[drewpopo]

Anyone hear rumors of MSP leaving Devens in 2003?

 

[union1]

I herd the same, dont know tho. Any word as to if the DOD is going to be permanant over there?

 

[j809]

Spoke to a trooper today that works there and he heard from his LT that they will be there permanently, 12 troopers.

 

[Guest]

The DOD covers only the Federal areas of the Reserve Forces Training Area. The State Police cover all the residential areas and roads, businesses etc. now under state control.

 

[DoD102]

Yeah MSP is there for good. We were trying to get some of Devens' DoD guys to assist us with the air show this year. They have the same problem there we have here at Westover. Unless they deal with a military member, they have to turn all their arrests over to MSP. So, MSP is there to stay. Kind-a sucks! Makes work difficult.

Posted Sat Nov 13, 03:59:

Let me calrify that last post. By kind-a sucks I meant the part about turnong arrests over. Not about the MSP being there. Boy, I don't want to get that fire started, ya know?!

 

[DPD6860]

That previous post regarding that DEVENS DOD POLICE has the same problems as Westover DOD POLICE is wrong. We do not turn our arrest over to the State Police. We handle our own. When we arrest someone for example; and we do get a lot especially when we start running contractors as they come in, or when we are on a MV Stop. We then fax the warrant over to the district court and then transport the prisoner to them. We also handle all the AWOL/Apprehension in the Northeast Region. We also enforce Chp.90 on a federal citation known as the U.S. District Court Violation. All our cases go to federal court at Hanscom. We can assimilate a state charge if there is no Federal Statute to charge a person with. We are also sworn is as Middlesex County Deputy Sheriffs. Just to clear up a few things.

 

[dcs2244]

Well, talking about "sucks", My shift-mates and I got sick and tired of getting called to Westover Field for some drunk: we didn't witness the lemming driving, or do the FST to develope PC...but now we're supposed to arrest the shitbag and dedicate five hours to the booking and paperwork...

Hey, if you arrest and process your own stuff now, I'll shutup! But the scenario I described above lends to the "too many cooks spoil the broth" philosophy. If drunks are a problem on the field, then hire a police detail to deal with them...don't call us after the fact...and, yes, I've been called there for operators who I determined were not, in fact, OUI...and was perceived by the DOD/Apes as "blowing-them-off" because I wouldn't arrest the operator!

Sorry, I'm the guy going to court...my families reputation is on the line and I will not jeopordize my reputation with the court. :evil:

 

[DoD102]

hey dcs2244--I don't appreciate the apes remark. I retired as a municipal LEO after 21 years on the job and came here. I realize we have an issue here with jurisdiction. That goes back to some General pissing off the Chicopee Chief. I hate just as much as you having to call the troopers to handle my dirty laundry. I am more than capable of handling some shitbag drunk, disorderly puke, or just a plain asshole on a traffic stop. But what makes it worse is when we get a Trooper who's pissed about coming out to Westover Air Reserve Base and develops this mighter than thou attitude. We're all on the same team. And FYI my job title is GS083 Police Officer. I'm in the process now of trying to rectify the arrest issue with the SP Academy at New Braintree. Our DoD officers now go to a joint VA/DoD Federally recognized academy, and things will change. dcs2244, you should be helping, not throwing mud in my face.

To my DoD brother at Devens. I apologize for the post above. I was misinformed by my Captain. My hats off to you for handling your own. I have said for four years now that the Army and Navy respect their DoD cops more than the Air Force does. Any jobs there?

Posted Wed Nov 17, 01:25:

Just another FYI which I'll probably regret. I recieved the same attitude as the troopers tonight as I was stopped by a Chicopee officer. I hope that there are not that many narrow minded folks out there as these two guys. DoD have a unique job whether it's here, Devens, Newport etc. We have to be familiar with local, state, federal and UCMJ laws/regs. Has anyone else had this issue, where you as a DoD officer are looked upon as a second class citizen by fellow LEO's? :?:

 

[Mikey682]

I'm confused, maybe someone can fill me in...

If the DOD have sworn police officers at Westover, why would the MSP have to come and effect an arrest? I can see for prisoner transports and stuff, but I'm confused about the arrest thing.

And If they do hand over arrests to the MSP, why would the responding trooper worry about PC for the arrest? it isnt his arrest right? so no liability should fall on said trooper.

or am i just talking out of my ass :?:

 

[DoD102]

Hey Mikey682--DoD Police at Westover fall under the umbrella of the Air Force. The AF, more specifically the Air Force reserve, gives its bases, 12 of them across the US, only proprietary jurisdication. This is the same as landowners rights. We can arrest/apprehend military subjects, however, civilians can only be detained for the civil authorities. It sucks bad! Especially since this is a Reserve base, and the folks who work here are mostly civilians! We have to bother the troopers, who are busy enough dealing with their crap, to come to the base and take the case. I don't blame a trooper at all for being upset. If I don't see operation on an OUI, I'm not going to touch it either. The problem is compounded by the misconception that we are "just security guards." Some troopers, and CPD guys take great offense to us wearing a police patch. The image is changing here. We are hiring younger guys just off of active duty, sending our people to an academy, by the way dcs2244, if you're reading this too, I graduated from the 75th MPOC at Framingham in 1983. Sorry Mikey682. Anyway, I hope that clears it up a bit. It is very confusing, and frustrating for those of us who have to deal with it on a regular basis. Any more questions and I'll be glad to try to answer them.

 

[Mikey682]

Thanks Sarge,

I can understand a police officer or trooper to be upset in a situation like this, however it is an unavoidable burden. All law enforcement officers running into situations like this and get upset need to realize its not the officers fault he had to call you. Hell when I was a summer officer I once or twice got the feeling the Full Timers were not happy to back me up on calls or transport my arrests when I was on foot, and we were all on the same department!

