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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

New Hampshire allowed flaggers in a while ago and it really sucks when your siting at home with no OT watching a retard steal your money on a road job.. Fight this all of the way because once you lose it you will never get it back. Some
Yup- And once the "secondary and terciary" roads go, the main roads won't be far behind. Has anyone heard from the MPA or SPAM on this?
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

Unfortunately I think this threat to details is very real this time. In a down(ing) economy, and with the post-Big-Dig debts and transportation budgets being so bad, this a concerning. They have a lot of "armament" and as you read the postings on Boston.com, the public might not be hard to sway. They have chosen their timing very well.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

New Hampshire allowed flaggers in a while ago and it really sucks when your siting at home with no OT watching a retard steal your money on a road job.. Fight this all of the way because once you lose it you will never get it back.
That's the truth. It doesn't matter if the roads are covered in an ocean of blood....once they're gone, they are gone forever. Politicians would rather see the people in the commonwealth suffer than admit to making a mistake.

Prepare yourselves; you are not entering reality...you are entering the DiMasi spin zone. Facts are irrelevant. Watch your TV. The state is always right. Happiness is mandatory.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

The State is saying this will save money, but it does not make sense to me. I may be reading it wrong, but my understanding is that details on smaller less busy roads will be given to flagmen. These details tend to be by private companies such as NSTAR, Comcast, etc who pay for the officer, not the town. The majortity of these local construction projects are private jobs, not costing the city/town anything.

In the plan, the SP would keep their details on the highways (as they need to be out there). Work on the highways are done by state and town departments. Even if there is a contractor, the detail is paid for by the highway department. So if there are to be details on these busy roads and the state is still paying for them, then where is the savings?

Beyond that, how do they expect to recruit new officers? If you are looking at any job and see that the salar was just slashed, do you think many qualified candidates are going to apply? These candidates are going to go to other states, as most do now anyway, go into the private sector, or find something else that pays better.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

As of 7/1/08 the laborer prevailing wage is going to be $47 hr which is what they would have to pay a flagman. Maybe we should all become flagmen part-time and have no responsibilities on a detail like we do now.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

As of 7/1/08 the laborer prevailing wage is going to be $47 hr which is what they would have to pay a flagman. Maybe we should all become flagmen part-time and have no responsibilities on a detail like we do now.
I second that notion.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

Yet the IUPA and a lot of other large unions that represent police officers usually endorse Demo-rats - IUPA and all those other AFLCIO affiliated unions can pound sand if they urge me to vote for one of those democ-maggots - I don't want one red cent of my dues going to a dem's coffers via a union I am part of. Cohen/DeMarco, that other bill and now this - it's always the democ-rats that disparage police and water down bills like Melanie's Law - anti police, pro criminal...dems suck
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

As of 7/1/08 the laborer prevailing wage is going to be $47 hr which is what they would have to pay a flagman. Maybe we should all become flagmen part-time and have no responsibilities on a detail like we do now.
Are you kidding me? It is bad enough that a garbage man makes more than me straight time, now flagmen. :pinch:
 
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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

As of 7/1/08 the laborer prevailing wage is going to be $47 hr which is what they would have to pay a flagman. Maybe we should all become flagmen part-time and have no responsibilities on a detail like we do now.
This proposal has absolutely, positively nothing to do with saving money. It's all about taking care of certain people who have already incorporated (or soon will) companies to supply flagmen to construction sites. In many cases, the very politicians who will be voting on the measure.

From what I've heard there's a good chance there will be a public hearing on this matter on April 17th at the state house.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

From what I've heard there's a good chance there will be a public hearing on this matter on April 17th at the state house.[/quote]

I would hope that our unions and our membership will have a great turnout to show them what we think of this proposal
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

As soon as I hear a solid date/time, I'll post it here.
Thanks, If I hear anything I will do the same

Boston Globe:

State takes aim at police details

The state's top leaders vowed yesterday to use their combined political might to take on powerful police unions by limiting construction details, a longstanding cash cow for police officers that critics for years have called a waste of taxpayer dollars. (By Matt Viser, Boston Globe)
My Posting on the Globe Blog:

