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I've pulled too many kids from the wreckage of automobiles to remain quiet while some half-witted college leaders, along with their liquor business buddies press for the lowering of the drinking age from 21 to 18. We've made that mistake before and have never recovered.

Too quickly society has forgotten that bringing the legal age down to 18 gives sanction to the consumption of alcoholic beverage by many kids who are still in the high school social circles. Thus the 16 and 17 year old gains even more exposure and easier access. A 16 or 17 year old would have an easier time passing for 18 than the current 21.

These are formative years for kids who are not only learning how to drive but are also learning how to make sound decisions that will affect the rest of their lives. Clouding their thinking with alcohol or any other chemical certainly is not in order.

I have a feeling that certain colleges may be looking to cash in on some of the business they could have by opening pubs on campus. I recall it's been proposed before and will certainly come up again if we allow this change.

I spoke out against this stupid move before it originally passed and was fortunate enough to see it reversed as a result of the many traffic deaths, assaults, pregnancies and other fruits of this "forward thinking."

I'm amazed some people have such short memories.
 

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I agree with the exception of those young men and women who serve in the military. I have issue with asking someone to risk all that they hold dear, to go into harm’s way and yet in the same breath tell them they are not old enough to enjoy a libation. If they are mature enough to put themselves at risk, then in my book they are mature enough to indulge on occasion.
 

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Used to be that if you were military you could drink on post...bring that back...active military or honorable discharged should be able to ...I was listening to that liberal dink Margorie Egan on the radio today...anyone else think shes wasting air we could be breathing??...lol
 

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Not to hijack a thread but she never has any idea about what she rants about...typical liberal ...and Ive been so close to calling with all the incorrect info she spouts off about details but I stop myself..not to mention Im 1000% certain no screener would ever let me through..lol
 
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Used to be that if you were military you could drink on post...bring that back...active military or honorable discharged should be able to ...I was listening to that liberal dink Margorie Egan on the radio today...anyone else think shes wasting air we could be breathing??...lol
I remember when I went to MP School at Fort McClellan you had to be 21 to buy booze on post, but you could drink it at 18. Being I had just turned 21 when I went there, I was very popular whenever we went to the Pistol Palace.

Not to hijack a thread but she never has any idea about what she rants about...typical liberal ...and Ive been so close to calling with all the incorrect info she spouts off about details but I stop myself..not to mention Im 1000% certain no screener would ever let me through..lol
Tell the screener you want to defend Jim Marzilli and you'll get through no problem.
 

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I remember when we could still buy beer out of the vending machines in the barracks. I definitely think that people in the military should be allowed to drink. You can be active duty at 17, though, so 18 and up with military ID wouldn't really be fair...unless a 17 year old who can fight and die for his country doesn't have the same rights as someone who is 18...
With that being said, I don't think it is fair to create special laws that would exempt military members, even though they are providing such a great service to our country. They certainly can't be 'trusted' with alcohol any more than your average 18 year old. Do we really expect that just because someone is active duty, they are going to drink more responsibly? Also, every time legislation comes up regarding the issue, it is the military leaders themselves that make every effort to block it, but their efforts have nothing to do with keeping military members safe...they have everything to do with public perception and appearance.
I think to exempt someone from a law because of service they perform is a slippery slope...next thing you know, the issue will be, well, what about volunteer firefighters, auxiliary police, peace corps, boy scouts, anyone who can get straight A's in school, etc.
I have a hard time believing that lowering the drinking age will increase drinking. People drank when I was in high school, when I was under 21 in the military, etc. Very few times in my life have I been unable to score some alcohol.
I don't know if it's true or not, but I'd like to think that if a 19 year old kid could buy some beer and drink it in his dorm room, that he might do just that, instead of driving across town to some party, drink way more than he should way faster than he should, and then attempt to drive home. I'd also like to think that if I had an 18 year old daughter who was away at college and wanted to have a few drinks, she could go and buy it herself, instead of hanging out with a bunch of older guys at the local frathouse just to have some alcohol...
My two cents...whichever way this issue goes, there'll be consequences. I know I made some really stupid decisions when I was 18 that I would never make now, but I also know plenty of 30 year olds that can't handle having a few beers and acting responsibly.
 

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I think to exempt someone from a law because of service they perform is a slippery slope...next thing you know, the issue will be, well, what about volunteer firefighters, auxiliary police, peace corps, boy scouts, anyone who can get straight A's in school, etc.
Let's not forget the 18 y.o. Flagman.
 
