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Grim reaper
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Author: CHRISTOPHER SCOTT and MICHAEL LAFLEUR, Sun Staff
Date: October 27, 2004
Publication: Sun, The (Lowell, MA)

LOWELL City Manager John Cox left Fenway Park last Saturday night happy the Red Sox had just beat the Cardinals 11-9 in the first game of the World Series.


But Cox was mad about who he saw at the game: Lowell police Sgt. Russ Taylor on duty.

Cox, who attended the game as a guest of his brother, is saying little publicly.

But he's upset that Police Superintendent Edward Davis dispatched 10 police officers to both the Saturday and Sunday games to assist with crowd control under a NEMLEC request.


:arrow: does anyone know the latest on this? what happened?
 

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Nothing at this point has happened. The Lowell officers were at all of the world series call outs as well as the parade. They continue to be members of the NEMLEC units.
 

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Author: CHRISTOPHER SCOTT and MICHAEL LAFLEUR, Sun Staff
Date: October 27, 2004
Publication: Sun, The (Lowell, MA)

LOWELL City Manager John Cox left Fenway Park last Saturday night happy the Red Sox had just beat the Cardinals 11-9 in the first game of the World Series.

But Cox was mad about who he saw at the game: Lowell police Sgt. Russ Taylor on duty.

Cox, who attended the game as a guest of his brother, is saying little publicly.

But he's upset that Police Superintendent Edward Davis dispatched 10 police officers to both the Saturday and Sunday games to assist with crowd control under a NEMLEC request.

:arrow: does anyone know the latest on this? what happened?
First of all, the mayor must have been living under a rock if he did not see or read about the first roits after the ALCS and how BPD was going to be prepared if they won the World Series.

Second, it is mutual aid!

Third, regardless of whether it is a Red Sox game or another function that may not be so entertaining (ie. DNC, etc...) that needs a large amount of security, a mutual aid request should be honored if possible, especially where NEMLEC is trained for the type of situations that could have occurred.

I find it hard to believe that if 10 officers were there under a NEMLEC activation, the City of Lowell was short staffed for the night. Is the mayor really that elite that only he deserves to be at the game?
 

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Ahem, once again, and ad nauseum, the state police exist to cover just this type of scenario...VOR's points are valid: you already pay taxes for the state to assume this burden. If you want to work a variety of towns/cities...enlist with the MSP. Period.

I apologize if I have wrecked some folks "delusions of grandeur"...but, hey, Pinkertons and Burns always need help...
 

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I have come to the conclusion that we should just disband all local police departments and let the SP handle it. Why do we need local police.
WTF. :up:
Mutual aid is a fact of life. There is no single agency in this state that can handle everything. Not even the all mighty state police. I spent two hour of my shift the other night in a neighboring town backing them up and I know they would come if we needed them. I guess I should have refused if I used the logic of the nit wits on this board. Oh by the way there were troopers there also. Does anyone out there who has a problem with mutual aid know how many troopers are working at a given time in an area. The barracks that services my area has 3 I believe. But because they are the state police I am sure they can handle all problems in their patrol area. Get real. Mutual Aid is a great tool.
The State Police are a great resource but they can't handle it all.
Teams like NEMLEC are a great resource as well
 

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If you'd like to cover one-another during a shortage... fine. But for a non-emergency situation, known aforehand, call the state.

No, the locals should not be disbanded...but neither should they attempt to do the job of the MSP. Topcop, there is a single agency that can handle all contingencies: it's the MSP. We have no interest in coming into your city and handling day-to-day business. But we are available for the unexpected, or expected, threats.

Here's the part you're not gonna like: the MSP have the training and experience to handle these extraordinary occurrances. The locals do not. They have no unity in their manner of training, period. I do not care what kind of a "super-cop" you consider yourself to be...just in the realm of Accident Recon, I see more collisions in a year than most "LEC" guys do in their careers. The same applies to K9, fire marshall, CPAC, etc.

The fact is, you do not (and can not) investigate the number of crimes that would provide you with a level of expertise that the MSP has.

No brag, just fact. Please don't mistake this for an attack of "you're stupid, so there!", because it's not! No one here intimates that you don't have the intelligence to do the specialized jobs: it's just LOGISTICALLY BEYOND YOUR REACH!
 
