[Irish Wampanoag]

OK I think this issue was dicussed before but i am still confused.
I know there is no requirement for anyone to produce an ID to a police officer if that said individual has not commited any crime.

Ok with that thought and knowledge please read this scenario

Mr John Q is standing on the busy street corner when he is approached by Mr. Mike X. Mr X punches Mr Q which turns out to be a simple assault and battery (misdermeanor) on Mr Q. I Officer Friendly respond after the fact and I am approached by Mr Q who wants to file charges against Mr X for A+B. Several witness confirm Mr.Q's story about being A+B. I approach Mr. X who I ask for an ID so I can file a criminal complaint on behalf of Mr. Q and Mr X politely refuses to give me his ID or Name etc....

What the hell can I do ????? Can any POs give me information on this? This has yet to be done to me but chances are it will some day

 

[j809]

You can arrest him for failure to identify himself, because it's a criminal offense.

 

[Irish Wampanoag]

Ok cool do you know the MGL on that law?

 

[union1]

Way I understand it is that Mr X would have to file his own complaint against Mr Q or vice versa. A&B outside an officers presence is not arrestable and there is no requirement for any tom dick or harry to carry any ID on them if they are not driving so I dont see how failure to ID would fly, I mean you could ask for a Name but there really is no 100 percent way to verify that info. Failure to Submit only goes for Booking Procedures or when someone is under arrest (Was explained to me by BPD)

 

[Micky]

Interesting scenario. I probably would have them take out complaints against each other and let them deal with it in court with the judge. Also, you could summons the suspect to court. You could ask for a name and address or a date of birth or social security number. Of course, he could refuse. Then you may try to force his hand somehow and get him for disorderly or disturbing the peace. If all else fails, you could charge "obstruction of justice" which is a common law offense that covers acts that harm the administration of justice (Comm. v. Reynolds). However, never charge without consulting with the DA's office or the AG's office (according to J. Scheft's criminal law 2002). If you wish to not have any headaches, cut your losses and tell them to take out complaints against each other. They usually don't go to court anyhow and take up your valuable time as you sit there twiddling your thumbs.

Hope this helps.

 

[rhl]

It's interesting to note that if a person spits on a sidewalk and refuses to provide ID, he/she can be arrested w/o a warrant! But, assault another human being and your hands are tied trying to ID the perp. I like the idea about obstruction of justice or some type of interfering with an invest. If there were witnesses, interview them and see if they know to perp. If so, you'll be good to go. Just another one of those gray areas that we all get "big bucks" to deal with. rhl

 

[LeadDog17]

It's interesting to note that if a person spits on a sidewalk and refuses to provide ID, he/she can be arrested w/o a warrant! But, assault another human being and your hands are tied trying to ID the perp. I like the idea about obstruction of justice or some type of interfering with an invest. If there were witnesses, interview them and see if they know to perp. If so, you'll be good to go. Just another one of those gray areas that we all get "big bucks" to deal with. rhl

Chapter 270: Section 15. Arrest without warrant for spitting.

Section 15. Any person detected in the act of violating the preceding section may, if his name is unknown to the officer, be arrested without a warrant by any officer authorized to serve criminal process in the place where the offence is committed and kept in custody until he can be taken before a court having jurisdiction of such offence.

t:
What exactly constitutes "unknown". If someone gives their name, address, ss#, DOB, etc, but no ID, do you think you could still get away with saying he was "unknown"??? If you locked someone up for this, think it would actually stick?
-Eric

 

[rhl]

If he/she states a name & address, I think it's good in the context of this law. However, if he/she says nothing and offers no written ID, then it's a grab. The court may laugh at it, but if it leads to something more, like drugs or weapons found during an inventory search, then you should be good to go. rhl

 

[Irish Wampanoag]

MGL 272/60 says you can arrest for the purpose of ascertaining identity for some one who throws trash in a public way.

I still dont see any MGL for my scenario

However, the obstruction of justice sounds good