Massachusetts Cop Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 84 Posts

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any thoughts or concerns on the new "MASSACHUSETTS TRAFFIC STOP DATA COLLECTION FORM" that we are supposed to start filling out starting July 1st?

My personal opinion is that this is a bunch of bs that some liberal grant seeking university came up with. We are supposed to record these stats but we do not report them to anybody?

In the training manual put out by the MSP it states that we have to fill one of these out every time we seize a motor vehicle. But should we happen to come across a DMV we also have to fill it out?? I am not seizing a friggen DMV!

If the RMV does not collect race data when they issue a license why the hell should I have to guess the operators race?

Do the cities and towns as well as the state realize how much money they are going to loose when the blinders go on because of this additional bullshit paperwork.

How long is this supposed to be in effect for?

I hope the fleet mechanics can keep up with the repairs on the cruisers because I don't see CMVI's paying for new vehicles in the future. Stats are going to plummet as well as the cash flow to the cities and towns.

Good job to who ever the moron or morons are that implemented this bs!

A copy of the form
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/eops/sdc_form_3_22.pdf
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
Cambridge started maintaining these "stats" about 4 years ago. They still doing it? If not, I wonder why?
 

·
Retired Fed, Active Special
Joined
·
8,693 Posts
I wonder who determines "participating departments"? And I wonder if the EOPS/RMV will get their undies in a wad about certain departments they felt didn't have the "right" to be issued Citation Books? If they don't want to issue these stupid forms, it's alright by me.
:roll:
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
mpd61";p="67615 said:
I wonder who determines "participating departments"?
If I'm not mistaken it was determined by using the NU study on racial profiling. Any dept. that was stopping a greater % of minorities than were represented in the community was ordered by EOPS to use these new forms.
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Irishpride";p="67616 said:
mpd61";p="67615 said:
I wonder who determines "participating departments"?
If I'm not mistaken it was determined by using the NU study on racial profiling. Any dept. that was stopping a greater % of minorities than were represented in the community was ordered by EOPS to use these new forms.
Taken from here...

The law empowered the Secretary of Public Safety to determine whether the data for a particular police department suggested an appearance of racial profiling and if so to order the department to collect data on all traffic stops. Based on the analysis performed by Northeastern, the Secretary concluded that for 249 police agencies (68%) there was statistically significant evidence to suggest racial disparities. The Secretary emphasized that the existence of racial disparities does not mean that a department has engaged in racial profiling, but rather that more data is needed to explore the reasons for the disparity.

In accordance with his statutory mandate, the 249 police agencies were notified that they were required to collect racial profiling data on all traffic stops. Of the 249 agencies mandated to collect more data, 130 filed appeals with the Office of the Attorney General, as permitted under the statute. In late October 2004, the Attorney General issued a decision upholding the Secretary in 128 out of the 130 appeals.

Chapter 228 of the Acts of 2000 requires that police departments in Massachusetts that have been shown to have racial and gender disparities in citations issued and/or searches initiated must collect additional data for all traffic stops for a period of one year ( <--answered one of my own questions), including the reason for the stop.

Following a study conducted by Northeastern University's College of Criminal Justice and pursuant to his statutory authority, the Secretary of Public Safety determined that a total of 247 of the 351 police departments in the Commonwealth must collect data for all traffic stops, including stops that do not result in a written warning, citation, or arrest.

(Including suspicious vehicles, disabled vehicles, parkers etc... parking tickets [if vehicle occupied like fire lane violation]. If you deal with anyone that is in a vehicle no matter what the call is you MUST fill out this bullshit form! The only exception is if you are flagged down by the motorist.) :evil:

In order to develop a model data collection process, the Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety (EOPS) partnered with police chiefs, academic professionals, and community organizations and advocates to create a data collection instrument. This form can be used to collect the required data during each traffic stop, as well as collect additional data that may be helpful in understanding the issue of racial profiling.
 

·
MassCops Member
Joined
·
535 Posts
Get ready because after the initial study they are going to need a second study to compare to the first study. In Rhode Island, we have been doing this study for 2.5 yrs. Upon finding disparity in the first study, we are conducting a second study, which I am sure will lead to a third study.
The best part is they made departments in the second study, open to civil liablity if they fail to collect the data. Originally, they want to hold officers civily liable in second study.
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Retired Fed, Active Special
Joined
·
8,693 Posts
Thanks Gil,

EOPS, Golly gee-whiz..........I never would have guessed!
:lol:
 

·
MassCops Member
Joined
·
333 Posts
Bullshit is exactly right Gil!
The number of cites are going to go down.........dramatically.
Then the towns and state can cry poor mouth when they don't have the Ch. 90 funds available anymore......because we may as well havce to right a report for every CMVI issued.
What a state!
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sarge31";p="67632 said:
Bullshit is exactly right Gil!
The number of cites are going to go down.........dramatically.
Then the towns and state can cry poor mouth when they don't have the Ch. 90 funds available anymore......because we may as well havce to right a report for every CMVI issued.
What a state!
I have not seen the actual form (only a photocopy) but I can imagine it's just like a cite with a narrative section on the back that will need to be filled out. I am not sure of that but it would not surprise me in the least.

