Brown: Allow Women Into Combat Units | Page 2 | MassCops

Brown: Allow Women Into Combat Units

Discussion in 'Military News' started by kwflatbed, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    Here we go!

    As i've said before, I don't believe in different standards for the same job. If you can't achieve or surpass the top standards, you shouldn't get the job. If you can, I don't think a uterus should stop you.

    So it's not that I think women aren't excellent marksman or couldn't handle the pressure, i've seen men crack on our own soil at a crime scene. Frankly, I don't believe that men could handle themselves around women. You know who you are, Sniper:p

    What you judgmental gentlemen must understand is that a good deal of these women hoping to self-actualize are military brats, love their country as much as you do and wouldn't know what else to do for work. You can talk all the smack you want about physical and mental toughness but you've gotta remember that we bleed for a week and live to tell about it. First menstrual cramp you boys got, I can guarantee you would be crying for your Momma.
  2. OfficerObie59

    OfficerObie59 Public Trough Feeder

    You mean the same ones that affect every other coed MOS? At the risk of sounding chauvanistic, I think it's likely a good portion of females who join the infantry and other combat arms MOS's are also beneficiaries of the repeal of DADT.

    And if a problem arises, do a personnel transfer. Done.
    Killjoy likes this.
  3. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    Sorry, but I saw it first-hand, in both training situations and during a real combat deployment; as a general rule (there certainly are exceptions), females lack the mental and physical toughness for front line military service.

    If you don't like that notion, take it up with the all the females who dropped out of my pre-graduation forced march (but graduated anyway) and the females in my unit who had a higher pregnancy rate than the Nazi Lebensborn program during WWII, once we arrived in-theater.

    The problem is, often the people who can cut transfer orders are the very ones involved in the fraternization to begin with.

    Neanderthal Warning: There isn't a single male veteran here who has served in a combat zone that will truthfully say they would feel totally comfortable with a female in their midst. When the one female in my platoon went home pregnant (to have a stateside abortion), morale in the platoon skyrocketed.
  4. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    You said it yourself, they were not qualified. I specified that they must revise standards so that these candidates meet or exceed "male" standards in order to serve in-theatre. After that, there may not me many, but the one's who really want it will remain.
  5. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    So, is it really worth it to completely overhaul our military standards (and you KNOW the standards will be lowered to make sure this social engineering experiment "succeeds") so a tiny percentage of females that "really want it" can join front-line combat units with males who don't want them there to begin with?

    Like I said...I wanted to be a fighter pilot, but I didn't meet the requirements for height and eyesight.

    Guess what?

    I moved on with my life.
    JamnJim18 likes this.
  6. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    As society decays, I would love to see standards raised for all the good-hearted individuals who choose to deal with scum but I understand that it's too much to ask of the powers that be.

    One a similar note, CPD stop hiring bad bodies before they can get over the mole hill with a bench and sending them to the academy with seniority. It's disgusting.
  7. OfficerObie59

    OfficerObie59 Public Trough Feeder


  8. SgtAndySipowicz

    SgtAndySipowicz Supporting Member

    My biggest concern would be a woman becoming a POW with the enemy being ISLAMISTS. Rape and mutilation before being stoned or beheaded maybe (or should I say probably)? Can anyone here say with a straight face that they have confidence a woman POW captured by Islamists would be treated respectfully?
    Delta784 likes this.
  9. justanotherparatrooper

    justanotherparatrooper Pissin' in liberals cheerio's for 40 years :) Staff Member

    Its already happened and they were raped
    Delta784 likes this.
  10. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    They're big girls and know what they're signing up for. As long as they can meet or exceed male standards, let them go. We know that they will not be treated well, but if that's the risk they want to take, so be it.
  11. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    mtc likes this.
  12. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    All the females in my unit were "big girls" who knew what they were signing up for, but many of them decided to get pregnant to get sent home, where most of them promptly had abortions.

