Fighting for your life (Video will make you pucker) | MassCops

Fighting for your life (Video will make you pucker)

Discussion in 'War Stories' started by Hush, May 26, 2016.

  1. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Lessons from Brooklyn Park - Calibre Press
    Chilling video, could have ended very badly. Cowboy will have some great tips and insights, and I'm sure he addresses these issues at his classes. The commentary is well done.
  2. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    I was hoping someone would post this video on here. Several important lessons to be learned here. Thanks Hush.
    Hush likes this.
  3. Pvt. Cowboy

    Pvt. Cowboy Lemme take a selfie Staff Member

    My good God.

    Had that guy wanted to kill that cop, he could have. And there wasn't a damn thing that cop could have done to defend against it.

    Screaming "help" isn't doing a damn thing.

    The only, ONLY thing he did right, was turn his chin into crook of the guys arm when he tried to choke him. That was literally it.

    DT is taught how many times in a cops career? Once in the academy?

    Clearly it's not effective.
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  4. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Fixed blade knife, centerline accessible. I saw another version with commentary from the Chief, he said something about the officer rendering the gun "inoperable", guessing that means he dumped the mag and burned the round in the chamber off...the first time I watched I thought the bad guy touched it off, and was reassuring the officer that he didn't try to shoot him. Bad guy didn't let up even when the sirens were coming.
  5. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    I think what is harder to teach is recognizing when you're not just in a struggle, but a life and death battle. When approved techniques go out the window and you MUST stab, bite, and gouge. This guy wasn't resisting to escape, he stayed to fight. Scary.
  6. HuskyH-2

    HuskyH-2 G-Rap made me do it!

    Hush likes this.
  7. PBC FL Cop

    PBC FL Cop Subscribing Member

    He wanted to kill that officer, thankfully he was unable to succeed. These people are out there!! Stay alert, stay vigilant and STAY SAFE!!
    Mr Scribbles likes this.
  8. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

    I can say many things about this video but I wont. I will say this though . . . wow.
    Mr Scribbles and mpd61 like this.
  9. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    This IS the place to critique, because everyone can learn from it.
  10. patrol22

    patrol22 MassCops Member

    Alright I'll start. First big thing that I noticed is you shouldn't be making an arrest without a second guy there. Obviously sometimes we don't have a choice but in a case like this where it's a warrant and time is on your side why not wait for backup?

    Not trying to bag on the officer, we've all done it but it's a good learning point
    LA Copper and Hush like this.
  11. Herrdoktor

    Herrdoktor MassCops Member

    Oh it's doing something. It's burning energy and oxygen that your body desperately needs.

    I know I am getting old when I see shit like this and the first thing that comes to mind is, 'why aren't you waiting for back up?' As officers we all think we are badasses but there is nothing wrong with realizing that time is usually on our side. If you know someone else is coming stall for a few minutes by bullshitting with the dirtbag in the car and wait until you have another officer with you.

    Also carry at least one blade with you. If stopping the threat means you have to stab/cut them so be it.
    Mr Scribbles, Pvt. Cowboy and Hush like this.
  12. Pvt. Cowboy

    Pvt. Cowboy Lemme take a selfie Staff Member

    Well duhhh. I meant it isn't doing anything to HELP his cause.

    And absofuckinlutely on your second point. Weak side. Always, always. I've demonstrated it to people, why they need it. My point gets made really fast.
  13. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    And where a fixed blade shines over a folder. This video has been out a week or so, and I waited before posting here. It should be shown at roll call in every dept.... if you haven't seen it yet, subscribe to the calibre press emails and YOU can be the one to bring it up in your dept and get the discussions started.
  14. carodo

    carodo MassCops Member

    Eh, screaming is what got a witness to come out and already call a 911 operator. It got someone to notice his plight, at least.

    One thing I noticed, I think this dude never had a winning mindset either. He definitely let the suspect control the situation. Never disengaged to make space, and didnt go after any soft spots, and I think he apologized for the round going off. I may have seen that wrong though.
    Mr Scribbles, LA Copper and Hush like this.
  15. Pvt. Cowboy

    Pvt. Cowboy Lemme take a selfie Staff Member

    I'll buy that. However...had someone not been within earshot...

    Just burning oxygen, and it was pretty obvious that he was panicked by the sound of his screams. Panic that the suspect may have picked up on.

    This cop doesn't have what's needed to survive. Not the training, nor the mindset. This cop is just flat out LUCKY he's still breathing. He can't fight for shit.

