Going On The Defensive | MassCops

Going On The Defensive

Discussion in 'Fire, EMS & Medical' started by rocksy1826, Jan 17, 2007.

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  1. rocksy1826

    rocksy1826 MassCops Member

    Really messed up situation on my shift last night makes me ask....

    Any suggestions on types of personal protection devices or whatever that can be suggested that EMS can carry? Other than things that need to be licensed or registered.

    Also, anyone know of good self-defense or model mugging classes in the greater Boston area?

    Do you need a permit for pepper spray? I know you do for mace, but unsure about pepper spray.

    It happens to all of us, someone loses their shit and you end up having to fight. Looking to have a leg up on the situations when they do arise. (and to compensate for being short and unarmed)
  2. Gil

    Gil Founder of MassCops Staff Member

    For mace you must have an FID card, or a license to carry firearms.

    If you have no interest in possessing a rifle, shotgun or handgun, you can request a restricted FID card allowing you to carry only mace or pepper spray, but not to possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun. The advantage of this restricted FID card is that you do not have to take an otherwise state mandated basic firearms safety course.
  3. rocksy1826

    rocksy1826 MassCops Member

    My employer would never go for us carrying any sort of gun. How do I go about getting a restricted FID card?
  4. Gil

    Gil Founder of MassCops Staff Member

    Just go to your local pd and put in the application. Not to sure on the process or time involved tho... sorry.

    What were you doing at Dudley Sq anyway? I would have replied but was serving warrants with ICE this morning...
  5. Inspector

    Inspector Subscribing Member

    Ummmm...Maybe a special easily accessible syringe of that "special stuff"
  6. rocksy1826

    rocksy1826 MassCops Member

    routine bullshit transfer. it wasn't even our patient. i closed up my partner and the patient in the back, was walking around towards the drivers seat (like 5am) and this totally shitfaced/high guy sees me and shit happened.

    Big mess. My partner is officially the man due to his actions
  7. US706

    US706 New Member

    Of course the carrying of OC will depend on your employer policy also.

    As far as a course that is directed towards self defense and not traditional martial arts or like we as law enforcement use (DT) Defensive Tatics which focus' on control and comliance you need something that is going to allow you to break contact quickly and get out of a situation.

    you could look into Krav Maga they have a location right in boston. www.kravmaga.com
  8. Lost

    Lost MassCops Member

    I used to work EMS in a rough city, and had some lovely clients a couple of times as well. The best advice I ever got was to figure out what could be used to protect you. Keeping in mind you won't be staying to fight this well meaning citizen, always remember what you have and what is around you. Back end of a portable works, and I know some who have thrown heavy med bags at the center body mass to slow down a shit head.

    I am not saying these actions are ideal, or should be used at all. I am just saying that when your life is in question, procedure sometimes goes out the window. And remember, even if you can carry OC, it will not work all the time, and it will usually be those most under the influence of certain drugs who will be completely immune.

    You should get a PR-24- that would be your best bet :cool:
  9. mopar6972

    mopar6972 Subscribing Member

    Lifepak-12 if you're a medic... Suitable AED for basic's and intermediates. Aim and swing.:D Most services are not going to let you "officially" carry any type of impact weapon, OC spray or the like. Your best bet might be courses which are designed provide a little knowledge to quickly separate yourself from a situation. MOAB ( management of aggressive behavior) is one, and there are many types out there. An additional consideration might be the use of a small concealable kubaton and training.. PM me if you want more info...
  10. Inspector

    Inspector Subscribing Member

    Hey Rocks....How about some alcohol or like substance in a handy little spray bottle?
  11. Stevec

    Stevec New Member

    I am surprised that one of these options isn't automatic for EMS. I could imagine situations getting pretty ugly.
  12. EOD1

    EOD1 Subscribing Member

    how bout a 16mg dart w/ 20mg of haldol & 6mg of adavan!
  13. Inspector

    Inspector Subscribing Member

    Yeah.,..Like I said..."special stuff"
  14. mopar6972

    mopar6972 Subscribing Member

    Bleach works, too
  15. rocksy1826

    rocksy1826 MassCops Member

    problem is i was getting into the drivers seat, i didn't have any equipment on me at that point. trying to hit and screaming bloody murder worked decently, but i don't always have a 6ft 5 jacked guy for a partner. It took him a few to realize I was screaming "get away from me, help" before he got out so I'd like to find some kind of self defense class that really teaches you how to react.