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Lowell and U/Lowell had their hands full during the ACLS/WS. I'm sure some of the LPD officers would have liked the 10 fellow officers around, esp. the guys who were forced to stay past their shift.
 

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Please..It's time everyone grows up a little on both sides. No one is going to take anyone's job or is looking to anything like that. Just not going to happen. We keep arguing over things like this, we got a much better chance of losing details and the Quinn Bill than any personnel.

I can understand why any SPAM member would be looking out for their members, just as any local would do the same, but let's face it, no MSP personnel are losing money over any LEC's. There is more than enough work to go around for everyone. Usually more.

For all of you complaining about tax dollars, shouldn't it be about providing the most efficient services for the public. Some of you must agree that having a SERT team member respond from Sturbridge to the Cape for a activation can not be as efficient as calling an officer from the next town over. The money for both has to come from somewhere. Does it matter if came from your property tax if it's local police or if your community recieves less state aid on the cherry sheet because the SP needs more money.

A town manger being upset over paying money to an officer is unique ?
I'm sure no MSP station commander has ever gotten upset because he spent OT covering a shift or a patrol ran short because SERT or STOP troopers were on a call out or training. I'm sure no trooper has been forced OT because of call outs by special units. Come on, it's the same everywhere.

Let's put ego's aside..on both sides. We should be spending less time arguing with each other and more time working together. I know if I'm looking for help, I don't care who's coming as long as it's a cruiser. Any PO worth anything would agree.

Let's work on more important things than worrying about whose getting called out.

Work together, we all win
 

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Please..It's time everyone grows up a little on both sides. No one is going to take anyone's job or is looking to anything like that. Just not going to happen. We keep arguing over things like this, we got a much better chance of losing details and the Quinn Bill than any personnel.

I can understand why any SPAM member would be looking out for their members, just as any local would do the same, but let's face it, no MSP personnel are losing money over any LEC's. There is more than enough work to go around for everyone. Usually more.

For all of you complaining about tax dollars, shouldn't it be about providing the most efficient services for the public. Some of you must agree that having a SERT team member respond from Sturbridge to the Cape for a activation can not be as efficient as calling an officer from the next town over. The money for both has to come from somewhere. Does it matter if came from your property tax if it's local police or if your community recieves less state aid on the cherry sheet because the SP needs more money.

A town manger being upset over paying money to an officer is unique ?
I'm sure no MSP station commander has ever gotten upset because he spent OT covering a shift or a patrol ran short because SERT or STOP troopers were on a call out or training. I'm sure no trooper has been forced OT because of call outs by special units. Come on, it's the same everywhere.

Let's put ego's aside..on both sides. We should be spending less time arguing with each other and more time working together. I know if I'm looking for help, I don't care who's coming as long as it's a cruiser. Any PO worth anything would agree.

Let's work on more important things than worrying about whose getting called out.

Work together, we all win
:dito:

Thats My point. I did not mean that post to turn into an Us "local" Them State issue. I just want everyone to see that there IS NO AGENCY that can handle all incidents by them selves. Even the largest police department in the world uses mutual aid, NYPD.
We all need to work together. I think police both local and state could learn a lot from the hose jockeys. They have plans / teams with multiple agencies that all work together, big and small. Before I became a cop I was a fire fighter for over ten years and while department have their differences they still work well compared to the way police departments work.

When I call for back up I don't care what the patch the person is wearing. We are all on the same team and lets not forget it.

Stay Safe
 

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VOR,
I have to ask, are you a police officer? because you seem to be nieve. Here a situation for you. You are a police chief. You do not allow your officers to respond mutual aid. The shit hit the fan in your town. You have x number of officers on duty and its is not enough. You call the state police. There are 3 trooper on duty in your area. One is working the desk. One is tied up at an accident the other one is 30 minutes away. You then call the surrounding town all who could have officers on scene in as little as a few minutes but they say thanks but no thanks we can't respond because you won't help us when we need help. People die or are injured because there were not enough offers to help.

It is called mutual aid because today I respond and help you tomorrow you respond and help me. It is about servicing our customers. They don't care what our patch says as long as when they dial 911 some one shows up.