Its the same when I get a citizen bitching at me about why certain laws suck and how cops should lighten up on certain things. It aint an argument for me pal, tell it to the guys you were too lazy to vote for.

If your a municipal officer responding to transport a college PD's arrest, or Statie at a Westover type scenario, I think you should consider the fact that the officer that called you is just as frustrated he cant do anything himself and dispises the stupid policy/statute that requires you to respond there and do his job. The bottom line is, same team!

 

[DOD6826]

Mr. DCS2244 I would like to say that I read your reply about DOD and I would like to say that I am sorry that you have to work for once in your life.... I am not here to cut down any Brother but MY GOD get real, I will say that Westover sounds like Devens was in the beginning. You have to understand that DOD Police are just defining their role in Law enforcement. When I got here about 2 years a go we had some problems like Westover but it only takes Management and their officers and surrounding towns to help out. You see here at Devens the MSP are great neighbors and are always there for us as well as we are there for them to Back them up. Do we cry about it HELL NO we are all here to do a job or do you remember that We are all on the same team to take dirt bags off the street. My guys help out with Shirley, Ayer and MSP. We work Details in AYER and help out when needed. As Rodney King said can't we all just get a long??? Your shift mates what the hell is a shift mate?? you in the Navy? or are you saying that your shift does not like to do Police work. Like I said I am not trying to start a war but get real, if you needed a back up I would be there, why because it is my job and you are a Brother officer. So instead of getting mad help change things. Here at Devens we have come a long way in the last year, We make our own arrest , transport to the court house , we have purchased a new BAT Machine which will be on line this winter. We have purchased 2 snow mobles, for patrols and arrest trespassers, We have a bike patrol now, My guys will be attending the Full Time Police Academy for Mass. at Fort Dix DOD police has Arrest powers throughout the state of NJ. listen you have to crawl before you walk. give those guys a break, remember one day you might be getting your ass kicked and the only back up you have might be a DOD officer. We will have your back....

 

[DoD102]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the support. Westover up until 1992, used to be self sufficiant. Then someone pissed someone else off, Air Force reserve Command didn't want to make waves with the local community/police, and away went our powers. I was here then also. I left in 95 to go back to a municipal PD, then retired in 2001. DoD is the best kept secret in LE, but we have our quirks to work out. Good job and congrats to the Devens crew for sticking to your guns and making change happen. Wish us luck here.

 

[Ranger2]

Thanks Sarge,

If your a municipal officer responding to transport a college PD's arrest, or Statie at a Westover type scenario, I think you should consider the fact that the officer that called you is just as frustrated he cant do anything himself and dispises the stupid policy/statute that requires you to respond there and do his job. The bottom line is, same team!

Amen Brother

 

[Guest]

Well said DOD6826, that is 100% on the line from my experiences at Devens.

 

[briand911]

I'm still confused about this but I am going to keep reading the post I think I am getting somewhere with this ...........

 

[Guest]

SARGE439,
No one wants to feel like a second class police officer. The only excuse I can find for that treatment is that many officers/troopers were former military. When thinking of the military one would think uniformity. Well, as many know, DOD does not really know what that word means. DOD Police is a byproduct. Some installations have DOD and they act like untrained security guards. Other installations have excellent ones. Hopefully, the overall DOD Police program is improving in their professionalism and standardized training. That seems to be the case as the installations rely less on MP and SF due to their growing combat support roles.

 

[DoD102]

That's correct MSP75. On active duty, both Army and AF, the bases are hiring DoD Police. The best thing that's come up for us is the joint academy with the VA Police. It will standardize the DoD, and give us more credibility. You are correct also when you say some DoD act like untrained guards, and some are very professional. I think alot changed after 9/11 including the role of federal police officers like FPS and now DoD. I believe Homeland Security and the DoD are finally seeing us as a large pool of bodies that they can draw from in the event of a national emergency. Hence the training, upgrades in equipment, hiring of younger guys etc. I would also like to add that not all troopers who come out here treat us like second class citizens. I was a little upset at dcs2244 at the time. On another note, I spoke with the Major at New Braintree today and the shot that we took at getting SSPO powers fell through. Has to do with coming under the umbrella of the military, and some agreement that the Commonwealth and Westover came to in the early 90's. We'd have to change the legislation. We all know how that usually goes. Anyway, thanks for the post and your thoughts.

 

[DOD6826]

Okay guys,
You are right on somethings which were posted, Some bases , Post, Have DoD police or DoD Security. When I came on board in 2001 I join to help do something to defend my Country. DoD was looking for manpower and had to hire in a hurry, when I came on we had some good guys and some really bad guys. Now that we are up and running we have more Good then bad, Where I am here at Devens, All my guys are Police Officers and Have been to school and have had at least 100 hrs or more of training a year. I have sent my guys to every school possible that comes across my desk. In Feb I will be sending one of my Guys to the full Time Mass Police Academy. Our Sister Post Ft. Dix sends all of our officers to the NJ state Police Academy and they have Arrest Powers thoughout the State of NJ. here in Mass you know that will never happen. I am working on something right now that will give us more powers of arrest. Like I stated before This department is only 2 years old here in Devens. I need more manpower and more Equipment, But 99% of my guys are the best and I hate to say I might loose some of them to the locals... For myself I am here to stay, I have worked or 15 years on the Road as a local and a county police officer. This is a great place to work and a great bunch of guys to work with. So when you talk about DOD POLICE look at each Post or Base. just like you look at each Department. Not all Departments are Bad and not all DOD Departments are bad. :lol:

 

[Mikey682]

Does Devens post police jobs on that www.usajobs.opm.gov website, or should I be looking somewhere else?