Honestly, probably a good move. Im not a huge fan of the civil service system(from the outside to be fair)
Arlington looking to leave civil service for hiring
Arlington Town Meeting just passed a home rule petition seeking to remove the police hiring process from CS. If approved by the legislature, hiring will be a non-cs process, but once hired, officers will become civil service employees.
This is a fairly unique system, but I believe Wilbraham uses it. Will be interesting to see if this becomes a compromise path moving forward
This is a fairly unique system, but I believe Wilbraham uses it. Will be interesting to see if this becomes a compromise path moving forward
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It’s a very rigid system, and isn’t always logical. You can grow up in a particular town, graduate from high school there, know the town like the back of your hand, but God forbid you move to the next town over, you lose your residency. And you now have residency in a town you have no connection to.
Ten years ago, when everyone wanted the job, it was just frustrating to see your whole career future decided on a Saturday morning in a high school. Now, no one wants the job and you’re getting cards from towns you’ve never been to, but the process just exacerbates the staffing shortages
Ten years ago, when everyone wanted the job, it was just frustrating to see your whole career future decided on a Saturday morning in a high school. Now, no one wants the job and you’re getting cards from towns you’ve never been to, but the process just exacerbates the staffing shortages
I can see both sides of the coin on it. We don’t have civil service down here in NC, but I have some experience with it from trying to get on in MA.
It was still very competitive to get PD jobs when I applied, and I lived in a tiny town out in Westah Woostah that had a five-officer PD, so my residency was worthless. I had grown up in a bigger city, but since I didn’t live there any more, I didn’t get residency for it even though I grew up there was was super familiar with the city. I pretty much had to pray that I would get a call from a random town or MSP, but as non-vet, it was a long shot. In the end, I decided to move south, which ended up working out for me anyways. I got some amazing opportunities to work at great departments, met my wife, and get paid well relative to the cost of living, although not as well as a bunch of MA agencies.
On the flip side of the CS coin, it did have some advantages in that it made it nearly impossible to game the system or make nepotism hires. The non-CS departments I applied for in MA all charged me $100 to take a test, which I aced, only to get turned down in favor of a selectman’s flunky nephew or someone who’s dad was friends with the chief.
It was still very competitive to get PD jobs when I applied, and I lived in a tiny town out in Westah Woostah that had a five-officer PD, so my residency was worthless. I had grown up in a bigger city, but since I didn’t live there any more, I didn’t get residency for it even though I grew up there was was super familiar with the city. I pretty much had to pray that I would get a call from a random town or MSP, but as non-vet, it was a long shot. In the end, I decided to move south, which ended up working out for me anyways. I got some amazing opportunities to work at great departments, met my wife, and get paid well relative to the cost of living, although not as well as a bunch of MA agencies.
On the flip side of the CS coin, it did have some advantages in that it made it nearly impossible to game the system or make nepotism hires. The non-CS departments I applied for in MA all charged me $100 to take a test, which I aced, only to get turned down in favor of a selectman’s flunky nephew or someone who’s dad was friends with the chief.
Civil Service “sucks”, until you benefit from exactly why it was created; anti-nepotism.
Sure, there are ways around hiring in the CS system, BUT…….and it’s a HUGE, COLOSSAL BUT…..
Civil Service has an appeal process. If you get screwed in hiring with a CS department, you can appeal to CS, which has a generally fantastic record in making things right in regards to hiring.
Get bypassed for a non-Civill Service department? Good luck, you’re going to need it, you have ZERO recourse, other than a lawsuit.
Sure, there are ways around hiring in the CS system, BUT…….and it’s a HUGE, COLOSSAL BUT…..
Civil Service has an appeal process. If you get screwed in hiring with a CS department, you can appeal to CS, which has a generally fantastic record in making things right in regards to hiring.
Get bypassed for a non-Civill Service department? Good luck, you’re going to need it, you have ZERO recourse, other than a lawsuit.
Same can be said for promotion. With CS you have right of appeal if passed over. With Non-CS, the next supervisor will be the chief's pet.
Everyone is just getting out for more money in the next contract. PD's rank and file don't care about the hiring process only the check at the end of the pay period.
Everyone is just getting out for more money in the next contract. PD's rank and file don't care about the hiring process only the check at the end of the pay period.
CS isn’t great for bypass promotion appeal .Every promotional bypass my department has has ended up with the person being put at the top of the list . Big deal. Still lost out .Same can be said for promotion. With CS you have right of appeal if passed over. With Non-CS, the next supervisor will be the chief's pet.
Everyone is just getting out for more money in the next contract. PD's rank and file don't care about the hiring process only the check at the end of the pay period.
Without Civil Service, you’re offered cock or cake, and they’re always out of cake.CS isn’t great for bypass promotion appeal .Every promotional bypass my department has has ended up with the person being put at the top of the list . Big deal. Still lost out .
MOST COPS ARE ON THE CUTTING EDGE WHEN IT COMES TO CH 90 AND THE NUANCES OF ENFORCING CRIMINAL LAW AND APPLYING CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY GET JAMMED UP. THE MICE NEVER ASK WHY THE CHEESE IS FREE. IF YOUR MUNICIPAILTY IS GETTING RID OF CIVIL SERVICE IT'S SO THEY CAN FIRE YOUR ASS AND PROMOTE WHO THEY WANT. MOST COPS HAVE AN IDEA WHAT CIVIL SERVICE IS, BUT UNLESS THEY SPENT TIME AS A UNION PRESIDENT OR ON THE E-BOARD, THEY DON'T REALLY FULLY KNOW HOW IT WORKS. I WROTE THIS PRIOR TO THE FORMATION OF POST AND THE RECENT CASE AGAINST THE PERSONNEL ADMISTRATOR (BELOW) BECAUSE MY SON'S DEPARTMENT WAS THINKING OF LEAVING CIVIL SERVICE. I ALSO SENT IT TO WINTHROP PD TO HELP IN THEIR FIGHT TO STOP THE MUNICIPALITY FROM REMOVING IT. TAKE A LOOK AND UNDERSTAND WHAT CIVIL SERVICE IS, HOW CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTS COPS, AND WHY YOU DON'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE IT OUT. IF YOU THINK YOUR UNION HAS NO BALLS NOW, WAIT UNTIL YOU LEAVE CIVIL SERVICE. SINCE LEAVING CIVIL SERVICE READING PD HAS FORCED OUT A CHIEF, ONE LT, AND TWO SERGEANTS. NONE OF THEM WERE READY TO GO, AND I'M NOT SAYING SOME REMOVALS WEREN'T JUSTIFIED, BUT THEY HAD "NO" SHOT OF COMING BACK ONCE CIVIL SERVICE WAS REMOVED. THEY ALL RESIGNED IN DISGRACE BECAUSE THE CHIEF'S AND MUNICIPALITY ARE PLAYING 3RD AND LONG, THEY HAVE NO FEAR OF WHAT YOUR UNION CAN DO, AND THE NEW RULES FAVOR THEM. IF YOU GET JAMMED UP CALL ME IF YOU HAVE NO ONE TO TURN TO. I'LL GET YOU THE HELP YOU NEED. READING PD SGT MARK J. O'BRIEN C-978.771.5448
reading_sgt.mark_j._obrien-_what_is_civil_service.pdf (swampscottma.gov)
civil-service-case-oct-27-decision-1668107652.pdf (htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com)
reading_sgt.mark_j._obrien-_what_is_civil_service.pdf (swampscottma.gov)
civil-service-case-oct-27-decision-1668107652.pdf (htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com)
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