Changes possibly ahead for MSP Academy | Page 2 | MassCops

Changes possibly ahead for MSP Academy

Discussion in 'State Police' started by trel, Apr 7, 2006.

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  1. Killjoy

    Killjoy Zombie Hunter

    The term "student officer" in itself is interesting...it implies that you are already a police officer, but just merely in training. The FBI uses a similar title; "agent in training". The MSP calls the persons attending its academy "recruits" or "trainees"...they are not given the privilege of calling themselves "trooper" till the day they pin on the badge. Just an interesting comparison.
     
  2. MVS

    MVS Chapter 90 Enforcer

    I remember at the graduation of the 78th RTT, the class speaker made reference to one of the DI's (forgot his name), saying "Anyone who has met Trooper XXX has met the Devil himself"... " but he also went on saying that that Trooper was also the guy that would take recruits into another room to call home to check on a sick little one.

    An MSP graduation is a treat in itself and an awesome experience just to watch and listen to. It's also where I heard by far one of the best lines, "Fight like the 3rd monkey trying to get on Noah's Ark"
     
  3. spunk639

    spunk639 MassCops Member

    The MSP doesn't get it, it is not the USMC and Troopers are not at war with the citizens of Massachusetts. They have been very lucky, but how long will they continue to gamble, do you think that when some recruit drops dead, because a Trp. who thinks he or she is R. Lee Emry or Nicholson in a Few Good Gen goes overboard, that the AG or AUSA isn't going to show other academies as a standard? WTF. The days of training like this are over, yeah it is wrong that they are, but we're in the minority thinking it should go back to this. Did it produce better cops, yes. The standards were harder, yes. People who didn't belong weren't on the job,yes. But today we live in a soft, pansy, Oprah, Starbucks double latte soft mochaito cream world. Not too long ago it was coffee cream or black. Not any more, this state is left of the left of Kerry and Dean are you kidding me. Politicians the elected voice want a soft, PC, multi cultural, diverse kinder and gentler policing community, they've won.
     
  4. SinePari

    SinePari Needs more complaints

    Yeah, so it is up to US to dig our heels in and protect what we feel is best for the department. It is not wise to GIVE UP, and say "OK Oprah, you win. America is now a FUZZY-BUNNY, TOUCHY-FEELY, DON'T UPSET ANYBODY country. And now the MSP, along with 90% of other departments in the US have college campus-style training. Classes include, sexual harassment, workplace etiquette, grooming standards, communication skills when speaking with motorists who have been unfairly targeted by these menacing ATMs (Armed Ticket Machines)."

    Do not fall victim to the faux-threat of falling backwards in training. It is an ill-concieved notion made up in our own minds that the big dogs (DA, AUSA, et al) will get their hands in the mix. I doubt they themselves give a rats ass about what happens there as long as their constituents (not the Herald) feel nothing is wrong.
     
  5. bbelichick

    bbelichick Moderator Staff Member

    Most State Police in the country, including several in this area (CT, RI, NJ, NY) have extremely tough, military style Academies. That is NOT going to change.
     
  6. SGT_GRUNT_USMC

    SGT_GRUNT_USMC Subscribing Member

    The MA State Police may not be at war with the citizens of Massachusetts but they, along with police officers everywhere are at WAR with criminals and terrorists every day.YOU may live in a "soft, pansy, Oprah world" I DON'T and I refuse to give in to political correctness.That's what's wrong with this country.Everyone wants to be "politically correct" and is worried about offending anyone, including criminals.F*ck em
    Do what's right.
     
  7. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    Municipal academies are too easy and too many pussies that have no business of wearing the badge make it because the council works for the Chiefs. The academies need to be somewhat tougher and more hands-on and see who really doesn't cut it. Maybe do 22 weeks of tough academy curriculum and then 4 months under intense FTO supervision and then another 10-12 weeks in the academy. Something has to change as too many people are breezing through the municipal academies. There are some top notch academies in MAss, Lowell,MBTA,Boston and Weymouth. Too many people graduate from the academies and decide they don't want to be police officers. To MSP's credit, how many people that graduated an RTT decided they don't want to be cops, it's not for them. But the fact is that municipal academies will get even easier if the Mass Chiefs have their way, which will be strictly acadmic through community colleges. The end result, alot of new officers that will get hurt on the streets or get someone else hurt. Remember people, this is a job where you can get MURDERED. That's what recruits should have instilled in them.
     
