OIS video | MassCops

OIS video

Discussion in 'Patrol' started by LA Copper, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Let's have a bit of a discussion about this one. Thank goodness the officers are fine but let's talk tactics... or maybe the lack there of.

    Joel98, TacEntry and Hush like this.
  2. patrol22

    patrol22 MassCops Member

    There were certainly some crossfire issues and a lack of communication on what they were doing and what was going on.

    I would have waited and kept talking to the guy. It seems like the suspect was pretty well isolated (perimeter was set around him) and he had no plans on taking off since he was sitting down. It looked to be a relatively quiet area and time was on their side.

    I also wouldn’t have approached without any sort of cover (cruiser, shield, etc)
    BxDetSgt, Joel98, Goose and 1 other person like this.
  3. Treehouse413

    Treehouse413 MassCops Member

    1. You don’t bring a taser to a gun fight.
    2. nice transition from rifle to baton.

    QUOTE="LA Copper, post: 1098087, member: 1514"]Let's have a bit of a discussion about this one. Thank goodness the officers are fine but let's talk tactics... or maybe the lack there of.

    RodneyFarva likes this.
  4. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member


    Are you being facetious about the baton thing?
    Joel98 likes this.
  5. Treehouse413

    Treehouse413 MassCops Member

    Yes. Why would you drop the rifle and grab a baton.
    yellowlabs68 and LA Copper like this.
  6. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Agreed. Just making sure.

    The minute these officers left cover and began approaching an armed suspect on foot is where I started to cringe.
    mpd61 and Joel98 like this.
  7. TacEntry

    TacEntry MassCops Member

    Time is on the officers.side in this situation. There is no need to rush to your potential death or injury.

    Maintain cover and long gun cover on the suspect, awareness of crossfire and civilians in the area. Use PA on cruiser instead of screaming. Wait til he's tired - maybe establish a widening security perimeter and get some adult supervision.
    kdk240, Goose, Joel98 and 1 other person like this.
  8. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Outstanding, I completely agree. This OIS didn't have to occur the way it did. The officers precipitated it by approaching him when they should have remained behind cover. Why approach a man with a gun, especially a shotgun. Stay behind cover and wait him out.

    Notice he pointed the shotgun at the officers twice as they approached before someone finally shot. They are lucky he didn't pull the trigger.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
    BxDetSgt, Joel98 and TacEntry like this.
  9. Joel98

    Joel98 MassCops Member

    I’m just cringing as I watch that.

    Why are they approaching an armed suspect?

    Time is on their side, just shut down all the roads, evacuate residents and call for more resources, like a negotiator, SWAT, K9 and an airship. And then just sit there and wait, they have all the time in the world. No need to rush things, especially with an armed suspect.

    Leaving the protection of cover when you have an armed suspect is just plain stupid, pardon my French.
    kdk240, Goose and LA Copper like this.
  10. Drebbin

    Drebbin MassCops Member

    That was very close to being a friendly fire incident. I hope they held a debrief of the incident and training.
    Goose and LA Copper like this.
  11. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Good point. The officer walked into the line of fire of the deputy and almost got himself shot from behind. The suspect leveled the shotgun at two of them before being shot. They are all lucky he didn't fire at them.

    This is an excellent video to learn from. Hopefully personnel from both departments did so, as should all of us.
  12. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    What can I say...negligent lack of training on both an agency and individual officer level. There are some basic tactical concepts that aren't rocket science and don't need specific instruction...like staying online when advancing. Don't expect the department to spoon feed every little bit of training and info you will need....if your goal is to get home safe, take a good training class out of your own time and budget. There's lots of options out there. I see cops every day who refuse to take the initiative for their own learning unless they're on OT or its free. When I attend classes on my own, and the instructor ends the day and asks if anyone wants to stick around....the cops sent by their departments are already packed up and gone. They are the ones not taking notes, not asking questions. I've heard every excuse, but I've run out of sympathy for people who get killed as a result of their own piss poor tactics.
    mpd61, kdk240, LA Copper and 2 others like this.
  13. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    The main concern I have is the MULTIPLE and Continuous muzzle sweeps as everybody starts "slow dancing" towards the guy.
    I don't think the dumbest infantry grunt shitting his pants in battle would ever do that..............:eek:
    Joel98 likes this.
  14. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    My main concern is them leaving cover to approach a guy with a shotgun.
    BxDetSgt, Joel98, mpd61 and 2 others like this.
  15. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

    I wonder what was going through the mind of the Officer that attempted to baton strike the rifle/shotgun/air soft gun? Uh oh he's pointing it at me . . . I know! ill baton strike it out of his hands!
  16. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Probably something like "I realize I am unprepared to take a human life, even if its in defense of my own or my brothers beside me. Wish I had stayed behind cover and let someone more qualified advance on an armed subject. I wonder if the fire department is taking applications."
    Joel98, mpd61, USM C-2 and 2 others like this.
  17. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    If a bad guy was pointing a gun at ME, and the guy next to me took it upon himself to play Bruce Lee with an expandable baton rather than shooting that bad guy in the face, there would be a LONG discussion about that after work and one of us wouldn't be working there the next day.
    Joel98, mpd61 and Goose like this.
  18. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    Maybe he should have tried this;
    Goose, ShmitDiesel and Hush like this.

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