I would probably not be so pissed off about the whole thing if it was required solely for motor vehicle stops. This garbage about filling one out for DMV's etc... is just going to make some of us put the blinders on.

I can just imagine the calls to the station.

DMV Caller: Hi I am broke down on Rt 1 with my flashers on and hood up and I have seen 6 police cars drive by me without stopping.

Dispatcher: Your best bet ma'am is to flag the officer down.

DMV Caller: Can't you just dispatch an officer?

Dispatcher: Honestly ma'am you will have better results if you flag them down and if they do stop, immediately advise them that you are seeking help and or information.

The next step is to have the Racial and Gender Profiling Hotline plastered on the back of your cruiser.

"Did I Stop You? Call toll free 1-866-6 RACIAL"

I probably should not be giving NU any ideas :roll:
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
GD";p="67619 said:
Get ready because after the initial study they are going to need a second study to compare to the first study. In Rhode Island, we have been doing this study for 2.5 yrs. Upon finding disparity in the first study, we are conducting a second study, which I am sure will lead to a third study.
The best part is they made departments in the second study, open to civil liablity if they fail to collect the data. Originally, they want to hold officers civily liable in second study.
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
GD is Rhode Island's study limited to motor vehicle stops or any interaction with a person occupying a vehicle?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
We were actually one of the few departments that "passed" the first time around. I have a feeling we are still going to be forced to participate in this new mess.

I did find some possible flaws in the original study:

Age ignored: Young people are cited more than older people. The data did not take into account the age of people cited. Young people tend to make up a larger portion of several minority groups and young people statistically commit more violations and get into more crashes than older drivers.

Driver demographics ignored: The data was based on who lives in and around particular communities and not who actually commutes through those communities.

Economic factors ignored: Nobody considered that minorities tend to not have as much income and that as a result they have more problems with maintaining equipment on older cars, registering cars and keeping up with outrageous insurance rates.

Police errors ignored: Officers weren't trained in the K series citations and there are a number of errors that have been made filling them out.

High crime rates and police actions based on those rates ignored: Enforcement activity directed toward poor minority communities will generate a higher level of citations. Active officers also tend to gravitate toward working in high crime areas.


I do think there are a small handful of bad apples out there who either consciously or subconsciously make decisions to stop, search and cite based on race. That small minority needs to be addressed. I don't think these new forms are going to do anything to help the real problem. The NU study should have been used to point to individual officers and then a follow-up should have been done to see if there were valid reasons for any disparities.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
Anybody read the book "Are Cops Racist?"

The kicker is, a study was done (I believe on the NJ Turnpike). The study used radar guns coupled with a camera that photgraphed the operator's face. An independant group identified the operator's race (independant of the speed.)

The result of the study was that young minority males commit more "egregious" (90+mph) violations than whites. The study was basically suppressed because it would be tagged as racist due to the results.

Bottom line: Even if you are right, the Politically Correct Police will make you wrong.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-7624036-4084018?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
2,297 Posts
Heather Mac Donald: The studies that purport to prove the existence of racial profiling are junk science that wouldn't earn their authors an F in a freshman statistics course. Their biggest flaw? They ignore the most important factor in policing: crime. You can't determine whether the police are stopping or arresting "too many" members of any given racial group unless you take into account the crime rates among different groups. No profiling study to date does that.

An example: In New York, blacks are 50% of all persons stopped and frisked by the police, but only 25% of the population. Police critics seize on this disparity between population percentages and enforcement activity to charge the police with racism. And such a disparity would indeed be cause for concern if crime rates were evenly distributed across the population. They are not, however - not in New York, not anywhere. In New York, in 1998, 62% of victims of violent assault identified their assailants as black, meaning that blacks were 13 times more likely to commit a violent assault as whites. Remember: these are victims identifying the criminal, not the allegedly "racist" police. It turns out that blacks in New York are actually being under stopped, compared to their rates of violent crime.

Such disparities are typical: In Arlington County, Va., blacks are 10% of the population, but commit 70% of all robberies. In Los Angeles, blacks committed 41% of all robberies in 2001, according to victims' descriptions, though they constitute only 11% of the city's population. Robbery victims in Los Angeles named whites, who make up 30% of the population, 4% of the time.

Police go where crime is highest, and in cities, that imperative takes them to poor minority neighborhoods, where most of the people stopped will, almost by definition, be black or Hispanic. And officers go to those neighborhoods not out of racism, but to protect the many law-abiding residents who live there from thugs.

The next time someone tells you that the police are stopping "too many" members of any given racial group, ask: "too many" compared to what? Compared to their population ratio or compared to their crime rate? If we want the police to be effective, they must direct their enforcement activity based on crime, not on skin color.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/mac_donald.php
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
I see you guys there in Mass are getting stuck doing this racial data stuff. We've been doing it out here in L.A. for about four years now so we can relate.

