Massachusetts Cop Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 83 Posts

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
4,343 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It looks like SPAM, the MSP union has sent out letters to all local town managers, stating that LECs are a waste of money and towns will be held liable if something happens. They state that they offer all the services for free and they don't want duplicitous services. Whatever, my department is not in any LEC, however I think this was a very bad move on SPAMs part, as the local PDs are getting quite pissed with this nonsense. These letters went out this week and I am sure MASSCOP,IBPO,TEAMSTERS and other agencies Associations will not stand for this nonsense. Also, seriously, does SPAM actually think the town managers listen to the State Police or their Local Police Chiefs that they deal with on a daily basis. The state police services are not free, we pay for them, like taxpayers pay for 2300 MSP cruisers. In the long run, I think LECs are going to divert alot of the MSP funding from taxpayers to the local communities that provide these services and the taxpayers pay the same thing. :evil: :DP:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
I agree. Maybe some of the money that is being used to buy 2300 cruisers should go to the local cities and towns so they can buy a few. How about taking some of the troopers out of the specialized units and put more back on the highway. It's funny how they preach that they provide these services and that the cities and towns are wasting money, when there are only 2 or 3 troopers on at any one time out of a barracks. Try getting a trooper to respond to an accident on one of "their roads". They want to have it all but can't take care of what they have. Maybe SPAM would be better off spending their time pushing to get more troopers to do what they are supposed to be doing.

Anyone who thinks that the LECs are going away are just kidding themselves. Regionalizatoin is the future. Massachusetts is not the only place that has these units. They are appearing all over the country.

My favorite example is in Boston during the world series. Does anyone really think that the MSP could have handled this as the lone assisting agency to boston? Don't think so...

Don't get me wrong, I have friends that are troopers and respect what they do. The issue here is that SPAM obviously does not respect what the municipals do. There is the real problem...
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Regardless of how I feel about regional response units SPAM did nothing more than attempt to protect the interests of their members. That is what unions and associations are supposed to do.

When you have a majority of your association members upset about something you are expected to take some action where you represent them.
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
KozmoKramer";p="52837 said:
For the Uninitiated; LEC's are????
regional response units aka Law Enforcement Councils
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
Also, seriously, does SPAM actually think the town managers listen to the State Police or their Local Police Chiefs that they deal with on a daily basis.
Anyone who thinks that the LECs are going away are just kidding themselves.
Cox mulling pullout from police group
Points to liability issue for Lowell
By MICHAEL LAFLEUR
Sun Staff

Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - LOWELL More than two months later, reverberations from Police Superintendent Edward Davis' decision to send Lowell police officers to Boston to help with World Series security are still being felt at the City Council.

Last night, City Manager John Cox told the council's public safety subcommittee that he is mulling whether to pull out of the regional law-enforcement network whose call for help prompted the Fenway Park deployment.

His administration's internal discussions are being prompted by a request that Lowell sign an updated cooperative agreement with the North Eastern Massachusetts Law Enforcement Council, which encompasses 42 police departments north and west of Boston from Medford and Somerville to Pepperell and Peabody. The city last signed a NEMLEC agreement in 1991, Cox said.

"I'm not sure that NEMLEC is really needed anymore," he said yesterday.
:?:

...Yesterday, Cox said he would like the subcommittee to hear a presentation from the state police on their services.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Lowell's Town Manager doesn't like Davis , so he is doing anything to break his chops!

As far as what you said Gil, I agree to a point with what you said, but the MSP need to be able to handle what they have before they complain about being bypassed for other units.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
The MSP do a good job with what they have been given. However they can't be all things to all people. They cannot cover their own roads because they are a desk and two most of the time. When you have only roughly 35 STOP team members you cannot expect to cover the whole state for SWAT operations. The purpose of the LEC's is regionalization and pooling resources. After all the Homeland Security Grants are focused on regionalization and interoperability between agencies. The PD I work for is part of a LEC. My department is not relying on them for day to day operations, it is for the occasional large scale event.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
How exactly is the MSP or LEC dispatched? Do they carry a pager like a firefighter? Or do they get a phone call?
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
I don't know the protocol for a department to contact the LEC but the LEC guys on our department (who are a part of Metrostar or Metrolec, I'm not sure what the hell the name is) have text pages issued to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
j809";p="52824 said:
<snip>
Also, seriously, does SPAM actually think the town managers listen to the State Police or their Local Police Chiefs that they deal with on a daily basis.
<snip>
As I stated in the Strong Chief vs. Weak Chief thread. Weak chiefs are TOLD how to run their department by their boss. So, yes those bosses are more likely to take the letter from SPAM seriously and TELL their chief what will be!