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I remember when we could still buy beer out of the vending machines in the barracks. I definitely think that people in the military should be allowed to drink. You can be active duty at 17, though, so 18 and up with military ID wouldn't really be fair...unless a 17 year old who can fight and die for his country doesn't have the same rights as someone who is 18...
Even if someone went to the recruiter on their 17th birthday, by the time they took the ASVAB, had their physical, basic training and MOS training, there would only be a few months at most until they turned 18.

With that being said, I don't think it is fair to create special laws that would exempt military members, even though they are providing such a great service to our country. They certainly can't be 'trusted' with alcohol any more than your average 18 year old. Do we really expect that just because someone is active duty, they are going to drink more responsibly?
If someone can be trusted with a loaded machine gun, anti-tank weapons and hand grenades, I think I'll trust their judgment with a 30-pack on post.
 

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You can be at the recruiter when you are 16, and ship to basic a day after your 17th birthday. I had finished basic and my first school at 17, and turned 18 about halfway through my second.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying (and never said) that military people shouldn't be trusted to enjoy themselves an adult beverage or 30. Perhaps I should rephrase...My argument is that we shouldn't expect them to act any more responsibly after drinking a bunch than any other average 18 year old.

Also...not everyone in the military gets trained to handle machine guns, hand grenades, etc.

I just think that arbitrarily deciding who we are going to 'trust' with alcohol based on their age alone is not the right answer. Seems silly to me to think we will trust someone to cast their vote for the president, but we won't trust them with even one can of beer.

To add one more thought...I just noticed that you said 'on post', and I completely agree with that thought...there is no Federal drinking age (The Federal goverment just forced an age on all of the states), so it would be completely within the rights of the military to sell alcohol to military members on base, and I completely agree that they should do this. But I think selling to military members on a military installation is different than the idea that there should be a special exemption to the law allowing military people to drink anywhere. Although, I guess with the 'internal possesion' laws most states have, if you drank on base and then left, you could still end up in hot water.
 
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To add one more thought...I just noticed that you said 'on post', and I completely agree with that thought...there is no Federal drinking age (The Federal goverment just forced an age on all of the states), so it would be completely within the rights of the military to sell alcohol to military members on base, and I completely agree that they should do this. But I think selling to military members on a military installation is different than the idea that there should be a special exemption to the law allowing military people to drink anywhere. Although, I guess with the 'internal possesion' laws most states have, if you drank on base and then left, you could still end up in hot water.
That's my point; you can't allow an 18 year-old to go into a liquor store and buy fifteen 30-packs. He may be responsible as anyone, but the non-military friends he gives the beer to might not be.
 

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I don't disagree with you there...maybe we just need a different age for buying alcohol in a store as opposed to being served in a bar or restaraunt?

To take the argument the other way, I think you could say with some degree of certainty that raising the drinking age to 50 would result in a reduction of DUI related fatalities. Not many people espousing such an idea would be taken seriously, though. Except maybe in Maine...from what I understand, they have re-instituted and rescinded a complete prohibition 4 times since federal prohibition ended.
 

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Police oppose lowering drinking age to 18

