Complex Law Enforcement Firearm Question! Attention Gun Nuts | MassCops

Complex Law Enforcement Firearm Question! Attention Gun Nuts

Discussion in 'Just Shootin' The Breeze' started by Jake5-0, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Jake5-0

    Jake5-0 Guest

    Good Afternoon Everyone!
    Question:
    Someone is a Law Enforcement Officer in MA and falls under the LEOSA Act, and can carry in all 50 states and has the appropriate identification.
    That person only has an FID Card in Massachusetts, is it possible to have a handgun transferred to you privately? I know permits to purchase can be used to purchase a handgun with an FID as long as it is not taken out of the home. But under LEOSA you would be able to lawfully carry according to federal and state law. Does anyone know if recording the sale on the gun portal, it would reject you because one person has an FID and the other a LTC?

    If anyone could give feedback thanks!
    This is law enforcement related, hence why I am posting here rather than Northeast Shooters
     
  2. MPD703

    MPD703 Subscribing Member

    The short answer is that you need an LTC in MA. While you may be able to buy a gun without a LTC the problem in this situation is that the Mass regulations for LEOSA qualification require the separated officer to have a MA LTC in order to take the LEOSA qualification course. Without proof of qualification you cant carry under LEOSA.
     
  3. mpd61

    mpd61 Retired Fed, Active Special

    1. Permits to purchase are no longer a "thing" in Massachusetts. FID is long guns ONLY for any reason. You cannot lawfully possess any handgun ANYWHERE including your domicile on an FID.
    2. As stated above for LEOSA you have to have active or retired LEO CREDENTIALS. I have to ask how said person is a "qualified law enforcement" type for LEOSA, yet hasn't got an LTC? Kinda silly.......BTW is this person still on the job, or retired?
     
    j809, CCCSD, Goose and 1 other person like this.
  4. Jake5-0

    Jake5-0 Guest

    Thank you for your response, I forgot to mention the person would be an "active status LEO".
     
  5. Jake5-0

    Jake5-0 Guest

    Thank you for you input, I forgot to mention that the LEOSA would be "ACTIVE STATUS". My friend just moved into the state, where his laws did not require him to be licensed, but he only applied for the FID.
     
  6. pahapoika

    pahapoika Subscribing Member

    i carried a sidearm everyday for years and never had a LTC.
    Living in Boston and having a pistol permit was not an option :rolleyes:

    The DOC gave us paper permits to carry any issued department firearms. That was challenged after one of our transportation officers was pulled over in his P/V driving home.

    Now anyone with a "take home" firearm has to have a valid LTC. Institution officers transporting inmates still carry on their badge. Mass. firearm laws are insane and that's the way our government likes it. ;)
     
    Joel98 and mpd61 like this.
  7. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    Maybe he lost his LtC for life for a guilty OUI and carries only under the badge ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    mpd61 likes this.
  8. 38bigblock

    38bigblock MassCops Member

    Bud, LEOSA is for carrying firearms. You need a Class A LTC to purchase high capacity firearms in MA. Don’t read into it. The system may allow it to pass, but then you can be jammed up. I wouldn’t play games in this state. You’ll do time. If he’s an ACTIVE LEO, Full-Time, no weird sidebar clauses.. then have him just apply for an LTC.

    What your doing is looking for a loophole. The intent of the law is for cops to carry in other states. Not for people who don’t qualify for an LTC to get a firearm anyway.
     
    HuskyH-2, Danusmc0321 and CCCSD like this.
  9. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

    From what I have read on numerous websites, including Mass.gov This is a federal law that supersedes all state and local laws. You do not require a LTC in any state in the US. This applies to active and retired law enforcement officers. The only restriction is the type of ammo carried when retired. You may also need to lower magazine capacity.
    https://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf
     
    Joel98 likes this.
  10. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    Maybe he has an OUI guilty conviction


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

    They wrote it to very inclusive. The ability to arrest or apprehend, which is very broad. Even some states with prison officers have the ability to pursue and arrest to a limited degree. The intent is to provide enhanced public and officer safety. It also allows you to carry your own personal weapon and not the one provided when your off duty. It’s a real education reading up on all of this. I told a friend of mine who has served for 30 years, she was not aware of it, as it offers multi state carry and you do not need a locally purchased LTC.
     
    mpd61 and Joel98 like this.
  12. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

  13. MPD703

    MPD703 Subscribing Member

    LEOSA exempts qualified active and retired LEO's from state requirements to have a LTC. It doesn't allow anyone to purchase a firearm or even ammunition. There are some weird situations that can happen when you mix the state and federal law. So a federal agent in MA could by a gun directly from a manufacturer, shipped to the agency, without going through a FFL or needing an LTC. So it is possible to be a MA resident and carry on LEOSA without an LTC but that will only last for 12 months. Last I checked the CMR on this in order to get your required LEOSA qualification you need, in MA to have a LTC. So, in the end, if you are going to live in this state and take advantage of LEOSA you need the LTC.
     
