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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay!

What you kids think about retiring the shotgun and replacing with .223 or 9mm carbines?

And don't anybody start breathing hard or we'll get the topic closed. (just kiddin)
 

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How about the PREDATOR gun, that Gov.Jesse Ventura had in Predator. Just taking that out of the cruiser would make anyone give up!!
 

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Ah boys,
There is nothing more fearful than the sound of that 12 guage racking a round. Or the comical look of fear on a felons face when he see's that big bore staring at him. You can save the rifle for the long shots.

Mikefo
 

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It never hurts to have all the tools in the tool box. I would want both the 223 rifle and shotgun in the cruiser. I don't have much use for the 9mm carbine in a patrol setting. "It is better to have them and never need them, than the one time you need them, you don't have them".
 

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I think each patrol rifle has its own purpose. I don't know about eliminating the shotgun, but I think more and more use has been found (especially lately) for other assault rifles. Law enforcement had a rude awakening when we were out-gunned in a few gun fights. With the rise in Mr. and Mrs. Citizen acquiring high powered rifles, the need for more powerful rifles for police has grown over the years. I personally love the shotgun, but I would feel more comfortable going into a sticky situation with an AR-15...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well said.........

The shotgun is powerful and intimidating close up,
kinda worthless past 35-40 yards though. Most encounters happen in under seven yards and the shotgun can be unwieldy and cumbersome at times.

AR-15 carbines are arguably more ergonomic and lightweight for one hand use while fumbling for other things (radio/cuffs/etc.) And they are MUCH more accurate for ANY distance than the sewer pipe. Miami and L.A. shootouts would have probably been different had the good folks in blue been carrying AR's/Mini-14's/HK-93/etc.

That's why Madison, Wisconsin and U/Mass Amherst are at the forefront in this context.

Shotguns are better for ducks and doorhinges though!


p.s. My M1 garand is in my trunk with 64 rounds in the clips. (boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom, PING!!!!
 

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That I know of, Upton & Bolton carry both in the car. Out in the boonies, you can't always wait for a big blue SWAT truck to arrive. After Columbine, the public expects us to act instead of simply containing. If I am going into such an environment, I want the proper tools to do a proper job.

Stay safe everyone.
 

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El Cajon, CA police deploy their cage mounted Ruger carbines at every Pedestrian "Hot Stop"...but most prefer their 870's for that purpose.
 

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Definetly the H&K G36. 2 Stacked 30 round mags. Very good at long ranges but just as efective close in. My buddy Chris was all over the papers, even the Globe, last week with on slung up in front of the Capitol. There is also a good use of a Beneli autoloader.
 

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gotta have the AR-15 sitting right front with ya, its a head turner for the folks sitting in th eback, as well as a hell of a weapon
 

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I heard some of the MSP marine guys are carrying M14s now.. in addition to all of their other toys.

Personally, I like the HK UMP.. but G36 practical.

J
 

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Stick with the shotguns. I love shotguns. Screw the .223. Nothing says "I am the Boss" like the muzzle of a 12gauge shotgun staring you in the face. BANG!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally posted by Cpl. Jason McGovern:
Stick with the shotguns. I love shotguns. Screw the .223. Nothing says "I am the Boss" like the muzzle of a 12gauge shotgun staring you in the face. BANG!
Oh you rookies!
that twelve gauge sewer pipe isn't very intimidating at 25 yards, let alone 100+!!!!

And if you want to rack the slide cuz it sounds cool, you've been out of battery too long!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
fuocok said:
I like the patrol rifles better myself. Only problem with them is each rifle has to be sighted for each user.
Ahhhhh.......
I think you need to explain that statement. Cuz you're scaring me............
"sighted for each user"
:-s
 

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To get hit center mass at longer ranges any long arm (rifle, shotgun, etc.) needs to be sighted to the user. This has to do with were they hold their eye and how the stock is seated in their shoulder. Each person has subtle differences that don't really matter when at close range, but the further you are from the target you need to fine tune these adjustments. A good shooter can keep a tight group but that group may be 4-6 inches away from where he/she wants to hit. That's where sight adjustment comes into play.
My two cents on what you should carry......each is situationally advantageous. If you can only carry one you need to decide what you are more likely going to need it for. Some may say they can use a AR or M4 for whatever they need but when your .223 round goes screaming thru both sides of the mobile home and thru three others in the trailer park, maybe that wasn't the best round to use. On the other hand if you need to make a 75 yd head shot you don't want to have to take into consideration the drop or "fade" that 12 ga slug is going to make, that Colt is probably going to be dead nuts. Those of you who know what they are, I've never seen a ferret round in .223 either.......each is situationally advantageous!
Your best bet is to hopefully never be in a situation where you have to use one.
Stay safe 8)
 

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I'm with the "keep 'em both crowd". One of my departments is in the process of putting both in the vehicles. Mossberg M590A1 12 GA with ghost ring sights, AR-15 with stock sighting and 8 M-16 full autos on standy in the station tucked away in the gun lockers.


Ed
 
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