I guess my department should say no to mutual aid when the state police calls. We have state property in my jurisdiction. The MSP answers the calls at this property. Well what actually happens is we answer the calls for them because they say they don't have anyone available. mabe we should bill them every time this happens.
Troopers don't take that as a dig. Just trying to make a point.
 

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I can't believe the hostility that is going back and forth regarding this topic. The truth behind the original story of the Lowell City Manager being ticked off at the LPD Chief goes deeper than this one article gets into. It is a well known fact that the City manager and the Chief do not see eye to eye and are constantly looking for ways to stir things up within the city and the city council looking for people to take sides.

The other part of this is that a police department was asked to assist another department and they responded. Who cares if its not the MSP. If I remember correctly, the MSP was spread pretty thin that week as well... woudn't you want as much help as possible to ensure everyone's safety? As far as UMass Lowell, we had a very small crowd compared to other schools and it was very well staffed by both us and the LPD with very few arrests on the major nights.
 

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This is getting old. ](*,) You do not know what you are talking about.
The incident you refer to might happen were you work but I don't think it would happen at my department because like me the members of my department do not drive like a bunch of retarded, on call, ding dings on there first call.
 

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Here we go again. "All hail the State Police". Kinda makes me laugh. I was in Boston during the World Series an I can tell you from personal experience, Boston couldn't handle it on their own. Even with the MSP assistance, there would not have been enough police there. They needed all the help they could get. NEMLEC, MetroLEC, DOC and all other departments that assisted those nights were needed and appreciated by all working. I wish some of the troopers on this board would get off their high and mighty attitudes. They are no better than any local cop. The MSP cannot handle all incidents by themselves. Get over yourselves!

Just to clarify something, while the NEMLEC and MetroLEC officers were working the crowds, there was a pretty line of state police bikes with troopers standing next to them. Good thing they were there. Wouldn't want to get a scratch on the bike or scuff on the boot.
 

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Come on now. let's all play nice. On the mutual aid issue, I request mutual aid from surrounding communities for backup all the time and so do they. We have mutual aid agreements and constantly assist each other. Any serious incident, such as a barracaded suspect, we call the STOP team. Listen, they're ready for this shit, they train all the time, it's a very very very hard team to get on and they are free and no liability falls on the town. Listen, I don't deal with barricaded armed assholes on a daily basis and have no problem calling them. I also don't have a problem with NEMLEC SRT guys as they are also very well trained and it is very hard to get on the SWAT team. Both are professional teams, but the MSP mobilizes faster. We used the MSP in various incidents in our town and not once have they tried to take control, as a matter of fact they involve us in everything they do and are respectful. There are a few guys on the SP, just like they are present on every other department, that are just a*holes and you cannot get along with them. We only had one of those and my supervisor and his supervisor asked him to leave. That was that.
 

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Well said MPDCAM. They seem to forget that they put on their breeches one leg at a time like the rest of us commoners. You guys have just got to get over yourselves. Does the barracks have a requirement that there must be 3 full length mirrors in every room? What I'd like to know is how many SP's are members of MENSA or does the Colonel forbid this practice? We all know they can't be members of NEMLEC or NORSTAR or METROSTAR. How many other acronyms can't they be members of?

Again, I see the SpellCheck Nazis are at it again. We are cops here, not English teachers.

I suppose the SP could have stripped the state and piled into Boston that night to help out in crowd control but what if something else happened that night elsewhere in the state? The 'LEC's would have had to respond instead.

If the Boston Commissioner wanted them in her town, it's called Mutual Aid, something that has been around alot longer than the vaunted SP that was started back in 1921. If you will recall, in the Boston Police strike of 1919, the Commissioner called out the Metropolitan Police (a Police Department since 1892) and the State Guard along with surrounding towns like Brookline & Milton which refused to enter the city.
 

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Not taking sides here but some important questions were raised and NOBODY provided any answers. So, I'd like to see some answers if anyone knows for sure?

- Were the out-of-towners paid as a "detail" by Boston PD? Or were they paid for by their "home PD"?

- Did Boston indemnify them (and their "home PDs") if anything happened to any of the out-of-town officers?

We all normally think of "mutual aid" as a call for help WHEN something happens, rather than a "planned event" where hundreds/thousands of "out-of-towners" are brought in in advance of a major problem (to prevent the problem in this case). Especially when the call-out is for 4-7 nights/games.

Exactly how did this work?
 
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