By Curt Brown
Standard-Times staff writer
August 20, 2008 6:00 AM

Local police and a community college president are opposed to an effort by about 100 of the nation's best-known universities to lower the drinking age from 21 to 18.
The nearly 100 college presidents, including the heads of Duke, Dartmouth and Ohio State, cite a "culture of dangerous, clandestine binge drinking" and are seeking "an informed and dispassionate debate" on lowering the drinking age.
The movement called the Amethyst Initiative began quietly recruiting presidents more than a year ago to provoke national debate about the issue.
Other prominent schools in the group include Syracuse, Tufts, Colgate, Kenyon and Morehouse.
Dartmouth police are opposed to lowering the drinking age. Dartmouth is a host community for UMass Dartmouth.
"I think it's sufficient at 21," Police Chief Mark Pacheco said.
If it was lowered, he said, he feels it would lead to an increase in alcohol-related incidents, such as driving while under the influence of alcohol involving under-21-year-old drivers.
At 21, he said, a person has "the maturity to handle the responsibility" of drinking responsibly.
"Twenty-one is an age when you take responsibility for your life," he said. "At 18 you have just got out of high school, you have just got your license, and then you mix alcohol into the mix."
He said he feels that the nearly 100 presidents are trying to mask the serious problem of underage drinking on college campuses by lowering the drinking age. He said that will create other problems.
He said 18-year-olds - who he said are generally "inexperienced drivers" - will be returning to their dorm rooms after legally drinking at taverns, restaurants and sports bars.
John J. Sbrega, president of Bristol Community College in Fall River, has a similar view.
"I'm opposed to it unless someone can change my mind," Mr. Sbrega said.
He added that he is worried about all 18-years-olds and not just those who are attending residential colleges.
"It's a societal concern. I would want to raise that perspective in any discussion," he said.
BCC has a satellite campus in downtown New Bedford.
Fairhaven Police Chief Gary F. Souza said he also opposes an effort to lower the drinking age to 18.
He said he would be concerned about 18-year-olds socializing with older people in bars and taverns.
"They may not have the maturity level," he said.
Bryan Baldwin, a spokesman at Bridgewater State College, said a policy of this magnitude should be studied carefully.
"A change of this magnitude would affect the vast majority of the student population and conceivably change the college environment in a fundamental way," he said. "Needless to say, it's not something to be entered into lightly."
Libby DeVecchi, a spokeswoman for UMass President Jack M. Wilson, said he is reviewing the issue with trustees and chancellors.
"President Wilson agrees that binge drinking is dangerous behavior and supports the Amethyst Initiative's efforts to bring solutions to this problem forward for debate," Ms. DeVecchi said.
Dr. Jean F. MacCormack, chancellor of UMass Dartmouth, could not be reached Tuesday for comment.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080820/NEWS/808200321
 

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With that being said, I don't think it is fair to create special laws that would exempt military members, even though they are providing such a great service to our country.

Honestly why not?
These people show that they are willing to step up to the plate and defend our rights and freedoms that we all cherish..those same rights like freedom of speech that liberals and liberal college kids are quick to toss out the second that they say stupid shit and use that as their defense....as they sit in college...being selfish and doing everything they do for themselves....REWARD THEM ...it's a token offering anyways...like the old saying in the military I heard many times....I may not agree with what you say however I will defend with MY life YOUR right to say it...
There is a huge difference between a college kid getting ratfaced in his dorm with a bunch of other kids...flunking themselves out of school....versus a kid toeing the line and stepping up to defend you, me and our families against enemies foreign and domestic....

Difference I think youre gonna see is that 95% of kids in the military are junior personnel and at least in my experience took taxis everywhere...compared to entitled college students who take their cars to school....back this stuff up with stats which is what people fail to do...look at the flagmen debates....nobody ever shows stats showing where we will save...how pubilc safety will not be affected...they just rail because they dont want them....18-21 year olds are typically more likely to get in crashes to start...going and adding alcohol is a terrible idea because learning how to drink at the same time as learning how to drive is a recipe for disaster......at least in the current system it makes it harder for kids to get alcohol which keeps these crashes down....
Funny thing is Ms. Egan had a girl call in from Holy Cross college speaking about how great the college is about teaching them about alcohol abuse and how to drink responsibly....ask any of the neighborhood residents who continue to have drunken students on their lawns in the middle of the night...tossing beer cans on their lawns...waking up their children....I live further up the street and hate driving by looking at the carnage the day after....I couldnt imagine living in the neighborhood and having nowhere to escape to when they scream and yell all night...I would kill someone!!!...lol
 
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The 18 year old experiment was tried back in the late 70's Teenage alcohol related traffic deaths went way up. Same reasoning was used back then if the kids are old enough to fight in vietnam they are old enough to drink. Great reasoning but it didn't work. How many of you work night club details and see 24-30 yr olds acting like idiots? Military on bases yes outside no. I hate to say it but military people screw up to.
 

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In my humble opinion, this is another issue like firearms,that if it was addressed at home at an early age we would have less problems. Much like guns I was introduced to alcohol early, by that I mean a sip here and there around 13 or 14...I believe this takes away the mystery and need for kids to go searching for the booze as soon as the parents go out. I also think going off to war gives you life experience that an average 17 or 18 yr old will not get hanging around downtown. So 18 , no way..kids are fucked up enough these days...
 

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I think that kids in the military GENERALLY display somewhat more of a mature attitude overall than their equivilants in college that the college kids generally do not show. Add to the fact that they generally suffer more punishment under UCMJ and civilian punishment systems combined versus a civilian/liberal college discipline system I think that would be the only way I would go for it......otherwise if it ain't broke....
 