Message #26438.118 in response to #26438.107
Posted by kwflatbed on 9:58 AM

I just wish that everyone posting here would learn the real truth behind all of this,
if this bill should pass the only ones that would benefit from it are the overpaid,self-serving
politicians that have formed the company's to provide the flag men.
I can see it now all of their five foot tall,five foot wide kin folk who can not move out of their
own way feeding from the money trough that their self-serving politican cousins has set up.
Who is the winner here ?
Not the safety of the people of Massachusetts,only the overstuffed politician's wallets.
Do a web search and see how many times a detail officer has made an arrest, stopped
a drunk driver from killing someone.
Can your overweight flag waiver do that, details put more officers on the streets and save lives.
The politicians in this state do enough to increase taxes with the bills that they pass for welfare,
illegal immigrants,and the rest of the people to lazy to go out and get a job.
There will be no savings to the paying public if this is passed.
I felt that I needed to post a reply on boston.com also. Here is my response...can't wait to see what I get for replies from the uniformed public that only listens to the biased media...

The prevailing wage rate for a flagger is around $30 per hour. That is just for the worker. Factor in the price that the company who employs the flagger is going to charge the construction company. Factor in the benefits, etc....and then give an amount of how much the taxpayers are going to save.

Do people really think that a company that has to pay the worker $30/hour and the benefits is not going to be charging the utilities and construction companies at least $50 hour? They are in business to make a profit.

I would suggest people look at what the starting salaries are for police officers. I can guarantee you that other states that have the same cost of living situations such as Massachusetts actually have a good wage scale. In Massachusetts the average salary is around $40K. Why anyone would want to take a job that requires one to work nights, weekends and holidays for low pay is anyone's guess.

As far as someone who said that we should put more police on the street, how do you expect to pay for it? Do you think you are going to get volunteers? If you do, you should go back to the fantasy world that you live in. When people retire and nobody wants to take a police job, expect overtime salaries to go up or expect less police on the streets. That said. be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

What will happen to the revenue that the towns/cities receive for having details? That money has to be made up somewhere
Flagmen have no authority whatsoever. What will happen when people realize this and decide that they just don't want to follow the instructions....nothing as nothing can be done.

Rather than trying to take money out of a person's pocket, why don't the State Reps go after the companies that screwed up the Big Dig? oh that is right, it is easier to use smoke and mirrors and make the public think they are getting a bargain than actually save money...think of a magic show..while the magician has you focused on one thing, he is actually doing something else

I

Reply

meant to be uninformed public
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

I had to check out the new posting on the Herald's 2007 state salary chart before my friends and family start ribbing me about my income :BM: , and noticed that the FIRST 6 PAGES of highest state incomes are UMass employees.

I mean an Ast Prof can make over $200K/year, bring no public benefit to the commonwealth and laughs all the way to the bank. He takes on more classes, just like OT and details, to make more money and nobody blinks and eye.

The money, for the most part, comes from student tuition, education grants, and some from state tax revenue. Just like details, the money comes from the contractor, some grants, and some tax revenue. Where's the outrage? I'm gonna be a professor and teach at UMass as a part-timer and make $200K.

Here's a math thingy I dreamt up this morning:

If I made $10K in OT and details, of which the money came from grants and contractors, I would pay roughly 5.3% in taxes to the state. On top of that I pay 12%, another $1200 into my pension, which the STATE takes to make more money in interest. So, how are they losing money? Anybody else with me on this?

To the citizens of the commonwealth reading this spot: it's called the SHELL GAME, but as long as you feel better about taking police off the street, sleep well my friends.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

New traffic detail bill is facing a rough road

BY JIM HAND / SUN CHRONICLE STAFF
Sunday, March 30, 2008 1:17 AM EDT


MIKE GEORGE
Plainville Special Officer David Rando directs traffic around construction at the intersection of Routes 1 and 152 Friday.

A proposal to allow flagmen instead of police to direct traffic at roadside construction sites is in for a tough time at the Statehouse, local police and politicians said in interviews with The Sun Chronicle.

They said William Weld tried to pass the same legislation when he was governor, and it was soundly defeated by police unions and sympathetic lawmakers.