I'm not in the PD any more, I know that our PD is part of a LEC (I witnessed a call-out as a bunch of cruisers and POVs ripped thru town), but I don't know enough about them to take a position "for" or "against" them.

I do know that there still is a fair amount of animosity between MSP and municipal PDs in the Eastern part of the State. And that is too bad, regardless of any other issues.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
4,343 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
And as Gil said, the other aspect is preservation of jobs.
Please, nobody from MSP is going to lose their job. They are going back to patrol work where they should be. There will still be CPAC units,K9s,Air Wing,Accident Recon,Commercial Enforcement. Out of 2300 troopers, how many are on patrol duty, probably half. The argument can fall back on the MSP as well.We have to cover accidents on your interstates while troopers play SWAT because the barracks are so shorthanded.

How many positions have the LEC's CREATED, and is it worth the positions that will be LOST? It's not just the MSP boys and girls - you think your local department will fill vacancies when they can fall back on a regional group to take up the slack?
Departments do not use LECs to curtail hiring of new officers. Departments use mutual aid for regular backup calls. LECs are used for special calls.

The letter you refer to (have you actually read it?) will most likely be posted somewhere soon. Why don't you read it and then bring up any specific points that you feel may be erroneous
.
Yes I have read it and if it did anything, it created more animosity. It was a stupid letter, trying to instill fear in the town offices by crying liability and other stupid issues. We all laughed at it as i am sure other departments have too. Like I said, we aren't part of a LEC yet, however that could change in the near future. But SPAM has showed that us LOCALS have to stick together and out of support for them, most local departments that used the MSP quite a bit will stop calling and use LECs. That is what SPAM created.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
The town in which I serve as an auxillary PO is a member of the LEC's. I think that pooling you resources for a fast and immediate response in a dire situation is absoloutely called for, however when your responding cruiser from another community is some 30 miles away then I think you have lost the effectiveness. I hear the guys in my dept. say that the MSP can't respond fast enough, but really that argument doesn't hold its weight when a guy from another community responds in his own car some 30 miles away. Its actually a danger to himself and others. Moreover, why not just let the MSP eat the liability if a mistake is made rather than 30 some odd communities. Again, I'm all for mutual aid, but it is getting a bit ridiculous. I mean I am still just a wannabe, but how am I ever going to get hired if a chief can just rely on the officers from other communities. Why not just grab an extra patrol from another town and not hire OT? I think the bigger picture here is that we are being sucked in by the Governor's approach to save money, cut jobs and share officers. Just ask the guys in Fall River and Springfield. A LEC today, but unemployed tomorrow. Hey, that's just my two cents from a guy who got an 87 on the MSP exam, but I don't see Boston PD joining the LEC's. Maybe it's the liability issue or they just have enough crime in their own city to worry about. I hope I don't offend any of the LEC officers, but I truly believe that sharing officers costs jobs.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
j809";p="52921 said:
Please, nobody from MSP is going to lose their job. They are going back to patrol work where they should be
So now you decide where an Agency "should be?"

Maybe these local guys should be right where THEY belong, in the City they work in, not four towns over playing SWAT.

We have to cover accidents on your interstates while troopers play SWAT because the barracks are so shorthanded.
And the MSP covers towns when the locals call up and say "we're on a callout, so we need your help"

It happens all the time.

And why do you think the MSP is so short? Because of a lack of funding. The LECs are eating up grant money and for some "strange reason" the MSP hasn't gotten the grant money they are ENTITLED to, MILLIONS of dollars. That's going to change, and the Fed money will dry up for the LEC's. It's already starting to.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Lets just face it the super troopers are getting pissed because the locals are eating into their OT . It is all about the big clock and nothing else. Why else would the Union be sending this propaganda?
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
I just have a few questions for some of the pro-LEC people.

