[chief801]

But Kate's not looking for paid time off, just to not burn all of her sic/vac time, just for FMLA.

Now, what if she has to go on bedrest early? That shortens her time off after delivery.

I think she should be allowed to use a few weeks paid time off, (sic/vac) and then kick in 12 weeks of unpaid FMLA. Really, what's it to the department anyway? Who's going to grieve it? No one's done it before.

Not being cold, I have kids and I understand...

Depending on the size of the department, it really can have a huge impact. 12 weeks is a long time...imagine increasing that to 24 or 36 weeks...it cripples small departments! Women in other professions/vocations go back to work within 12 weeks (unless they can afford otherwise), I believe in doing everything we can for families, but we also have to keep troops on the road. Forced overtime gets really touchy to the troops after 12 or 14 weeks...

 

[kttref]

Actually, I am not causing a single ounce of OT. We are 8 guys down right now (due to injuries, pregnancy, etc) - and there is NO forced OT.

 

[drewpopo]

My town has let male offiers go on FMLA after the birth of a child, and allowed them to use accured time in order to be paid. Nothing in FMLA says you have have to use all your accured time. If you want to go out FMLA and not get paid, it is well within your rights, however if you hold you health insurance you will have to pay the town your contribution. FMLA is there so you can not be replaced. Some jobs will allow officers to burn sick time while on FMLA but require them to burn, Vac, pers, and admin time first.

 

[kttref]

Unfortunately the way the town has it's FMLA written up (which they are allowed to make more stringent), I MUST use all my accrused time. Oh well.

 

[Mass]

That's pretty much the long and short of it; I've just about used up my 4 weeks vaca/sick/personal time recovering from cancer surgery, and I'll be another two weeks before the doc will give me the ok to go back to work. I won't be collecting any pay for the last two weeks I'm out.

Good luck with your pregnancy.

I hope everything works out for you. Best of Luck!

 

[Sarge31]

I beliveve the FMLA and MMLA were developed out of fairness to both the towns/cities and the employees, to meet in the middle of the road so that both are fairly treated.

I also agree, that too much leave can have a huge impact on a small town or community. Although, I realize you aren't causing any overtime at this time, what the town/department provides to you, they will also have to provide to any other employee in the future....whether or not it costs OT. Every situation and every employee has to be treated fairly and consistently across the board. Thats' the bottom line.

Admittedly, it is a tough position for both the employee and management.............

Congrats on your new arrival, and I hope everything works out for you.

Happy New Year!

 

[westernmass]

You hit the nail on the head...my guys would NEVER go for anything maternity related to benefit one person...because it doesn't benefit them. I learned a long time ago - if it doesn't affect a person they will not vote for it. Thanks though, good thought!

Voting for leave will effect all union members. FMLA is NOT the old fashion "maternity" leave. The FMLA leave if for the benefit for the child, NOT for the mother.

Men have children too. All our employees are allowed FMLA leave, we do not discriminate between a male parent and a female parent. In our department - Men are allow 12 unpaid weeks (or pay using there time) for a birth of thier child.

Fact of the matter the law says

"Covered employers must grant an eligible employee up to a total of 12 workweeks of unpaid leave during any 12-month period for one or more of the following reasons:

• for the birth and care of the newborn child of the employee"

It doesn't say "continous weeks" therfere you can take 4 weeks off, go back to work for a couple weeks, take another 4 weeks off then go back to work etc etc...

It doesn't say "female" anywhere..... It says employee - FATHERS have rights too, maybe your male union members need to recognize their own importance.

Think of this.. a mother takes 12 weeks off after the birth of the child, she then goes back to work, so the father then takes 12 weeks off - total time of a parent with a child 24 weeks. =D>

Do yourself and your department a favor - stop using the tern "maternity" and explain to your union members that they have rights too!

Good luck, enjoy your son.

 

[westernmass]

Not being cold, I have kids and I understand...

Depending on the size of the department, it really can have a huge impact. 12 weeks is a long time...imagine increasing that to 24 or 36 weeks...it cripples small departments! Women in other professions/vocations go back to work within 12 weeks (unless they can afford otherwise), I believe in doing everything we can for families, but we also have to keep troops on the road. Forced overtime gets really touchy to the troops after 12 or 14 weeks...

You know what hurts even more - when a man (or woman) goes on military leave for over a year...

Or when someone gets sent to a 22 week academy ......

Or an IOD ..... etc

She is a police officer, she is also a human being, soon to be a mom (superhuman) 12-14 weeks is a small price to pay to allow an employee to have a family (which should be a right for all). You should not even try to make her feel guilty in wanting to be a mother and wanting to take care of her child, just because a town doesn't want to pay overtime, or because some employees are being "forced" to take overtime. That type of response is exactly why there is FMLA to being with.

 

[Sarge31]

WEsternmass.......I don't think anyone was trying to make her feel guilty about wanting to start a family and take care of her child. Chief801 was merely stating the obvious. The reality is, that we are in a unique occupation, where we can't simply shut the doors or not answer the phones, if someone doesn't come to work.

 

[westernmass]

You know what sarge ... I have been in this job for 19 years, and I have seen this situation before.. and it does make the employees feel guilty wether they are "pregnant" or they are sick or injured. The reality is, is that we think we are unique, but we are not. Most businesses and service agencies can't just "shut thier doors" or not "answer the phones", if they did they are out of business.