"Been there, done that," Plainville Police Chief Edward Merrick said.

He predicted police unions will come out in force, and supporters will have trouble finding allies among municipal officials.

Gov. Deval Patrick, House Speaker Sal DiMasi and Senate President Therese Murray are behind the measure to allow flagmen, rather than police, direct traffic when it is deemed safe to do so.

Murray said the change could save $100 million over 20 years.

State Rep. Betty Poirier, R-North Attleboro, said the prospect of the bill depends on how police unions react.

Last time, the unions came out in force and lobbied lawmakers to defeat it.

"I never saw so many cops at the Statehouse," Merrick said.

The detail fees paid to police for doing the extra traffic duty is a major source of income for many officers.

But, police argue it is also a public safety issue.

Mansfield Police Chief Arthur O'Neill said motorists are more likely to obey the commands of a police officer than a flagman.

"They have the power and majesty of the law behind them," he said. "The motorist has to obey the police."

Merrick said he would never allow flagmen at dangerous locations such as the construction of a Lowe's store on Route 1. Police and flashing cruiser lights are needed at sites like that.

O'Neill said having police on traffic details often leads to arrests and citations for violators who might otherwise go undetected.

He said cities and towns also get a processing fee out of the detail pay that helps them with their financial needs. Mansfield gets 10 percent of what the officers bring in.

Merrick said municipal officials are unlikely to support the change because they believe the detail pay police earn allows them to hold regular salaries down.

But Poirier said she supports the change.

"It's absolutely a cost savings for this state, and we are in a position where we have to reduce expenditures," she said of a shift away from police details.
Poirier also said she is surprised Patrick is supporting the move because he is generally allied with unions.

Merrick said Plainville has a town bylaw that already allows for flagmen at sites deemed appropriate, but no one has ever applied for permission. He said he also has the authority to waive the requirement for a police detail if the site is on a quiet road.

JIM HAND covers politics for The Sun Chronicle. He can be reached at 508-236-0399 or at [email protected].

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2008/03/30/news/2973848.txt
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

I can see the headlines now in the Boston Herald. "Route 1 in Foxboro closed due to 57 Flagman/women assaulted at Sunday's NE Patriots game by unruly NY Jets fans. The game started yesterday(Sunday) at its posted time of 1:15pm and ended at 3:45 pm. The last vehicle a NY Jets tour bus finally left parking lot P-10 at 6:45 pm today (Monday). Traffic delays for over 26 hrs caused unruly fans to exit the bus where they were confronted by a 400lb man waiving an orange flag. The man tried to get on the bus and finish off a plate of nachos he saw in the bakground when he was then assaulted by the fans. The flagman some how called for back-up which took up to four hours to get there to assist. Upon arriving at the scene the other 56 400lb Flagman/women(driving Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey clown cars) were also assaulted due to the fact they tried to get at the same plate of nachos. Rte 1 was open several hours later and a law was passed that week banning nachos from all future NE Patriots games". To all of my brother/sisters in blue we must unite and stand together on this issue. We must fight for our livelyhoods and defeat this crap. Stay safe and lets do the right thing!
If there is a public hearing, we must have as many attend as possible. This smells of a backroom deal between the powers that be and unless we stand together on this, details will become a thing of the past.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

This issue would be much more fair if they just paid cops a more liveable wage in Massachusetts... $49k in my town (top of scale)... it's a joke.

People *have* to do details to make ends meet. Do people not understand that it's not fun to sit bored out of your skull directing traffic, in the rain, snow, and wind for an *extra* 4-8 hours on your "day off" just to be able to meet the cost of living?

The press publish stories about officers making over $200k, but how many people make even near that much? They don't publish mean or median incomes. If they did, the sensationalism of the story would be lost of course.
 

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Re: Police Detail slashed in transportation refrom pitch

I have started my letter to a local state senator whom I happen to be on a first name basis with. I will let you know what response I get from him when I am done.

I also urge others to write their local reps too. Making posts or leaving comments on blogs or website like Harry has done is helpfull too.

Give them examples if you can of any extraordinary circumstance or services you have provided while on detail. (EX: citations, made an arrest, etc.)
 
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