  8. Killjoy

    Killjoy Zombie Hunter

    I guess the body armor I strap on, the pistol and shotgun I load before my shift is for show? Anyone who thinks that any day in the working life of a cop is NOT a day at war, has never worn the badge or worked a day on the job. Listen to one of my favorite quotes about policing:

    "The romance of police activity keeps in some sense before the mind the fact the civilization itself is the most sensational of departures and the most romantic of rebellions. By dealing with the unsleeping sentinels who guard the outposts of society, it tends to remind us that we live in an armed camp, making war with a chaotic world, and the the criminals, the children of chaos, are nothing but the traitors within our gates..."
    GK Chesterton, The Defendant
    -From the front cover of Character and Cops

    What liberals forget is that our society, a society of laws, is not the norm for the world, but the exception. Don't believe me? Travel to Rwanda and ask the 300,000 dead, killed at a faster rate than the holocaust. Wander over to Kosovo and ask some Serbs how well they've been treated in the last decade. For most of human history, the only law was might makes right...there were some exceptions, democratic Athens comes to mind. Our society only exists because the military protects us from external threats, and the police protect us from ourselves. Protect us from surrendering to the caveman-like base instincts that lurk in all of us. Are they perfect? Of course not...but they try their best. Understanding, empathy and sympathy are all noble emotions...but there are people in the world who only understand force, and there has to be men and women willing to stand up to them. Living under the blanket of protection that most Americans do, it is easy to despise the sheepdogs that guard them, and forget sometimes, they have to be mean to do their job. People should realize that we live in a harsh world and in order to better prepare the sheepdogs who will eventually guard them, tough methods have to be used. It is nice? No...but ours is an unforgiving profession at arms, and it doesn't long suffer fools or weakness.

    Sorry, didn't mean to preach...
     
  9. copcop

    copcop MassCops Member

    One quote I always liked is:



    There is no "nice" way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect.

    The police are our bodyguards, our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we're too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our face. We want them to "take care of the problem." We just don't want to see how its done. Charles Webb, Ph.d.,
    CSU, Long Beach, CA
     
  10. spunk639

    spunk639 MassCops Member

    First I am no liberal, second I've been on the job long enough to know what is worth it and what isn't. Strap on all the guns and gadgets you want, you only have two hands. There comes a point where you give what you get, what most cops in this state get is don't do anything. Sure it would be great to work, but what for to get sued or brought on charges and some $hitbag can have my house and pension. Right, I'll do very little and do it very well, you can dig your heels in all day and bang your head on the wall, go right ahead at the end of the week our pay will be the same. I'll answer my radio calls and do the minimum expected barely and do it begrudgingly, and still make as much as you go getters, in fact keep at'em it's great to watch you real cops, have wing dings and burn out, lose your families and live back at home with your parents at 40. More details and overtime for me, and I'll do as little as I can. Lock up the world, chase all the cars and at the end of day feel great, until you start paying through the nose for it. After about 10 minutes on the job if you think it's about policing and working hard............I am laughing already. Like the young guys in my squad who lock up everybody OC people and do 26's and uses of force 3 hours after shift, have a blast. I could give 2 shitz, I won't arrest unless I absolutely have to, or I am under a legal obligation to, driving with blinders on and ignoring most stuff you see is much better than being super cop.:up_yours:
     
  11. bbelichick

    bbelichick Moderator Staff Member

  12. irish937

    irish937 MassCops Member

    Spunk, while I do understand where you're coming from, your attitude sucks. I, too, was very idealistic when I started this job. I like to think that view has turned into a healthy, realistic attitude at this point in my career. Think you have it bad? Trust me, someone else has it worse. You can always quit and try punching a clock, or doing some manual labor. If you knew your job as well as you imply, you would understand that it is VERY difficult to "lose your house or pension" if you are acting in good faith. If the "Go Getters" are doing something wrong, it is your job as a senior and more experienced officer to guide them in the right direction. No, you are not a babysitter if that's what you are thinking. You are however, supposed to be a role model. That goes for every aspect of your life. As for what you say about living with your parents when you are 40. I know where you are going with that. We are our own worst enemies with regard to that (too much OT, details and/or partying). Each individual officer must decide what is important to him/her. If you have (or want) a family, you have to find a balance. Some fail to do this and may end up in the particular situation you speak of. Being a cop, in any capacity (state, county, local or federal), is the best job in the world. LIKE ANY OTHER JOB, it has it's drawabacks . You should think back and remember how it felt the first time you put that uniform on. If you didn't get that "tingle", then you are in the wrong job. I certainly hope by your response that you are VERY close to retirement. Attitudes like your's are poisonous and can infect an entire department. You are a fourteen percenter.
     
