Officer among 12 killed in mass shooting at bar in Thousand Oaks, California | Page 2 | MassCops

Officer among 12 killed in mass shooting at bar in Thousand Oaks, California

Discussion in 'Line of Duty Death News' started by kwflatbed, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. 38bigblock

    38bigblock MassCops Member

  2. PBC FL Cop

    PBC FL Cop Subscribing Member

    The only exception the policy had for NOT carrying a firearm off-duty was if the officer was participating in a sporting event which prohibited one from carrying a firearm ie; swimming, playing football, etc.
  3. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    The bar restricted carry even by off duty cops by include metal detectors. The unarmed guard running security was the first victim.

    There is a LE U/FOUO Bulletin being circulated that supposedly goes into some of the killers social media postings...that sound an awful lot like pro gun control arguments.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
  4. JimBrown

    JimBrown MassCops Member

    I wonder how strictly it was enforced and to what degree of discipline would be imposed. I've heard about a sheriff from years ago that was known to always check his guys if he saw them off duty and would throw the book at them if they were unarmed.

    Interesting article from a while back:
    Should off-duty cops carry guns at bars? City weighs
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  5. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    "You're required to carry a gun, but if you do get drunk and do something stupid, then you're held responsible," said Peter Moskos, a professor at John Jay College and former Baltimore officer.

    Yup, it's called Big Boy rules.

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  6. CCCSD

    CCCSD MassCops Member

    If you’re required to carry a firearm off duty, then are you expected to act? If so, then how much OT do they pay you for your time, since that puts you on duty?
  7. PBC FL Cop

    PBC FL Cop Subscribing Member

    OT for a cop carrying their firearm off duty? Is that the question?
    I take it you're not a student of Lt. Col. Grossman
    Goose, 38bigblock and Hush like this.
  8. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    PBC FL Cop likes this.
  9. 38bigblock

    38bigblock MassCops Member

    Lol, I’d never expect my agency to pay me in order to carry off duty. I’m glad they let everyone qual with an off duty weapon during qual to clear up any LEOSA hiccups. Same with a take home car. I wouldn’t expect them to pay me for that too. Not that we have them, but if we did!
  10. Truck

    Truck MassCops Member

    ^There it is, pretty much defines what school of thought he belongs to.
    PBC FL Cop likes this.
  11. CCCSD

    CCCSD MassCops Member

    You assume much. It’s also interesting how much koolaid is sucked down. Grossman, blah, blah, blah. Same old tired Sheepdog talk. He has some points, but isn’t the be all end all of cop work. Only needed to hear him once. Don’t have to again and again.

    I ASKED: if an agency mandates taking action OFF DUTY, are they paying you for it? You see, there are times when one should be allowed to be off duty. If your agency says you are on duty 24 hours a day, then yes, I would expect to be compensated: would you work a second job for free? No? Why not? Will your agency completely cover you in all aspects if you take action off duty? Yes? Great. No? Probably 90%out there. Would you work an assignment that requires you to be on call with no pay bump or call time? Why? Same thing.

    All you guys wearing Sheepdog shirts...yeah. Wearing something doesn’t make you anything...but a target. I’m betting you have cop/blue line shit all over your gear and cars.

    Hush et al, you don’t know anything about me, so before you accuse me of being a poser, you might want to do some research.

    Most of you have never been in an OIS or off duty incident. If you had, you would know that legal coverage is more important than how big a gun you carry or think you are. Endangering your family, because you THINK you are a Sheepdog is fucking stupid and selfish.
  12. 38bigblock

    38bigblock MassCops Member

    There is a lot of info that wasn’t added into the first comment. That being said, the entire situation has changed and how it is perceived was also changed, so the replies will change as well.
  13. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    CCSD, my comment was more an opportunity to insert a good Departed quote than a dig at you personally.
    Its hard to have a policy discussion, without agency specific policies to refer to. I think off-duty officer response can cause more headaches than it solves sometimes. I hope a policy would limit that to serious life threats, such as an active shooter. There are cops who don't want to carry a gun off duty at ALL. I think if they feel that way, they should leave it locked up in the station with their badge when they're not on duty. I think in places where LE places unreasonable and onerous restrictions on law abiding citizens ability to carry concealed for their own self defense, cops have DUTY to carry off duty because they are often the only people with the ability to be armed in public places.
    Sure, at the end of the day its a choice....but I bet not a single one of those 6 off duty officers is relieved they left their guns at home or in the car.
    Goose likes this.
  14. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Update to this story.

    It was just announced that the suspect struck Sergeant Helus five times with his .45 handgun but none of the rounds were fatal. Unfortunately, the fatal round was fired by the CHP officer who was with Sergeant Helus in the gunfight. It was his rifle round struck that struck Helus in the heart.

    What a tragic turn of events. I can't even imagine how this CHP officer must feel now that he knows this. Both men displayed extreme bravery to enter the location while the shooting and chaos were ongoing. It's a shame it culminated the way it did. Another example of how dangerous and unpredictable our profession really is.
    Sooty, girlcop21, pahapoika and 3 others like this.
  15. 38bigblock

    38bigblock MassCops Member

    Any one of us would have a hard time knowing that. Very sad, thank you for the update LA.
  16. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    Most everything we talk about here is about personal choices.
    1. I'll carry a firearm off-duty ANYWHERE/ANYTIME I chose. Not because I'd EVER want to use it, but because LEOSA and the second Amendment say I can.
    2. I'll carry into a Bar and/or a posted movie theater or like venue, because only I AM RESPONSIBLE for protecting my life and that of my family. Owners or management ask me to leave, good for them
    3. These PRIVATE entities (Like the above bar) that have posted and enforce such policies, should be SUED out of existance by the families of those killed & wounded. Unarmed security + no armed cops
    = dead innocents
    Hush, Goose and 38bigblock like this.
  17. JimBrown

    JimBrown MassCops Member

    I support the right to carry but I also support a private business's right to not allow firearms on to their own property. People can chose not to patronize an establishment like that, but to sue them out of business is just not right. People have become too litigious there days.
  18. 38bigblock

    38bigblock MassCops Member

    @mpd61 for President. 2020
  19. HistoryHound

    HistoryHound Supporting Member

    We're not talking about frivolous lawsuits here. If a business chooses to have policies that put patrons' safety at risk and deny them the right to defend themselves; then, the families and survivors have every right to sue without being overly litigious.
    Sooty, Goose and mpd61 like this.
  20. JimBrown

    JimBrown MassCops Member

    But that policy is not creating the risk, the gunman is. If the bar allowed people to carry on their property and someone got injured by one of those firearms, would the bar also be liable for allowing that person in with a gun? The bars screwed either way.
    I say if you don't support the bars anti-gun policy, go somewhere else. But you can't sue the anti-gun bar you knowingly went into because they didn't allow guns.
  21. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    I support your right to state your opinion in this case....................however, in the context of this specific case;
    The anti-gun bar DID willingly establish conditions that elevated the risk by CHOOSING TO ELIMINATE lawfully licensed carry on their premises, RESTRICTING the right and ability of their patrons to defend themselves lawfully from unlawful and deadly actions. I could be wrong, you could be right, but that's why we have courts in the first place.
  22. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Most business anti gun policies consist of a sign on a door. That's not keeping anyone with a gun out, good or bad, it's just about their corporate liability and insurance policies. Those signs can be ignored guilt free.

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  23. Sooty

    Sooty Administrator

    If it's concealed... the owner/management isn't going to know it's there... till cause arises for them to be thankful it was.
    38bigblock and HistoryHound like this.

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