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Critics Say Proposal Takes Advantage of Town

POLICE COMPUTER PAY
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Survey: Extra Pay For Computer Use?
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pdf: Natick Patrol Officers Contract 2007-2010
pdf: Natick Patrol Officers Pay Schedule Through June 2010
pdf: Natick Police Lieutenant/Sergeant Contract 2005-07
pdf: Natick Police Sergeant Pay Scale Through June 2007
pdf: Natick Lieutenant Pay Scale Through June '07
Web: Framingham Police Collective Bargaining Agreement
Web: Framingham Town Meeting Debate
Web: Newton Police Collective Bargaining Agreement

BOSTON -- Residents in Framingham are talking about a new cost to the town courtesy of the local police union, which says officers need to be paid more because they use computers.

Debate broke out at the last Framingham Town Meeting after members were asked to approve extra pay for the police officers whose union said $41,000 a year would settle a its claim that a new requirement to file reports on a computer was an unlawful change in working conditions.
"Do we not allocate this money to them and give them crayons?" quipped Steve Orr, another Town Meeting member.

The computer stipend would be paid in addition to the extra pay all Framingham officers already get for defibrillator use, fingerprinting and photography.

Town Meeting member Jim Rizoli was part of the majority who voted to shoot down the proposal.

"It's taking advantage of the goodness of the people and the town to pay you for something you should already know how to do," Rizoli said. "Think about it. What police officer today does not know how to use a computer?"

In nearby Natick, Mass., however, officers get a 2 percent annual stipend in "recognition of the advanced technological skills Natick patrol officers possess".

Newton police also get paid an extra $1,215 a year plus two hours of computer training at overtime pay.

"It just doesn't pass the straight-face test," said Michael Widmer, president of the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation. "Obviously, they shouldn't be paying any time. But it's particularly egregious given incredible fiscal pressures the state's facing and cities and towns are facing."

Team 5 Investigates tried to talk to the union's attorney, police and the town's lawyer, but no one wanted to talk on camera because they're still negotiating.

The Massachusetts Police Association said stipends are common, but a Team 5 review of police contracts found computer stipends seem to be isolated to Metrowest.

"There's an increased training," said Jim Machado, MPA president. "It's not only doing the reports. It's the record-keeping and the retrieval and things of that nature which go into the total package, the total technological package."

Widmer said taxpayers should be wary.

"Police officers have a critical job and they get paid for that," Widmer said. "But these extra creative ways of padding the paycheck really are not appropriate, and undercut the bond with the taxpayers."

The police union, however, has a different take.

"When these jobs become where the ability to earn money isn't commensurate with the dangers and sacrifice that they're families make, they'll be a shortfall of police throughout the commonwealth," Machado said.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/17806226/detail.html
 

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Town Settles With Cops Over Computer Use

Framingham Will Stay Have To Pay Extra $40K

BOSTON -- Framingham Town Meeting have voted to end a dispute with the town's police officers over the use of computers.

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Last year Framingham started requiring officers to file reports via computers but its police union sued over the issue, saying the requirement was an unlawful change in the officers' working conditions.
Now, however, Town Meeting members voted to approve a new contract with the police union and, as part of the agreement, the union will drop its demand for arbitration on the computer issue.

The contract does, however, increase the officers' hazardous duty pay by 1 percent, which will still cost the town $40,000 a year, which was about the same amount the union was asking for as a stipend for the computer use.

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http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/17828291/detail.html
 

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Negotiators should learn from this and from Peabody. The media always blows this shit out of proportion and then the sheep all have an opinion. What i love is the teachers never get this kind of scrutiny and they have every extra pay duty you can imagine; cafeteria stipend, recess stipend, book reading stipend, I teach the dumb class stipend, parking lot duty, hall monitor, the list goes on and on.

Its sucks but you have to label your items politically correct. Any new items should have some of the following wording Hazardous duty pay, Terrorist stipends, Homeland security stipends,community policing stipends, task force stipends all these are accepted politically correct ways to ask for money.
 

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If computers are making things harder, some is doing their job wrong, I would know, I'm a programmer. Police need to be paid more int he first place, but for totally different reasons. What the need to solve their compute problems is to hire a few geeks and pay them just to maintain the system and help show officers how to use it when there are questions.

I'm saying that if (the people designing the computer systems) are doing it right they (the police) should be happy that they have an easier way to do their jobs. Obviously either the computers suck cock, which is someone else's fault and then the officers are totally right to be demanding compensation; or the officers int hat town are just trying to get paid fairly, and having to go out on a limb to do it- when they should NOT have to.
 

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If computers are making things harder, some is doing their job wrong, I would know, I'm a programmer. Police need to be paid more int he first place, but for totally different reasons. What the need to solve their compute problems is to hire a few geeks and pay them just to maintain the system and help show officers how to use it when there are questions.
So now we need trailer hitches to tow around those tiny black and white Volkswagons behind the black and whites Fords?
 

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Ya right! Hire computer geeks at a premium to have access to LEO sensitive issues, instead of a few hours and dollars of training for the officers. I don't know about most folks, but between IMC and other older systems, Iv'e needed training and still learning all the time.
 

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I think we ALL should get paid more for using freaking CJIS/LEAPS. Which is a dinosour. Now cjis web in a car can be a pain. You got minimize a screen to open up another. That can be a pain. Log in.
 

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Everything I learned about computers, I learned by using them (and asking questions of pencil-necks)...no one ever offered any training: "...there they are...use them." It's so nice to work on an OUI report for X hours, only to do something wrong and have your effort 'disappear' and have to start all over...
 