    I stand by my statement, which was formed through both observation and experience; as a general rule, females lack the physical and emotional toughness to serve in front-line units. Add that to the fact that they're overwhelmingly not wanted by the male warriors, how is this in any way, shape, or form, a good idea?

    When we start basing our national defense strategy on not offending a miniscule percentage of females who may possibly make the cut, then we're finished as a nation. For every female that might possibly make the standards, there are thousands of males who could, and they wouldn't bring the associated problems of fraternization, decreased morale, etc.
  13. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    That's very sad to hear, Delta. Those types disgrace the uniform and give us all a bad name. If that's all that you've encountered then I can understand your low opinion. I just can't imagine that they're all bags.

    It's been my experience in policing that reduced standards hurt everyone, so if they're not going to do it right in the military, they should not do it at all. As Obie mentioned, the military has enough to deal with due to DADT reform at this time.
  14. GARDA

    GARDA Subscribing Member

    Although I usually believe that a man of quality should never be intimidated by a female seeking equality, and can certainly empathize, I also know that the success of some groups has come only from a premium being placed upon unit cohesion above all else.

    Before this ever gets voted upon by civilians (which we know won't happen) poll the grunts and let them decide. Sorry ladies, but Special interests should never trump National ones.
    BLUE BLOOD and Delta784 like this.
  15. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    We both know what the tidal-wave decision would be.

    Why someone would want to force their way into a culture where they're clearly not welcomed by the established members is beyond me.
    GARDA and BLUE BLOOD like this.

    BLUE BLOOD ...---...

    My dad was a Chief in the old days and expressed the same opinion about female Police Officers and he was shouted down and politacally beat down and sued. Back then many wanted to be forced into a culture they were clearly not welcome, but prevailed. The tide is turning good, bad or indifferant. No problems with females on the job but for the record I agree with Delta and Garda on this one.
    GARDA likes this.
  17. Foxy85

    Foxy85 MassCops Member

    To add to Delta (and I agree with him) - while I know there have been female casualties throughout the history of ou rmilitary, I don't think the majority of the US is ready to consistently hear about female casualties of war due to front line combat roles.....

    PS my favorite part in GI Jane is when the instructor is speaking with her and telling an old war story about how he pulled a man from a burning vehicle, and then questions whether or not she would be able to perform said task.....(My memory is off, as the movie sucks, and I've only seen it a couple of times, two time too many mind you LOL)
  18. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    Comparing police to the military on this subject is comparing apples to moonrocks.

    I work with several females, and don't have a single problem with it. However, when the shift is over, they go home, and so do I. We don't all go back to a GP-Medium tent where a large percentage is cordoned off and blocked so she can have her little private area, at the expense of the comfort of everyone else in the tent.

    Police work also generally doesn't require brute strength and sheer stamina; I have yet to have to carry a crew-served machine gun or boxes of belted ammunition around as a police officer, and neither have I had to mount said machine gun on a turret pintle, or go on dismounted patrol while carrying 80lbs of equipment.

    Also, if a female police officer gets pregnant, she goes out on FMLA, and overtime hiring is used to fill her slot until she comes back. There is no OT in the military, the unit runs light, and is therefore weaker and more vulnerable.

    After all this back and forth, can someone.....ANYONE.....offer a cogent reason as to why this would be a good idea that would enhance the combat effectiveness of the United States Armed Forces?

    Beyond the ego massage and false validation it might provide to the miniscule amount of females who may make it past the inevitably watered-down standards, what possible benefit would it be to the Soldiers and Marines on the front lines?
  19. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    Does every single man enhance combat effectiveness? I don't think so. I've worked with many who couldn't find their own ass with two hands and a mirror, but because they stand to pee, they're welcomed right out of the gate until they piss off enough people with their ineptitude.
    In this decade, there are just as many manly women out there as there are faggity men, who will undoubtedly get their own bathroom and tent.
    I trust that the type A individual QUALIFIED for this position would understand the grave implication of leaving her unit short and could thus resist the charm of her fellow soldiers. With regard to their strength and stamina, I don't think it will be an issue, because somewhere out there, there's a woman warming up with your max. This is America.
  20. USAF286

    USAF286 MassCops Member

    That's why I'm getting the boot!!:eek:
  21. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    As I said before, comparing a police department to a military unit in a combat zone is comparing apples to moonrocks.