    And before anyone pig piles on me for not having LE related experience, I've had my share of fights, and also my share of time on the mat. I know what it's like to have the unconscious incompetence of not knowing how to fight, vs the conscious competence I have now.

    Carodo made a good point too, he made no effort to disengage and make space, possibly grabbing spray, taser, or other means from his belt. I'm guessing because he didn't know how. Rener Gracie says it all the time... Cops need ground work.
    carodo and Hush like this.
  16. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    All good points folks.
    One more to add: poor handcuffing technique. I'm guessing everyone before this suspect just went along with the program and didn't resist. All it takes is one guy to say "it's go time" and you better be ready. Sometimes it's the simple things that can get us hurt or worse.

    I'll use the word "debrief" rather than "criticize" when it comes to talking about these types of videos. This is a great learning tool so why not take advantage of it. "Failure to train is training to fail."

    Hopefully this officer has already watched his own video and makes his own honest assessment.
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  17. Mr Scribbles

    Mr Scribbles Mr

    I'm with Cowboy on this one. That guy was just plain lucky. There wasn't any discernible size difference between the two, but that guy wanted to fight and it looked to me like the cop did not. None of us ever do (except for a few whackos who hit the heavy bag too much in the gym) but if it's ON, it's ON. This guy didn't even throw a punch from what I saw, no effort to grab anything off the belt. I blame the teaching. Especially around here. That word "restraint" they love up at the Crystal Palace will be on some cops' tombstone, and not in a good way either. No one likes getting hit, but if you have to, hit back hard and fast. I also think Hush makes a good point, recognizing when it's "for keeps" is important. Most shitbags will throw a punch or a shove and take off, the one who hangs around for more than one or two punches ain't going easy and you need to realize you need to be in it to win it. Hush also makes a valid argument for a knife. Aside from the obvious need, in a situation like this, a boot blade could have tilted the scale in the Officer's favor. I carry at least two (one fixed, one folding). A detective saw my fixed, and made a comment to the effect the Department would hang me out to dry if I ever used it. I told him if it came to the point where I needed it, I would no longer be worried about what the Department would do, as long as I was around for them to do it to. This looks like that place.
    GARDA, Hank Moody, Goose and 5 others like this.
  18. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

  19. Treehouse413

    Treehouse413 MassCops Member

    Okay I think by watching The video mistakes were made but I believe that his screaming saved his life. It got someone's attention. Secondly how many of us with any time on have fuc&ed up during an arrest or were complacent? I'll admit to it. Stay safe stay alive have a great memorial weekend.
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  20. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Agreed, he did save his life by screaming, that's kinda obvious. It was better than nothing in this case.

    When I was a young officer working patrol, especially when working in gang areas, I made it a point to never be complacent just so this, or worse, didn't happen...

    Ours isn't the type of profession where we can be on our "A game" most of the time, it has to be all of the time, especially when dealing with suspects... and in this case, suspects with felony warrants and you're making the arrest by yourself.
    PBC FL Cop likes this.
  21. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    Oh go ahead, it'll be ok.
    pahapoika and Pvt. Cowboy like this.
  22. JD02124

    JD02124 Supporting Member

    Ok I haven't been doing this job long and im not a walking Municple or M.G.L book and I understand complacency and I dont claim to know it all and I understand things could have been done different like calling in another unit this that and the other thing.… but in my opinion if you're placing someone under arrest (taking someone's freedom) despite who they are and despite whatever repport you may already have with them. EXPECT RESISTENCE! Dont be like ok Billy turn around time to go jail and expect him to be like you got it buddy! Have it in your mind if he does this im gunna do this this and this and if that doesnt work ill do this. This Officer was out of the fight the second the suspect put his hand behind his back and the cuffs were out. Either off duty or on or sitting in your patrol car or standing in line for lunch when the fight is on its on! Your only goal should be to win! Im gunna end my rant there.
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
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  23. zm88

    zm88 MassCops Member

    Didn't look like he ever had control of that situation and the shitbag picked up on that.
  24. Truck

    Truck MassCops Member

    Looks to me like the officer had never been in a fight before in his life. His first thought was to call for help. Maybe he expected a parent, a teacher, or someone else to come break up the fight. I expect to see a lot more of this in this pussified, every body wins and gets a trophy society. I'm far from the toughest guy out there and way past my prime but I sure would have put up more a a fight.
    The officer better do some serious reflection on his career choice.
  25. Pvt. Cowboy

    Pvt. Cowboy Lemme take a selfie Staff Member

    My favorite comment so far.
    Mr Scribbles likes this.

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