Framingham leaving Civil Service | MassCops

Framingham leaving Civil Service

Discussion in 'New England' started by 02136colonel, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. 02136colonel

    02136colonel Supporting Member

  2. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    I heard full Quinn for everybody

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    Joel98 and 02136colonel like this.
  3. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    Heard Natick was doing same.

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    02136colonel likes this.
  4. visible25

    visible25 Supporting Member

    Such a shame to see all these departments leaving a perfectly established system in which only the best candidates get hired and the overall hiring process is completely streamlined!

    PG1911, JR90, EUPD377 and 2 others like this.
  5. 02136colonel

    02136colonel Supporting Member

    Full Quinn is definitely worth making some concessions for. I’d be curious to see if they got it as a lump sum/“stipend” each year or if it’s added to their base pay. The second option is much better bc it’s built into your OT rate, but not too many contracts include it.
    Hopefully Natick can also get full Quinn for leaving CS, I think their contract is better than Framingham at baseline but if you can get a concession all the better.
  6. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound MassCops Member

    No they did not.
    02136colonel likes this.
  7. PG1911

    PG1911 Back Out in the Sticks

    How do cities and towns decide whether or not to be part of civil service or to leave it?
    02136colonel likes this.
  8. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound MassCops Member

    It's a complicated answer. Usually, the city/town will negotiate with the unions to come to an agreement to leave. Then it's "the way you came in is how you go out". In other words, as one example, if a town entered civil service through a Town Meeting vote, then they would have to leave through a Town Meeting vote. There is also another mechanism that a town could use to force it if the unions won't come to an agreement. In Framingham's case, the rank-and-file got the wool pulled over their eyes by their own union president (my opinion, I'm just a guy on the internet).
    felony and PG1911 like this.
  9. 02136colonel

    02136colonel Supporting Member

    To leave Civil Service, a town needs to negotiate it with their union(s), then submit home rule legislation thru their state legislators to not be CS anymore. In practice, once the unions agree, such legislation never faces any serious challenges on Beacon Hill
    PG1911 likes this.
  10. 02136colonel

    02136colonel Supporting Member

    Bloodhound beat me to it and explained it better
  11. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    Civil Service at least allows a remedy when someone gets bypassed for political reasons. No CS and you get bypassed for the town manager’s best friend’s cousin, you’re shit out of luck.

    Let the nepotism begin!!!
    felony likes this.
  12. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    Doesn’t have to go town meeting anymore. They can leave by a selectmen mayor or town manager decision and they only have to negotiate with union over contract language for promotions discipline etc. They don’t have to give the union anything money $ for it but most towns do.

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  13. samadam78

    samadam78 MassCops Member

    So does non CS. We fought a bypass through a ULP and won. The fact is that CS is an antiquated system that BLOWS. The best candidates are often not hired and for the smaller departments waiting a year for a new list to hire someone is 100s of hours of OT many of it forced
    j809 likes this.
  14. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound MassCops Member

    No selectmen mayor or town manager can unilaterally decide for the municipality to leave civil service. Webster just went through this in January Webster voters OK dropping Civil Service for police
  15. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member

    No, non-CS departments can hire whoever they like, regardless of the sham exam scores, and those who are bypassed have no recourse whatsoever.

    In other words, the Purple Heart disabled combat veteran with a back full of shrapnel who scored 100 can (and will be) passed over for the cousin of the best friend of a selectman’s hairdresser who scored a 70, and the screwed-over Veteran has zero recourse.
    Do you consider that system fair? And, does the “remove political influence from public sector hiring”, which was the stated goal of CS to begin with, still seem fair?
    felony likes this.
  16. felony

    felony MassCops Member

    Framingham is a busy department. I am curious what they received. Last I heard, you got a stipend of $3,000 for a bachelor's. Their pay scale was terrible. Top step was $32 after 25 years of service.
    Natick starting pay has been decent. I started in a civil service department and my union voted to get out like everyone else, for education incentive. However, the sham hiring process we have now is criminal. I can't wait for all the bitching in 5 years saying these hiring processes are BS and want CS back.

    Good luck to those trying to promote as well. It will be a suck fest for rank.
    Roy Fehler likes this.
  17. felony

    felony MassCops Member

    Ouch, care to share?
  18. Roy Fehler

    Roy Fehler MassCops Member


    It’s been my experience that those who bitch the loudest about Civil Service are non-Veterans (who should shut the fuck up) or those who can’t make the score to get hired, and are either bitter, or need to use their political juice to get hired.

    Those people should also shut the fuck up.

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