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I read somewhere last week that something like 83% of kids drink underage (Once upon a time, that was me, too.) By no means do I intend to say, "If everyone does it..." but I do think it's time to look back at the actual purpose, consequences, and reality of the law.

It seems the argument is that traffic incidents would skyrocket. In every aspect of life, there are those who are responsible and those who seem to never consider the potential consequences to their actions. A majority of 18-21 year olds would learn responsible drinking behaviors without being exposed to an overburdened and under efficient justice system. The larger problem is drunk driving, and this is where I see the biggest issues with the law.

Day in and day out, it appears to me that officers run into operators who are "just over" the limit and are arrested for driving under the influence. Many of us treat these drivers (as long as they haven't punched, spit or otherwise fought with us) as people who have made an innocent mistake. These folks are arrested, given a record, bailed out, pay a fine, lose their license, and go on their way. Likewise, folks who are very intoxicated end up treated the same way, although the risk is significantly higher with their driving.

Maybe a paradigm shift is needed where we look at DUI as a crime rather than a simple mistake. If we can deter the crime itself better, wouldn't that make for a safer driving experience?

Instead, we give alcohol some mythical reputation for kids, and encourage poor decision making skills in its use. I can't even begin to tell you how many less than ideal situations I put myself in during college in trying to get access to booze. Even with the proliferation of fake ID's now, which for law enforcement can be a very serious crime! Many of us turned 21, slowed down the binge drinking, slowed down the partying, and by 23, had a cocktail only on special occasions.

There will always be irresponsible folks. I deal with people everyday, as I am sure that all of you do too, bring a 30 rack to work at 6:30am and have a couple pops in the car on their way in. They can be 17 or 57.

Also consider the consequences of underage drinkers going through the system. 83%. Will it stop the underage drinking. I'm here to tell you that the appearance and fine will not in the long term. Heck, I remember kids showing up after a night at a bar when we had to go to court. The judge saw the hand stamps and joked around, laughing about the incident. But it does teach people at a young age that 1.) The cops are the bad guys, and are out to get you, 2.) That the system doesn't really care about drinking, and that the system as a whole does not have much bite and 3.) You don't have to fear law in general, you can get through it. This, of course, only applies to the ones that don't learn 4.) a good, expensive lawyer can get you out of trouble.

I know that my opinion won't be popular around here, and I am not just writing this to stir the pot. I would much rather see the laws reformed to make them more efficient, effective, and worthwhile than to simply add more laws that are only there to overburden police departments and backed up courts.
 

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Day in and day out, it appears to me that officers run into operators who are "just over" the limit and are arrested for driving under the influence. Many of us treat these drivers (as long as they haven't punched, spit or otherwise fought with us) as people who have made an innocent mistake. These folks are arrested, given a record, bailed out, pay a fine, lose their license, and go on their way. Likewise, folks who are very intoxicated end up treated the same way, although the risk is significantly higher with their driving.
You, sir, are completely wrong. While I have arrested countless people for OUI 1, I rarely run into anyone with less than a .15...and most are hovering around a .20. Think of this like shoplifting...if someone shoplifts something once...what's the likelihood they're going to get caught? What about twice? Three times? The more you steal, the more likely you'll eventually be caught. No, most people arrested for OUI 1 are repeat offenders who's luck has just run out.

You are right that the paradigm in this state is that drunk drivers are just a nuisance, rather than a criminal. The OUI laws in this state are purposely written with enormous gaping holes so no matter how often police arrest drunk driver's, probably half the time they walk. Much of this comes from the extreme conflict of interest of lawmakers who also are defense attorney's. Why would they make laws that make their job harder?

As far as allowing 18-year olds to drink, I am 100% against it. If the public wants real slaughter on the highways, lower the drinking age and prepare to watch the blood flow. If military bases wanted to have special exceptions, I wouldn't care as long as steps were taken to keep the drunken 18-year olds from driving off-base. I don't support allowing anyone with a military ID to buy anywhere, because it would be far to easy for someone on leave to fuel-up his high-school house-party with two or three kegs.

By the way, I enlisted a couple of weeks after my 17th birthday, left for basic right after graduation, and was at my first base several weeks before my 18th birthday...which was celebrated shortly before deploying to Saudi.
 
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