged out to the part-time officers and can then bid for the job.

    Now on the flip side if a patrol shift cannot be filled with part-time officer it would be paged out to the full-time officers for overtime.

    Now let us say if a patrol shift cannot be filled by either full or part-time officers, we will just drop down to one officer working alone the road, this can be either part-time or full-time guy. We normally try to run two guys per shift however we are down full-time position. I have been working there for some time now and I can count on one hand the times a full-time officer was ordered to stay. So, the idea of part-time jobs going away is highly unlikely at least in my department with all the vacation, personal, comp-time, sick time the full-time officers get per our union contract. All those open shifts would have to be filled by overtime, and most of the time that would be involuntary with officer who still have Quinn or a educational incentive.

    And that’s not mention open shifts due to full time vacancies, in-service training or if the detective, who also works patrol is working on an investigation they will call a third guy to cover.

    That's a fuck load of a funding increase for just a 9 man full time police department in a town of about 3500 residents.
    Goose and CCCSD like this.
  19. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    I don't see the exact correlation between regional dispatch, and regional PD's. Dispatchers training and "liability" issues, coupled with staffing comparison doesn't equate to the sworn personnel requirements for regional PD. Nashoba is also having issues with at least two towns not happy and looking to leave. Devens doesn't have any MP's either.
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  20. Treehouse413

    Treehouse413 MassCops Member

    You have to remember when laws are written generally they are not very well thought out . This may ended being a mandate which is unfunded by the state .
    FAPD likes this.
  21. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Like I said I suspect its the powers to be testing the waters they have the mentality of "if it can work here, maybe we can use it in the field." I know a couple of small departments that with have 3 guys on days one of them being a sgt then a 4th who is the SRO, but as soon as the clock strikes midnight they have one officer on.
    ...Shot in the dark, Townsend? are they still using their old DPW radios or have they since upgraded?
    mpd61 likes this.
  22. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    Yes and no LOL!!!!!
    RodneyFarva likes this.
  23. USM C-2

    USM C-2 MassCops Member

    Maybe we should take a good idea from Mississippi - if an academy graduate leaves the sponsoring department after less than two years, the new department has to reimburse the sponsoring department for the cost of the academy.

    I know we had to write that check a few times. And we got a few checks sent our way in exchange, so it most likely more or less evened out.
    Hush and EUPD377 like this.
  24. FAPD

    FAPD MassCops Member

    I knew it! a backdoor ploy by Michelle Wu, Rachel Rollins, Ayanna Presley and others of their ilk to end us........
  25. EUPD377

    EUPD377 Southern Campus Cop

    Do towns that use MSP as their primary agency have to pay any sort of contract fee or anything to the state police, or is it free since they’re paid for through state taxes? Around here we don’t have state police per se, but the sheriff’s office patrols all the unincorporated areas of the county, and incorporated areas can choose to contract with them for law enforcement, but must pay a fee. Generally, it’s a little bit cheaper than what it would cost for their own PD, but the sheriff doesn’t provide law enforcement articles for incorporated area for free. If the state police were to cover the town for free, does the town have any incentive (besides more frequent patrols and shorter response time) to have their own PD?

    As an interesting aside, by a quirk or state law here, the only people allowed to serve civil papers are sheriffs deputies and highway patrol troopers. There was one sheriffs office a couple years back that was so short on manpower due to low morale and high turnover, that they had to have the highway patrol serve civil papers in the county for them. The state charged the sheriffs office a pretty good fee for each process served and I believe ended up making a profit out of the deal.

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