must have a bachelor's? for a campus job? really?? will they pay the candidate 60 grand a year? seems like they are asking a lot. do they pay like the major boston schools? anyone know?

 

must have a bachelor's? for a campus job?

Yeah I guess campus guys don't really need a college degree. After all they only unlock doors and give students rides.

Wow...

 

I was thinking the same thing Nite

 

relax and don't over react! if you look, you will see I have been one of the biggest supporters for CPO's in Worcester County for about 13 years. What I inferred was it is ridiculous to require a Bachelor's if you will not pay top dollar. Not many places require a 4 year degree because they only pay a low salary to their PD guys. They are shutting out some seriously talented people with that requirement.

if they pay their guys like cops with Bachelor's Degrees, then my point is moot, but as far as I know, the only schools that are paying top grade are in Boston.

I never said anything bad about CPO's guys...I started out as one myself...don't take the slightest comment regarding the field as an insult. it was more of an argument IN your favor...

 

What I inferred was it is ridiculous to require a Bachelor's if you will not pay top dollar. Not many places require a 4 year degree

Law enforcement is changing. There are a lot of municipal departments that require a 4-year degree that don't pay $ 60,000. Besides WNEC is a private school so I guess they could offer to pay it's staff in Trident Layers if they wanted.

WNEC is a good department and since it's only one of 4 schools in Western Mass that are armed it's going to get a lot of candidates for this job regardless of the pay. This is Mass remember and a sworn jobs is hard to come by.

 

if they pay their guys like cops with Bachelor's Degrees

I am sure it's not a news flash, but there are Muni Cops out there, who don't get paid like Cops with a Bachelor Degree.

I agree, that it 's kind of a tall order for the job, but not because it's a CPO job, simply because i do not really think that one needs a BS or BA to get their foot in the door. One should strive to get their education regardless, but for entry level???

Let's face it guys, this job is not Rocket Science. Out predesessors back in the day, did this job uite effectively without a higher education. Yes, in this day and age it is far better to be an educated cop, but to make not having a degree a disualifier is just plain stupid.

Some of the best guys who have trained me on this job, did not go past high school. Most of them are now retired and I miss them every day.

 

The on the job training that went on back then was far more important that the classroom stuff from the academy, unlike today.

Wait, did I say that?

A lot HAS changed on every job. Some for the greater good, some not. The petty bullshit has gotten much deeper but the overall professionalism has also improved.

That doesn't mean the old guys weren't pros. Far from it. I miss our old timers. They came from a different era of policing.

I have to agree that requiring a 4 year degree is a bit much, but it may simply be a way to narrow the field and nothing more. I agree 100% with jyanis that a lot of good people will get edged out because of it and some guy who may be as dumb as shit, but sat in class for 4 years has a better shot. It's not fair, but there's a lot that's not fair. This stuff can happen with promotions as well. No, I'm not griping. I haven't even given promotion a shot in years and have no desire to throw away the nice niche I've carved for myself for a couple of stipes and more headaches. The higher pay wouldn't be worth it to me anymore.


(I didn't get my Ass. degree until I had been on the job about 10 years-So I side with the NO DEGREE crowd).

 

Just so people are aware, the degree requirement was part of the bargain when the college armed their CPO's a few years back. Obviously the widsom of that is questionable, but there you go. The department really seems to have it together, and if I wasn't so modestly edumucated I'd be all over it. I know quite a few people with 4 year degrees (or above) who are strugglng to break into law enforcement and would probably make great cops. I don't doubt the applicant pool for this job is going to be huge.

 

(I didn't get my Ass. degree until I had been on the job about 10 years-So I side with the NO DEGREE crowd).

This is just a crazy theory but I think part of the reason the college has this bachelors degree requirement is so the students can't challenge the officers on it at judicial board. The college student is a clever and manipulative animal and I can see a student questioning an officers education level and knowledge of the law. We all know that the argument is ignorant... But so aren't most of these kids that end up at judicial board.

 

This is just a crazy theory but I think part of the reason the college has this bachelors degree requirement is so the students can't challenge the officers on it at judicial board. The college student is a clever and manipulative animal and I can see a student questioning an officers education level and knowledge of the law. We all know that the argument is ignorant... But so aren't most of these kids that end up at judicial board.

Can't say I've ever run into that in a board nite.

 

Can't say I've ever run into that in a board nite.

I know it sounds like the ravings of a crazy person but I've heard these kids come up with some pretty outlandish things in the booking room. They take Intro to Criminal Justice and they're ready to argue cases in court.

I took it from the rant of a kid arrested for OUI last spring. He kept telling the arresting officer that he probably had more education than he did and kept asking him law questions and inquiring about his highest level of education.

 

It's a valid concern. I have never faced that sort of thing myself, but that doesn't mean squat. I'm sure that happens a fair amount of the time so Owl, you bring up an excellent point.