    38bigblock and Goose like this.
  14. msw

    msw MassCops Member

    What is a CMR? So if a LEOSA compliant and credentialed retired cop from another state moved to Massachusetts, could he not just "carry" on his LEOSA credentials, without getting a MA LTC? Where is it written in Massachusetts law that he would need to get an LTC? What if he moved to Boston? Would they even issue an LTC to a retired cop from another state moving into the city of Boston?
     
  15. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound MassCops Member

    Code of Massachusetts Regulations. 515 CMR 6.03 dictates the process that LEOSA instructors must follow.

     
  16. USM C-2

    USM C-2 MassCops Member

    Unless he goes back to his state of retirement and qualifies there every year, to their standards...
     
    Goose and Joel98 like this.
  17. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

    From all I’ve read and those links posted here as long as you retired in good standing, have a photo ID from your employer, and have up to date training than you should be fine. You may have to ensure the proper magazine capacity (10 max), and ensure your weapons are approved in mass.
     
  18. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

    Mass Laws:
    Massachusetts law about guns and other weapons
    Specifics Regarding LEOSA in Mass.
    https://www.mass.gov/files/document...25.237168376.1569964100-1729201430.1569964100

     
  19. Joel98

    Joel98 MassCops Member

    I know some active MA cops who don’t have LTC’s, there are depts that don’t require it.
     
  20. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

    LEOSA states it’s not necessary to have a LTC in any state, but it’s best to check with the state you plan to move to or travel through. Mass issues ID cards as do other states for a retired LEO. You do have to ensure you carry a weapon and one with the approved capacity according to state law.
    The state/agency you retire from must provide an ID stating your retirement and status. Some states are not abiding by LEOSA, but it is a federal law. It has been revised twice. And is currently waiting on another for review.
    LEOSA state by state: Why are retired police officers having problems? - Daigle Law Group
    Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia
     
  21. MPD703

    MPD703 Subscribing Member

    LEOSA exempts you from having to have an LTC in the state where you happen to be provided that meet the requirements of the act. There are several problems and this is where the confusion comes in. There is no requirement under the law that agencies issue retired ID cards. There have been a bunch of lawsuits and so far all of them have been decided that an agency is under no obligation to issue anything. Same thing with qualification. The standard is that you have to qualify with the same type of gun as you are carrying but there is no obligation on the part of an agency to provide that. So in MA, like in many other states, regulations were issued to set out the process to handle the qualifications. That is where, in MA, the get you. If you, as a MA resident who is otherwise LEOSA qualified, you have to go to a certified instructor to do a LEOSA qualification and need an LTC. Of course under MA law you have to have a LTC to by a handgun anyway. As far as magazine capacity it seems that retirees are covered under the exception in MA law when it comes to mags which hold over 10 rounds.
     
    pahapoika likes this.
  22. MPD703

    MPD703 Subscribing Member

    It will be interesting to see what happens with the LEOSA reform bill that was filed this year. It is supposed to cut out a lot of the gun free zone stuff to allow LEOSA retirees to carry in those area.
     
    pahapoika and Joel98 like this.
  23. pctony

    pctony MassCops Member

    I agree with everything stated with the exception of the LTC as LEOSA supersedes the state law to require a LTC, provided of course that state is not tied up in a legal issue with it. To date only Hawaii has raised an issue. NJ put up a fuss and lost in court.
    Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act - Wikipedia
    All states are excluded, if you qualify under LEOSA. You do not need a LTC.
     
    mpd61 likes this.
  24. msw

    msw MassCops Member

    With the Dems in control of the House, what is likely to happen with this LEOSA reform bill is........ nothing. Interestingly, this same - or similar - bill was proposed in the last Congress, when the Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate. And nothing was done with it then either. (Which was really unfortunate, because I'm pretty sure President Trump would have signed it.)
     
  25. msw

    msw MassCops Member

    I guess I am pretty lucky, as the Dept I retired from not only issues the appropriate ID, but allows its retirees to do the qualification shoot at the Dept range, free of charge, once a year. They even give us the ammo!

    pctony, I know about the mag capacity issue, but could you expound upon your statement "ensure your weapons are approved in Massachusetts"? Is there some "list" that Massachusetts has, that I have to check before I travel to MA with a certain make/model of pistol? I understand there may be restrictions on what pistols you can BUY in MA, but if you already own it, and are just traveling to MA with it, is there some restriction on which makes and models of pistols you can "carry"?

    And one other quick question for you smart folks while we're on this topic: Are Massachusetts retired LEOs exempt from the over 10 round mag capacity restriction? And if yes, what is the MGL section that explains this? I am wondering if the exemption is worded in such a way as it would apply to on-duty or retired LEOs from another state, who happened to be traveling to or in Massachusetts? I usually just carry my trusty old 8-shot S&W M3913 when I travel, to avoid the hassle of the "high-capacity mag ban" restrictions in many East Coast jurisdictions...... but I have often wondered about whether there is an exemption in the MGLs to the 10 rd mag restriction for out-of-state retired cops, because I do return to Massachusetts for visits a couple times a year.
     

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