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Everything I learned about computers, I learned by using them (and asking questions of pencil-necks)...no one ever offered any training: "...there they are...use them." It's so nice to work on an OUI report for X hours, only to do something wrong and have your effort 'disappear' and have to start all over...
It pisses coders off as much as end users when it's actually glitches.

I'm not familiar with the systems we're talking about but it's one thing or the other... Either the people who made it were cheap and designed something that runs in windows or an apple OS instead of a proprietary system, and as a result the normal quirkyness of modern OS's causes crashes noone can predict, avoid, etc; which is retarded of them. Or they DID design their own system, and it blows because they failed, in which case it's just how shitty life is in general.

Part of the problem there is that half of techies are also druggies and or hackers (terms used loosely) so it would be a big pain in the ass to have a real IT department for the police since it would be such an easy leak. Think Jurassic Park you know?

So in the end, you definitely need to have some contingency for training officers because nothing is ever perfect... and considering the amount of money, it doesn't seem to me like such a big deal. Slow news day maybe?

 

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No truer words kid... no truer words.

Servers go down, lines go down, someone at Verizon thinks it's funny to pull our plug, you name it!

And you DON'T know the botched abortion known as RAMS/RAMSII - that it eats reports as the cookie monster does cookies, that it's often "down". Why? I dunno, neither does MIS - but I can assure you, THOSE programmers at the MSP aren't toking.
I think i feel your pain every time the "lubrication" apple needs to the ram into their ram slots (wtf???) ruins a mac's ram conveniently right as it exits warranty and I have to fuck the whole thing up taking it apart to replace it, when the thing should have lived at least another five years without mechanical failure. When the customer calls apple their representation says "MMMMYESSSSS it Seeeeems you random access memorizers have reached the end of their reccomended life and failed... myesssss... it happens all the time... i'm sure our technology simply isn't advanced enough to make it last any longer at allllll..." Of course, this is bullshit, and the consumer gobbles it up and buys another mac thinking it's just a life expense that can't be avoided. Dell is guilty too, some of their monitors all die from the same problem and just stay in production that way for months. They make them cheap but still profit, and people buy new ones when they (totally preventably) fail.

Master Plan:

1) Invent system that seems amazing and new and better and incredible FUCK YEAH you ALL NEED IT or you will DIE or be UNPOPULAR. YOU MIGHT EVEN BECOME UGLY IF YOU DONT BUY OUR PRODUCT.

2) Purposefully put in something that's easy to fix but completely impossible to figure out unless you coded it. Switch a colon/bracket somewhere and hide something so it has a 2% chance of failure.

3) Profit.

4) People realize the system is broken in some (unbeknown to them, purposeful) way and hire you or a friend like you to fix it.

5) Continue working, getting paid to make patches. Each time go back and purposefully fix two things but fuck up a third.

6) Profit until you're bored or fired. This may take several years if everyone else you work with is in on it, or just lazy. In the end, all the problems will be solved. You continue using the old, flawless system, and subject the public to....

7) .... step 1.
 

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Back to my orignal statement

"WOW a 19 year old computer nerd telling us how it is."
It was actually a large and elaborate joke. I'm sure in the real world all the time I spend trying to fix shit that's mysteriously broken is just the result of people not being perfect.

Hence, back to topic, I would definitely vote to pass a movement to pay officers a bit more for their tech aches and pains.

P.S. I have a girlfriend and in college chicks dig hard-to-get. Trust me it's not bad.
 

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What I wouldn't give to be 19 and THAT smart.... again.... :wow:
I wasn't serious lol. Truthfully, I get very little actual program work done. Still learning on that end of things. I spend most of my time fixing broken DC jacks because idiots yank them out too hard. That and re-installing windows. Driver support. Easy shit, you get it; it's a sweet deal for me.
 
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Part of the problem there is that half of techies are also druggies and or hackers (terms used loosely) so it would be a big pain in the ass to have a real IT department for the police since it would be such an easy leak. Think Jurassic Park you know?
Can't we just train officers to do this? Have the IT department populated by older cops looking to get off the streets of young guys looking to work at a desk or intradepartmental. I'd rather give Lt. Winters here a nice raise for learning to debug the system or reattach the field terminal that was just kicked by the angry emo kid your trying to arrest.

On second thought..they don't pay any of you guys enough for the stuff you have to put up with on a daily basis.. and I'm not just saying that to get thanx.
 

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"Part of the problem there is that half of techies are also druggies and or hackers (terms used loosely) so it would be a big pain in the ass to have a real IT department for the police since it would be such an easy leak. Think Jurassic Park you know?"

That all depends on how you go about it. I believe the feds have full-time IT, and I don't seem to hear too much about their info getting leaked out. It's all about background checks and hiring criteria. I've worked in tech support for five years and have met exactly zero technicians with a drug or "hacking" problem. Those people wouldn't last long, I suspect. Then again, i've always worked for schools or big corporations. Are you thinking of the "techies" you hire off a craigslist ad, or a flyer that's perforated at the bottom, so you can tear off the phone number? ;)
 

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Back to my orignal statement

"WOW a 19 year old computer nerd telling us how it is."
Back in the day, I was taught to spot a stolen car without having to sit on the side of the road running plates.

The only thing computers have done is to expand the use of information. But it's also made for some of the laziest cops I've ever met.

Get your ass out there and do police work without being a "computer cop", and by the way, for you new guys, get rid of the cell phone while you're talking to your girlfriends.

You might actually spot something that as a cop, society expects you to see...
 
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