As dumb as shit as they can be, they CAN also be clever and manipulative. "What's your level of education officer?" "I'm educated enough to know how NOT to get arrested, KID!":smug:

 

I took it from the rant of a kid arrested for OUI last spring. He kept telling the arresting officer that he probably had more education than he did and kept asking him law questions and inquiring about his highest level of education.

Last spring I was breaking up an underage drinking party in the woods, and while searching a kid's backpack, I took out a textbook and the kid said "That's for my high school AP Statistics class....not that you'd know anything about it".

Having taken 2 graduate-level statistics courses, I then proceeded to completely, thoroughly, and totally embarrass him in front of his friends by peppering him with questions about ANOVA, Chi Square, Tukey's HSD, linear regression, and non-parametric correlation, for which he had no answers at all.

As I was placing the cuffs on him for Minor in Possession, I said "Gee, I guess I DO know something about it".

 

Bachelors required? Damn...that's alot closer than what I drive now. I enjoyed working at Springfield College back in 90-92. WNEC is a good dept too. :stomp:

 

I know it sounds like the ravings of a crazy person but I've heard these kids come up with some pretty outlandish things in the booking room. They take Intro to Criminal Justice and they're ready to argue cases in court.

I took it from the rant of a kid arrested for OUI last spring. He kept telling the arresting officer that he probably had more education than he did and kept asking him law questions and inquiring about his highest level of education.

I had that happen to me very recently. He was also throwing his service in the military in my face, and how he was more qualified. I gave him a few digs back, but the beautiful thing about it is that in the end, he was still under arrest for an OUI.

Also, attorney's like to "win" juries over with how great their clients are, and paint them as hard working good people (so that the juries can relate to them, and say "hey that could of been me") but with the wonderful invention of booking videos, it takes the air out of that sail.....Let them run their mouths, it only hurts them in the end. I for one like to quote suspects in my reports, as it paints a better picture as to what the person was really like that night....

 

Last spring I was breaking up an underage drinking party in the woods, and while searching a kid's backpack, I took out a textbook and the kid said "That's for my high school AP Statistics class....not that you'd know anything about it".

Having taken 2 graduate-level statistics courses, I then proceeded to completely, thoroughly, and totally embarrass him in front of his friends by peppering him with questions about ANOVA, Chi Square, Tukey's HSD, linear regression, and non-parametric correlation, for which he had no answers at all.

As I was placing the cuffs on him for Minor in Possession, I said "Gee, I guess I DO know something about it".

I didn't know that Quincy still has woods. Welcome back Delta.

 

It's a valid concern. I have never faced that sort of thing myself, but that doesn't mean squat. I'm sure that happens a fair amount of the time so Owl, you bring up an excellent point.

As dumb as shit as they can be, they CAN also be clever and manipulative. "What's your level of education officer?" "I'm educated enough to know that your mother should have swallowed and your daddy should have pulled out or hit your mom in the ass, KID!":smug:

Fixed it for you.:redcarded:

 

I didn't know that Quincy still has woods. Welcome back Delta.

Faxon park, maybe ? :tounge_smile:

 

What depts require 4yr degrees?

 

What depts require 4yr degrees?

Well, Western New England College for one. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

Sorry, I'm basically just a wise ass.

 

Faxon park, maybe ? :tounge_smile:

72 acres donated to the city by the Faxon family with the provision it is never to be used for anything but recreational purposes. The stomping grounds of my youth.

 

72 acres donated to the city by the Faxon family with the provision it is never to be used for anything but recreational purposes. The stomping grounds of my youth.

I just hope what those recreational purposes are weren't written out too specifically. Great view from up top.

 

NiteOwl......they're armed, chapter 90 is a stretch. They have citations for criminal violations, but its the same old 22c 63 jurisdiction and no more! Just like every other private college without some sort of city special or sheriff authority.

 

Starting pay is approx $34,000 with a Bachelors, Masters etc..
It'll be over 10yrs with the department to crack $40,000/yr as a patrolman. I've been told roughly half of the dept's sergeants don't even have a bachelors degree or at least they didn't when they were promoted to sgt. $34,000 as an armed officer plus being mandated to have a bachelors and a specialty such as EMT, firearms manager, bike mechanic and so on. Is $34,000 a fair deal?

WNEC is a descent department from a law enforcement point of view and the school offers a very solid education, but the PD is too caught up with their image and polices/procedures. This philosophy starts with the chief.

Claim to fame is being an armed department. "Everybody wants to work here because we're armed", "we are the best of the best in Western Mass". A department to stay on board for a few years, get some experience, build your resume, then move on. :timebomb:

 

Claim to fame is being an armed department. "Everybody wants to work here because we're armed"

I think it's an officer safety issue more than anything. They get all the trash from the other parts of Springfield rolling through all night.