Massachusetts Cop Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
MassCops Angel
Joined
·
121,497 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
By Michael Doyle | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON - Marine Corps Pvt. Lazzaric T. Caldwell slit his wrists and spurred a legal debate that's consuming the Pentagon, as well as the nation's top military appeals court.
On Tuesday, the court wrestled with the wisdom of prosecuting Caldwell after his January 2010 suicide attempt. Though Caldwell pleaded guilty, he and his attorneys now question his original plea and the broader military law that makes "self-injury" a potential criminal offense.
The questions resonate amid what Pentagon leaders have called an "epidemic" of military suicides.
"If suicide is indeed the worst enemy the armed forces have," Senior Judge Walter T. Cox III said, "then why should we criminalize it when it fails?"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/11/27/175710/in-suicide-epidemic-military-wrestles.html
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
I guess it depends. It's a symptom of failure to deal with problems currently affecting them. Would any self harming behavior or attempt be automatic reason to launch a cop off the job? You could say that reckless behavior without regard to personal safety is kind of an attempt at self-harm, at the very least not having a real will to live. I've seen it in guys, that eventually got their life sorted...

It's obviously really complicated.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
I was speaking in terms of US Military... not police departments.
Both carry firearms, are tasked to carry them in the line of duty, and operate in stressful situations. I was just creating a reasonable comparison

And both are fearful to report mental health issues for fear of job loss.
 
G

·
Suicide is the #1 problem in the military today. I know they are doing everything possible that they can think of to try to fix it, but we have to do more.... I just don't know what the answer is, I wish I had it....
If someone is determined to commit suicide, there is nothing anyone can do to prevent them from doing it, other than locking them in a secure psychiatric facility, which is completely impractical.

I did my Master's thesis on PTSD, stress, and suicide among law enforcement (VERY similar culture to the military), and the biggest impediments to people seeking help are sanctions/termination from their job, stigmatization from their peers, and a sense of failure within themselves.

The Catch-22 is that anyone in the military and police ranks, no matter what their superior officers/supervisors tell them, is risking all of the above if they seek help.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
I was looking at it in terms of military and being away from family for extended periods of time factoring in.

But I guess ol'Dan knows more of my thought process than I do.
Sorry. I'll go back in my hole.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
Dont forget to spank Delta too, he said the same exact thing I did, except much better. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,146 Posts
We have quarterly briefings on suicide prevention and it's sad that it still happens at such an alarming rate. Punishing suicide attempt failures? That's a terrible idea, get them the help that they need. There are several places on base you can turn to. I believe the chaplain is 100% confidentiality but then again maybe not when it comes to harming yourself or others.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,057 Posts
If an individual goes voluntary into a psych facility with S.I does that affect their ltc ? The key word being voluntary.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,093 Posts
Isn't or shouldn't suicide attempts be cause to expell the soldier?
I was speaking in terms of US Military... not police departments.
I was looking at it in terms of military and being away from family for extended periods of time factoring in.

But I guess ol'Dan knows more of my thought process than I do.
This is where you went off the rails. When did I even say your name. I was speaking generally and discussing the topic at hand. I was trying to create a parallell example that would make sense to you, as you are a part of the Criminal Justice system. I don't know any of your thought process regarding them being away from home... because that post above is the first time you said it. ROFL

I'm not spanking anyone - you make a habit of twisting my posts and I'm asking you to knock it off.

Why can't you just ignore me, rather than continue to twist my words?
You first. Your argument reminds me of the old joke:

A guy walks into an ink blot test, and sees the first picture. What do you see says the doc?
Boobs
Next picture?
Boobs
Next?
More boobs.
I think you have an infatuation with boobs says the Doctor.
Not really doc, you're the one holding up all the dirty pictures! :)

Back on topic. I hope that stigmas don't get in they way of warriors (home and abroad) getting the help they need.
 
G

·
I was going to spent 2.4 seconds Google-imageing this phrase. I then said fuckit and spent my time more wisely - browsing thechive.com from my cruiser, where ironically I find exactly what I couldn't be bothered to look for:

Today's Daily Morning Awesomeness pic #27:
 
G

·
We have quarterly briefings on suicide prevention and it's sad that it still happens at such an alarming rate. Punishing suicide attempt failures? That's a terrible idea, get them the help that they need. There are several places on base you can turn to. I believe the chaplain is 100% confidentiality but then again maybe not when it comes to harming yourself or others.
There are several categories of people who have confidentiality with their patients/clients, including lawyers, physicians, psychologists. mental health counselors, and clergy.

However, confidentiality doesn't extend when the patient/client makes credible statements/threats that they intend to hurt themselves or others, which is the Catch-22. Seek help because you're thinking of suicide, and you end up in a hospital on suicide watch with your career/future career in shambles.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,057 Posts
Yup....kiss your LTC goodbye. Access to firearms is one of the first questions asked to people with suicidal ideation.
If I remember correctly ones ltc application asks if you have ever been "involuntarily" admitted or committed to a psych facility. How would any psych Dr or nurse know if you have access to firearms, obviously if you admit it but if you simply say no I'm not sure ,or I dont think they do any kind of reporting to the pd or state so how would anyone even know. I am pretty surr it hinges on the voluntary or involuntary part and not just the fact one was pink papered
 
G

·
If I remember correctly ones firearms application asks if you have ever been "involuntarily" admitted or committed to a psych facility. How would any psych Dr or nurse know if you have access to firearms, obviously if you admit it but if you simply say no I'm not sure ,or I dont think they do any kind of reporting to the pd or state so how would anyone even know. I am pretty surr it hinges on the voluntary or involuntary part and not just the fact one was pink papered
Every time I have a physical, I'm asked if there are firearms in my home. I politely tell them it's none of their business, but considering they know I'm a police officer, they can make the logical assumption that I do. If I confided in my physician that I was thinking of suicide (which I'm NOT, for the rats reading this), you can bet your ass I'd be called into the chief's office, disarmed, and pink-papered.

Likewise with the military.....I know of very few service members who don't own a private firearm, but all of them have *access* to firearms, so any expression of suicidal ideation will land them in the jackpot in their chain of command.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
722 Posts
Bearing in mind was a peacetime Marine, The Marine in question was in the brig for murdering his room mate when he made his attempt. It's a dirty shame that some poor grunt with multiple tours under his belt and dealing with a legit case of PTSD gets painted with the same brush as this POS.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,371 Posts
I am pretty surr it hinges on the voluntary or involuntary part and not just the fact one was pink papered
If you were "Pink papered" (Section 12), then you were in fact INVOLUNTARILY committed.

As a matter of fact, section 12 specifically requires that a person be given the option of signing in voluntarily before they can be held under a section.

"(c) No person shall be admitted to a facility under the provisions of this section unless he, or his parent or legal guardian in his behalf, is given an opportunity to apply for voluntary admission..."
 

·
Lemme take a selfie
Joined
·
5,842 Posts
I know everyone means well in this thread by their analysis of the content, but stop for a second and think about this. It's fucking sad. This kind of shit wrenches my heart.

The guys that are tasked with defending our freedoms, find life so intolerable after their experiences that they choose to commit suicide. This makes my eyes water kids... I'm a frosty fuck, and have little sympathy for anything, but this gets me.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top