What is the average response time of a LEC team v. MSP specialized unit?

In some towns that only have 2 or 3 officers patrolling a LEC town and there is a call out does the town call MSP in for mutual aid to cover the town? If so wouldn't the town be better served if the local officers who are more familiar with the community than the state police?

What is the history of LEC's? I know they have been around for a while but it seems like they're only active now that there is Homeland Security $$ available.

If MSP has been providing specialized response teams for many years and they are highly regarded throughout the country won't LEC's be playing "catch up" in terms of training, protocols, equipment.....?

Finally, if it ain't broke why are you trying to fix it? I've alway heard MSP teams do an outstanding job are there any cases that can be cited where they have dropped the ball, or instances where it can be proven that a LEC would have handled the situation more effectively or efficiently?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
topcop14";p="53048 said:
Lets just face it the super troopers are getting pissed because the locals are eating into their OT . It is all about the big clock and nothing else. Why else would the Union be sending this propaganda?
First of all, a lot of these services are provided by Tac Ops and do not garner OT for the Troopers involved.

Are the LEC guys there for free? Or do the get OT as well?

Face it. The LEC's are a scam that were created to take advantage of the "free" federal money that was floating around after 9-11. Just like the "Copsfast" grants, the money will just disappear and none of these towns want to be paying for these ridiculously wasteful and expensive groups when it is coming out of their pockets.

You were hired by a Town to be a Police Officer. You should do your police work in that town.
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
4,343 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Face it. The LEC's are a scam that were created to take advantage of the "free" federal money that was floating around after 9-11. Just like the "Copsfast" grants, the money will just disappear and none of these towns want to be paying for these ridiculously wasteful and expensive groups when it is coming out of their pockets.
Ok, let's see, NEMLEC was formed in 1963, so you are quite wrong and all the NORSTAR and METROSTAR were prior to 9/11. Also take the 35 communities with approximately average of 40 officers per department that is a total of 1400 officers and about 100 are members of NEMLEC which encompass more than just SWAT, lots of other things that were once provided by MSP. Towns have the right to chose who they want to respond to their communities and all they are saying is "thanks bu no thanks" to the MSP services. These units are in place and have been in place before Homeland Security and will still be in place regardless of the Nazi SPAM propaganda that is being spread.

You were hired by a Town to be a Police Officer. You should do your police work in that town.
And you were hired for Highway Patrol, so stick to the damn highways and stop calling the locals to cover your accidents and DMVs while you play SWAT and CSI.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
j809";p="53054 said:
Ok, let's see, NEMLEC was formed in 1963, so you are quite wrong and all the NORSTAR and METROSTAR were prior to 9/11. Also take the 35 communities with approximately average of 40 officers per department that is a total of 1400 officers and about 100 are members of NEMLEC which encompass more than just SWAT, lots of other things that were once provided by MSP. Towns have the right to chose who they want to respond to their communities and all they are saying is "thanks bu no thanks" to the MSP services. These units are in place and have been in place before Homeland Security and will still be in place regardless of the Nazi SPAM propaganda that is being spread.
I could care less when these groups were formed on paper. The fact of the matter is that they have expanded rapidly since 9-11 and you know it. To try to claim that they have been around in their present form since the 1960's is just flat lying.

Towns don't necessarily "want" these groups, they have just been basically free and now that the costs are being questioned, they are leaving the LECs.

Local police are not Statewide. They are local police and thus should stay in their own towns. If you want to have statewide authority, join the State Police. Otherwise, do what you do..

And you were hired for Highway Patrol, so stick to the damn highways and stop calling the locals to cover your accidents and DMVs while you play SWAT and CSI.
No, I don't do Highway Patrol. The State Police have been in the Statewide K-9, Homicide, Narcotics, Crime Scene and other services game for decades, not like the new guy LECS. And maybe the locals should stop calling MSP to clean up THEIR messes while they are playing Trooper.

It's funny how you seem so glib about trying to take other people's jobs; I would bet that if the Sheriff called up the Mayor of whatever town you work in and volunteered to Patrol for free so he could save money on Police services, you and your Union would be screaming bloody murder. Yet you see no problem with these fake statewide Units running around playing Trooper.
 
1 - 20 of 83 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top