The type of response, (I am sure that chief did not mean it that way) does make females guilty. When a chief says "you know, if you go out and have a baby and asked for time off, the troops (guys) are going to have to be forced to work your shifts" is a poor response from any chief.

The response should be ... "take care of yourself and your family, we will make do with what we have, we can't wait until you get back."

The troops have to worked forced overtime for a multitude of reasons, such as military leave, sick leave, vacation leave, injury on duty, academy leave (need I go on?) That is the price of doing business in this "unique" profession. The troops signed onto the job they know that on occasion that they will be "forced" to work, and if they decide at some time in thier lives to have a family, kttref will be "forced" to work for them.

Hopefully, kttref will work in the profession until her retirement. If so, she will probably be an employee of the department for 30+ years. Is a twelve week "inconvenence" too much to ask, so she can care of her baby? If the "troops" are so shallow or inconsiderate that they get "touchy" about being "forced" to work for that reason, I think that there are more philisophical problems that need to be resolved.

I am not trying to be a jerk here, nor am I trying to attack you or the chief, but I think the attitudes that female officers get are outdated, we (all professional LEO's) need to recognize this and be fair. Oh btw, I, and our department, fully believe that male officers should be treated the same, and if they request to have thier leave, they should get it, without a guilt trip too!

It shows in her response, that her union won't take care of her (doesn't that speak volumes) because she is only "one". Does she not get a bathroom? Does she not get a seperate place to get dressed? Does she have less rights?

 

[chief801]

You know what sarge ... I have been in this job for 19 years, and I have seen this situation before.. and it does make the employees feel guilty wether they are "pregnant" or they are sick or injured. The reality is, is that we think we are unique, but we are not. Most businesses and service agencies can't just "shut thier doors" or not "answer the phones", if they did they are out of business.

The type of response, (I am sure that chief did not mean it that way) does make females guilty. When a chief says "you know, if you go out and have a baby and asked for time off, the troops (guys) are going to have to be forced to work your shifts" is a poor response from any chief.

The response should be ... "take care of yourself and your family, we will make do with what we have, we can't wait until you get back."

The troops have to worked forced overtime for a multitude of reasons, such as military leave, sick leave, vacation leave, injury on duty, academy leave (need I go on?) That is the price of doing business in this "unique" profession. The troops signed onto the job they know that on occasion that they will be "forced" to work, and if they decide at some time in thier lives to have a family, kttref will be "forced" to work for them.

Hopefully, kttref will work in the profession until her retirement. If so, she will probably be an employee of the department for 30+ years. Is a twelve week "inconvenence" too much to ask, so she can care of her baby? If the "troops" are so shallow or inconsiderate that they get "touchy" about being "forced" to work for that reason, I think that there are more philisophical problems that need to be resolved.

I am not trying to be a jerk here, nor am I trying to attack you or the chief, but I think the attitudes that female officers get are outdated, we (all professional LEO's) need to recognize this and be fair. Oh btw, I, and our department, fully believe that male officers should be treated the same, and if they request to have thier leave, they should get it, without a guilt trip too!

It shows in her response, that her union won't take care of her (doesn't that speak volumes) because she is only "one". Does she not get a bathroom? Does she not get a seperate place to get dressed? Does she have less rights?

You have completely misunderstood my post. My position with all employees has always been take care of yourselves and your families first, we'll all still be here when you get back. That goes for extended illness, the birth of a child, or family deaths. The point I was trying to make (maybe it wasn't so clear) is that I think the FMLA is fair to all. Being able to leave the job for 3 months is a good thing. All I was saying is that without more resources, our department is hard pressed to have someone go out for longer than that, our budget just can't handle it. Heck, if I had the resources I wouldn't care if an officer wanted to take a year off. As I explained in another post, I allowed a female officer to accrue a TON of comp time so that she could stay home, get paid, and not burn all of her other leave time. In essence, we gave way more than the FMLA requires.

The whole issue isn't about not wanting to grant extended leave, it is about not having the ability to do so. Some departments just can't do it.

 

[westernmass]

The whole issue isn't about not wanting to grant extended leave, it is about not having the ability to do so. Some departments just can't do it.

I know what your saying, we had a military guy that was called for deployment, his military leave was for over a year. I called his commanding officer and told him that our troops weren't going to like being forced to work OT and our department "just can't do it" .. I didn't get much sympathy :-k

I fully understand where your coming from chief. Some departments "just can't do it" but more often its some departments "just don't want to do it"

I applaude you in taking care of your officers! Family, and the welfare of our officers, is very important in our department, it sounds like it is for you too!

I thinkI have had my fair share on the :sb: Thank you for letting my spout!

 

[Sarge31]

It shows in her response, that her union won't take care of her (doesn't that speak volumes) because she is only "one". Does she not get a bathroom? Does she not get a seperate place to get dressed? Does she have less rights?
I'm sorry, I don't understand your reference to the union not taking care of her. It isn't a union decision......the decision lies completely in the city/town's hands. FMLA allows for that.

 

[westernmass]

My only point about the union not taking care of her (her comment) was that the attitude in her department seems to be institutionalize. If her own union won't help her, you think the town will? I agree with you though, FMLA is between her and the town, but the union should take notice.

Thanks for allowing me to comment, I mean no offense to you or chief, I am only trying to support the sister in blue.