Our reactions were the same as yours when we were first told that we had to do this stuff. Guys were saying that they weren't gonna stop people and weren't gonna arrest people, just like you guys are saying. That all lasted about a week. Everyone then realized that it wasn't all that bad and went back to doing the job they were all hired to do. It really is no big deal. I can say that with a bit of authority 'cause if anyone has been under the microscope, it's the LAPD, esecially since Rafael Perez!
 

·
Founder of MassCops
Joined
·
6,401 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
LA Copper";p="67651 said:
I see you guys there in Mass are getting stuck doing this racial data stuff. We've been doing it out here in L.A. for about four years now so we can relate.

Our reactions were the same as yours when we were first told that we had to do this stuff. Guys were saying that they weren't gonna stop people and weren't gonna arrest people, just like you guys are saying. That all lasted about a week. Everyone then realized that it wasn't all that bad and went back to doing the job they were all hired to do. It really is no big deal. I can say that with a bit of authority 'cause if anyone has been under the microscope, it's the LAPD, esecially since Rafael Perez!
LA Copper, same question to you as GD. Do you have to fill this out for any interaction with a person occupying a vehicle or are you only required to fill it out if it is a motor vehicle stop?

I just think that it's ridiculous to respond to a three car MVA and have to fill out three of these damn forms. If they are so concerned about pretext stops then thats when you should have to fill it out, not for friggen DMV's, parkers etc...
 

·
Subscribing Member
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
Gil,
We have to fill these things out only on certain criteria. Anytime we stop a vehicle or a pedestrian, we fill it out. It only applies if we stop them, not if they flag us down. We also fill them out on certain radio calls. Basically, anytime we detain someone, we have to fill one out.

It's a pain in the neck at first but like anything else, you get used to it. And like I said earlier, after a while, you'll realize it's no big deal. We're all just typical cops... Resistant to change and having higher ups telling us what to do when we don't think it's necessary. It's the same coast to coast!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
bbelichick";p="67646 said:
Heather Mac Donald: The studies that purport to prove the existence of racial profiling are junk science that wouldn't earn their authors an F in a freshman statistics course. Their biggest flaw? They ignore the most important factor in policing: crime. You can't determine whether the police are stopping or arresting "too many" members of any given racial group unless you take into account the crime rates among different groups. No profiling study to date does that.

An example: In New York, blacks are 50% of all persons stopped and frisked by the police, but only 25% of the population. Police critics seize on this disparity between population percentages and enforcement activity to charge the police with racism. And such a disparity would indeed be cause for concern if crime rates were evenly distributed across the population. They are not, however - not in New York, not anywhere. In New York, in 1998, 62% of victims of violent assault identified their assailants as black, meaning that blacks were 13 times more likely to commit a violent assault as whites. Remember: these are victims identifying the criminal, not the allegedly "racist" police. It turns out that blacks in New York are actually being under stopped, compared to their rates of violent crime.

Such disparities are typical: In Arlington County, Va., blacks are 10% of the population, but commit 70% of all robberies. In Los Angeles, blacks committed 41% of all robberies in 2001, according to victims' descriptions, though they constitute only 11% of the city's population. Robbery victims in Los Angeles named whites, who make up 30% of the population, 4% of the time.

Police go where crime is highest, and in cities, that imperative takes them to poor minority neighborhoods, where most of the people stopped will, almost by definition, be black or Hispanic. And officers go to those neighborhoods not out of racism, but to protect the many law-abiding residents who live there from thugs.

The next time someone tells you that the police are stopping "too many" members of any given racial group, ask: "too many" compared to what? Compared to their population ratio or compared to their crime rate? If we want the police to be effective, they must direct their enforcement activity based on crime, not on skin color.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/mac_donald.php
Good points. While the rightwingnews could be accused of racism by focusing on minority offenders the fact is that minorities also suffer the highest rates of victimization by those same offenders. It's a fact that crime mostly stays within racial groups. I think police managers could do a better job of pointing this out to critics.

I am wondering if police will start using TSA type tactics to offset the stats: Has anyone else noticed a large proportion of elderly white females being stopped at the airport check-ins? :?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
This is really nuts........what happens if you do a click it or ticket......double your paperwork......what will this lovely state come up with next.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
My department was one of the pilot towns. It takes about 30 seconds to fill the form out. I took the attitude that in most cases while filling out the form the person did something for me to have contact with them, so I filled out the form while they waited. Citations/MV stops are going to drop dramatically. The law that was enacted is for departments to collect data for a 1 year period of time. However, whose to say that it is not going to continue. We shall see what happens.
 
G

·
What if, by coincidence, only white males from affluent communites were cited or stopped for the next year. Would this "study" be quickly discontinued?
 
1 - 20 of 84 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top