    I've been in both.

    Have you?

    If that happens, then we're just as finished as a nation as we will be if we allow females in front-line units.

    Pretty much all the females I served with who went home due to "surprise" (NOT) pregnancies were all hard chargers.....when it was blanks and MILES gear. Not so much when the bullets were real, and the threat of chemical warfare was on everyone's mind.

    Males cannot get pregnant, thereby eliminating the "This isn't fun anymore, I want to go home" route of escape.

    As I stated before, for every female out there that could pass the (inevitably watered-down) standards, there are thousands of males who could smoke them.

    With all due respect, unless you've served in a front-line military unit, you simply haven't earned the right to pass judgment on this subject.

    I ask again....what are the benefits to the Soldiers and Marines in combat theaters by allowing females to serve with them on the front lines?

    Name just one benefit......ANYTHING.....beyond the ego massage and false validation it would provide to a miniscule amount of females who want to force themselves into somewhere where they're not wanted.
    cc3915 likes this.
  22. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    If they can pass muster, then the benefit would be the same as it is with men. I haven't seen a solid argument waged against it and I don't agree that it's right to say no to a qualified individual. I've read many briefs on the subject which could have essentially been reduced to, 'we say we're better than women, so we are,' without a single cogent reason.

    With regard to my title, we all pass judgement on masscops but we will surely not decide the fate of women in the military. We also judge transgender individuals, diddlers, killers and so on without being part of their group. I don't have to be a qualified female in the military waiting to put training to use to know what is fundamentally right. I knew first hand how it felt to be qualified and in better shape than half the males at PT entrance exams. They didn't want me there based on an ignorant assumption. Get over it.
  23. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    I and other members here have been in military units in combat theaters. We're telling you that allowing women into front-line units would reduce combat effectiveness, undermine morale, and create all sorts of bad drama that would make the unit lose focus on the mission.

    Do you think we're lying to you, or do you just know better than us, even though you've never served in the military yourself?

    I'll break it down to brass tacks; much like male police officers get a lot better-looking once they put on the uniform, multiply that X100000 for females in the armed forces. No matter how fugly a female is, there will be many males who will do anything to get busy with them.

    So....PFC Fugly gets assigned to a platoon where she's the only female among males. As sure as the sun will set tonight and rise tomorrow, there will be multiple males trying to ingratiate themselves to her, in hopes of getting a little something-something. Even if she rebuffs all their advances, there will still be hard feelings among the males competing for her attention. If she does get busy with one male, the bad feelings multiply exponentially.


    Sorry if it doesn't dovetail with your theoretical views of the armed forces, but that's the hard truth from someone who has been there, and done that.

    For the fourth one benefit of allowing females into front line units, beyond the ego massage and false validation it would provide to the miniscule amount of females who could pass the (watered-down) standards and want to force themselves into somewhere where they're not wanted by those already there.
  24. kwflatbed

    kwflatbed MassCops Angel Staff Member

    From someone who has been there also many years ago, there is NO reason
    that females belong on the front combat line other than to cause problems for
    everyone that is there, it is a disruption that is not needed,if the combat solider
    etc. takes their mind off the battle for one nano second it could cost them their
    There are more than enough support positions near enough to the front that they
    can fill.
    Delta784 likes this.
  25. LGriffin

    LGriffin Always Watching

    Okay, I understand that you don't want this amazon woman there because the boys will feel sad when their advances are rejected and that will be her fault as well as the ensuing drama created by the rejected men.
    That's a very compelling argument.
    She must be a bitch or a born again slut, it's nothing on you guys.

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