  13. spunk639

    spunk639 MassCops Member

    Please don't tell me about "good faith" and other idealistic legal terms that at one point meant protection. I can think of many officers throughout the 80's 90's and now, who acted in "good faith." Brighton Car Chase (80's) Mission Hill Shooting 1975, didn't get resolved until mid 1980's cops lost their shirts city paid big. Now the city limits indemnification. As far as helping the new guys. They come out of the academy and know more than you, or so they think, better yet when you try to give them a little advice they tell you they'll do it their way. Yeah I loved this job, spent many a night in an ER because of it. But I'm not foolish enough to think the following:

    1. A boss will support your actions if the suspect is injured, property is damaged, or you needed to use force to effect an arrest.
    2. That the city or town will support you for doing your job(arresting people, working etc) the city will complain to your bosses how people won't buy property if arrests are up.
    3. That they actually want you to be a police officer.
    4. That your guilty unitl proven innocent as a cop. Unlike MSP when your 303 or involved here, your treated like a suspect, read your rights and not given a replacement gun for the one you used.
    5. The the flunkies at headquarters if you by chance do your job and the Globe gets wind of it reveal every aspect of your life to the paper. Shameful but done to Tommy Rose and John Mulligan, both heroes.
    6. A PC who fires you for working, or being honest thank god he went to England and a certain Capt. has won again, or better yet the bafoon Chief in Quincy who makes him look like Joe Friday.

    No my attitude isn't poisionous it is realistic. Police officers that work in the climate we operate in today are taking risks that they can't financially cover or get support for. Am I a 14 percenter as you say, no I am not I am more of a negative 5 percenter, the city could burn down around me, if Iam not sent I do not care. I know of a kid on my job that was given a call for a shooting at 498 ........Rd well it wasn't there, unlike me who would have missled it as unfounded, numb nuts goes to 849........Rd and finds a shooting and a victim and saves the guys life. When he got there he offended somebody and got a tab, he then got tabbed by a PS who said he went off District and found the mess. Got stuck in the house for weeks booking, and a write up. Yeah motives me to work. Sorry I have a bit of a way until retirement and plan to do less and less on the way there .:up_yours:
     
  14. Rock

    Rock Undefined

    Spunk,
    Not only are you unsafe for your coworkers you're unsafe for the community. Would you want a guy like you protecting your family? You're a total bag of Sh** and you don't belong on the job. I say that not in an insulting way....I think you know it's the truth. We can all dwell on the neg. for ANY job. Have some respect for yourself. If you hate your department then screw 'em...have some pride in yourself. I don't know if you have kids but if you do, would they be proud of you? If it's that bad quit and open a position for one of those guys you hate so much that want to work. Go find that perfect job were everyone backs everything you do and there is no liability and you will never get in trouble. When you get there please let us all know where it is so I can go there too. Your burned out so move on.
     
  15. j809

    j809 Subscribing Member

    If you don't like your job, there's the f*cking door, leave and there will be 100 qualified people waiting for your spot, no sweat, see ya. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to be a cop.
     
  16. SinePari

    SinePari Needs more complaints

    No doubt. Quit you frickin whining, go work for Whackenhut, and let some 22 y/o son of a bitch who's hungry for the job take your spot. BOO HOO.

    Do think our service members are completely satisfied with their job when they're minding their own business and a friggin IED blows the shit out of their convoy in Iraq? Yet, they do not complain like you do.

    GET THE HELL OFF THE JOB
     
  17. regnar1194

    regnar1194 MassCops Member

    Don't bother trying to preach to this bag, he in all likelihood was a bag before he got the job and now lives under the premise that the job made him the way he is. Screw him and look at him with the contempt he deserves. Either that or he is just another shit stirrer getting his jollies on the keyboard. Spunk in all likelihood you are a miserble human being anyway on or off the job, so like they say the best revenge against filth like you is living well, enjoy your misery you bag of shit.
     
  18. DoD102

    DoD102 MassCops Member

    Theres wishful thinking BartA1. Money talks, politics rule the whole career field. Sucks no matter where you are. Things sure have changed over the last 25 years!
     
  19. SOT

    SOT Thread Killa

    You are an asshole, that's about all.

     
  20. jeh2005

    jeh2005 New Member

    The original comments to this posting centered on how the Herald is such a horrible rag, exploitive, political hacks, etc. Funny how now the Herald has seemingly redeemed themselves to many of you in posting the story about the Sheriff's boat flotilla (another thread). It's an interesting study to see how people contradict themselves to suit their arguments....from National Enquirer to Wall Street Journal.

    I have no basis for judging the story on the academy, but I am sure there is room for improvement. In my personal experience, the media can twist a little nothing into a big shit storm, so who knows if there is any validity to anything that they publish....MSP, Sheriff's, BPD, or otherwise.
     
  21. Killjoy

    Killjoy Zombie Hunter

    Go find some sheriff's sign to hold up...your posts are nothing but pro-sheriff drivel anyway.
     
  22. jeh2005

    jeh2005 New Member

    Blah, blah, blah. Don't quote my entire post though. Ignore the part that actually supports that this article could be BS and the one thing you pride yourself on isn't actually imploding.

    Ironically, while you were posting this, I was posting something most would consider anti-sheriff.
     
  23. Killjoy

    Killjoy Zombie Hunter

    I don't think even the most pro-sheriff crony could defend the ridiculous "marine unit" Middlesex is cooking up.
     
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