    In the back I'm on guard and ready for shit, this was totally out of nowhere and I wasn't ready and i was caught in a awkward spot that made it hard to get a hit in. I don't really want to get into what happened last night and details.

    so... self defense class. anyone know one? the one you're talking about... do you know where it's offered?
  16. Lost

    Lost MassCops Member


    Sounds like it was a real tough spot, sorry you got caught up. Wish I had an answer for a self defense class, but just one more idea- impact weapons may be a no-no, but maybe find a spot for a good d-cell mag when you are in the bad areas? Just an idea, sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
  17. Tango

    Tango Subscribing Member

    From someone that has worked EMS in a busy city for many years prior to L.E, having OC/Mace/chemical of your choice is a bad idea in the back of an ambulance. A hand full of times I have had a well intentioned P.O spray a "patient" who is going nuts....next thing you know everyone has to bail out due to the spray. One time we had to call for another truck to transport since we both couldnt see to drive the damn thing. I put $$ on the fact that it would be against any policy, especially a private ambulance company's policy to allow it. Just because you go out and get a restriced FID to carry it, if you are using it in the type of capacity you are speaking of, you need to be trained in it as well. It's not rocket science, but there is some things you need to consider.

    As previously mentioned, use what you have. I will be the first to admit, the general public/EMS managers dont realize the shitheads that EMS personnel have to put up with. Use what you need to to get out of the situation. A o2 tank across the head maybe a bit tough to answer to:), but you know what I mean.

    Im sure you can find someone you work with or a friend/local PO who would be more than happy to come by your station for an afternoon and teach you some basic DT moves/holds.

    Good Luck
  18. OCKS

    OCKS Guest

    From time to time some depts. run a RAD course which is a self defence course for women. There is also a (not sure of spelling) Ku baton which is a little five/six inch small baton that you could attach to your keys. It is not a strike weapon but more of a jab type weapon
    Be safe.
  19. rocksy1826

    rocksy1826 MassCops Member

    i've actually used the o2 tank to the head technique before. It works incredibly well.

    thanks for the advice guys.
  20. 94c

    94c Subscribing Member

    Hey, I've got an idea!

    How about calling the Police?
  21. rocksy1826

    rocksy1826 MassCops Member

    i did that. but guess what? It's really difficult to call someone when you're fighting someone, smartass.

    thank you for your incredibly inciteful and helpful response to my questions about where to take courses and what kinds of methods people use for protection.
  22. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    As mentioned, letting loose pepper spray in the back of an ambulance isn't the best option, ask some of your x-ray co-workers.

    I've done it several times, but then again I didn't have to ride in the back on the way to the hospital. :cool:
  23. 4ransom

    4ransom Subscribing Member

    I don't understand why they won't let you guys carry... I mean there is no way I would be caught dead working Boston EMS or any other dangerous area and being on the scenes of murders literally seconds after they happen and not having any personal protection. If you are qualified enough to have sombody's life in your hands, you should be able to carry a firearm to defend yourself.
  24. LandShark9C1

    LandShark9C1 New Member


    Another vote for Krav or similar self defense course...

    Although, I don't think OC spray is a horrible idea so long as you get the FID card and understand how/when to use it. At least that way you can incapacitate an attacker from a distance.

    either self defense skills or OC both have their own pros and cons...

    with open hand/kubaton/ect you are going to get up close and personal....

    OC you can use from about 4-6 ft away... however it is also something that might get turned against you/accidentally expose yourself while spraying someone else.

    While your service might have some kind of liability about it, it is not totally unheard of for EMTs to carry firearms(remember that instructor jane brought in? the really cynical guy, he was packing while working as a paramedic) so why not OC?

    either way
    let me me know what you decide, I'm curious.
  25. Simon

    Simon Guest

    I dont think EMS personnel should carry firearms.......... Just my .02
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