Framingham leaving Civil Service | Page 2 | MassCops

Framingham leaving Civil Service

Discussion in 'New England' started by 02136colonel, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    He’s no hostage. He’s a good cop and because of his experience they made him a detective. If you have a good CBA you’re very well protected and promotion language in many non CS contracts is very strong. I know some that went to arbitration etc. my hometown just left CS. Their contracts sucked, 5-2, no Quinn, no first right of refusal on overtime(went to reserves). We cleaned up our contract a few years ago with the masscop lawyers and added all the extra language for protections. In Civil service, I know many people that got the shaft on promotions with little recourse. Even if you get bypassed all CS can do is tell them to put you to top of list. Chiefs wait for list to expire and hire someone else.

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  2. samadam78

    samadam78 MassCops Member

    ok and the guy like me who has a master’s degree 12 years on the Job and a FUCK TON of advanced training cant even apply for a bigger agency because im not a vet or resident. So which is fair? How is the “best candidate” being selected when a guy with a slamming resume one town over cant even get an interview. Civil service is an antiquated system that wont exist in less than 10
    Years.... RI has no civil service system and guess what i have a shit load of buddies who got on not knowing anyone guess how? They were good fucking applicants
    EUPD377 and j809 like this.
  3. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    Every person in Massachusetts who wants to be a cop knows that Veterans get Civil Service preference.

    What exactly prevented you from enlisting?
    mpd61 likes this.
  4. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    We have three combat vets on our PD and we are nonCS. We also only hire trained people and don’t send anyone to the academy. I have no problem giving preference to veterans and thank them for their service. Absolute preference is not the way to go, a poor system like the MSP and the feds is more fair.

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    EUPD377 likes this.
  5. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    There have been cases of that, and the aggrieved can go to Superior Court to enforce the CS decision. When a Superior Court judge orders “_________ SHALL be promoted to the rank of _________ immediately”, then you do it.

    No judge in the world is going to order a promotion for a non-CS department.
  6. samadam78

    samadam78 MassCops Member

    My mom was sick with cancer so i stayed home and commuted to school.... not everyone can sign up and just because youre a vet doesn’t make you a good cop
    EUPD377 and j809 like this.
  7. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    How do you know ? What experience do you have in that? I know people that towns were forced to promote when they won at arbitrator. Binding arbitration

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  8. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound MassCops Member

    Leaving civil service can be a great move provided you are compensated accordingly for the change AND your city/town accepts the union's properly created system for handling promotions, discipline, and appeals through arbitration. That is usually where the deal falls apart though.
    EUPD377 and j809 like this.
  9. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    They have to negotiate those under mandatory subject of bargaining for conditions of employment. Some towns are cute and won’t provide anymore financial gains but they have to negotiate the other terms.

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    Bloodhound likes this.
  10. Danusmc0321

    Danusmc0321 MassCops Member

    Correct, it's usually doesn't make you a better cop. That's not the point. From a starting point, the vet has made sacrifices, usually in war time to get that preference. They served their country, took a step towards a big unknown so they should be rewarded for it. I have my bachelors, and completed it after I was on, but I got WAY more useful police experience from the military than college. I don't want to hear "well I made sacrifices too working at McDonald's and putting myself through the reserve academy". I have also talked to multiple guys before who have asked me for advice getting on in Mass and twice I remember Recommending the military and they said something along the lines of "well I don't want to be hurt or killed". Atleast they were honest, but the last kid that said that too me I said "well fuck you then, find something else to do". I figured out the CS game at age 20, realized my continuing on after my associates in CJ was a waste of time to be hired initially.

    That being said, Samadam I completely understand the guy who has been on for a while, has a bunch of specialized training, shouldn't be behind a vet with no experience in CS I don't think that's right either. I have heard guys complain about promotional exams and vet pref. I get their point too, that the vets got it on the initial hire, even though it would personally help me. CS should change some of that, but from a starting point..
    samadam78, j809 and Bloodhound like this.
  11. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    I’m very happy where I am and glad I made the decision to work where I am. But 20 years ago I grew up and lived in a big city on the south shore. I had 101 on test with experience points, bachelors degree, full time academy and 4 years full time experience. Even as a resident too I was like 50 on the list. Like I said it has to have some fairness in the system. I believe they should do what they used to do many years ago, 5 points for vet and 10 points for dvet.

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  12. samadam78

    samadam78 MassCops Member

    Im all for the military Tons of respect and admiration and i have family members who have served and still are active Duty...
    I think the problem with CS is two fold
    1. Add points for military not absolute preference
    2. Consideration of some sort of lateral program from non cs to cs depts.
    EUPD377, PG1911 and j809 like this.
  13. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    Go look at the CS decisions on their website, and you’ll see “Related Superior Court Decision” on some of them.
  14. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    Yes, everyone can sign up. There were a few guys in their 30’s in my BCT company.

    If you’re excluded from enlisting in the military, then you’ll never pass the background to become a cop, anyway.
  15. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    Not necessarily. There are physical and medical issues that will disqualify people from military service that won't be issues for police work. I couldn't enlist because of a medical issue that the military wouldn't waive, but I got a police job despite the issue.
    felony, samadam78 and j809 like this.
  16. samadam78

    samadam78 MassCops Member

  17. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    None that I’m aware of, my police physical was a lot more restrictive than my military intake physical.

    If I only had a dollar for every time I’ve heard “I almost enlisted”, or “I tried to enlist”.
  18. felony

    felony MassCops Member

    If you have any underlying medical issues, you can be excluded from military service. Allergies to nuts, diabetes, ADHD, etc can prohibit a trainee from entering the military but not from police departments. I am a veteran and MEPs was about the same as my initial examination for employment minus the X-rays.
    PG1911 and 02136colonel like this.
  19. 02136colonel

    02136colonel Supporting Member

    Also remember that until recently, people couldn’t serve in the military if they were openly gay or transgender, which is not a barrier to police service (nor should it be)
    PG1911 likes this.
  20. USAF3424

    USAF3424 MassCops Member

    I only had to do the duck walk at MEPS lol
  21. USAF286

    USAF286 MassCops Member

    I wonder if crypt keeper is still at MEPS...guy had to be 110 years old..
    Danusmc0321 likes this.
  22. IamTheDude

    IamTheDude MassCops Member

    If they followed the MMA model, it will be all kinds of messed up.... Civil Service is not great, but getting out of it can be a fucking disaster with political influence.

    Any unions that may are considering this, please reach out, Ill talk about how its it gone.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020

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