Discussion in 'Law Review' started by wordstew, Mar 9, 2007.
I'll take your word for it that he does......but so do I .......so whats your point????
One of my jobs is being a training officer for a PD with the responsibility to certifiy the officers in the department as First Responders and keeping them current with CPR and First Responder Training pursant to MA OEMS and MPTC Standards. Here is the standards set forth by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
105 CMR 170.000: Emergency Medical Services System
. First Responder means a member of any of the following entities: a police or fire department; state police participating in highway patrol; an emergency reserve unit of a volunteer fire department or fire protection district, and any persons appointed permanent or temporary lifeguards by the Commonwealth or any of its political subdivision. A first responder shall not mean a police officer, firefighter or person engaged in police and fire work whose duties are primarily clerical or administrative. First responders are required to successfully complete, at a minimum, the course of emergency medical care thah meets the standards of M.G.L. c. 111 , S201 and 105 CMR 170.000.
.First Responder Agency means a police departmnet, a fire department, the state police participating in highway patrol, an emergency reserve unit of a volunteer fire department or fire protection district, or the Commonwealth or any of its political subdivisions that appoints permanent or temporary lifeguards. A first responder agency shall not mean aservice that is lisensed EFR (such as an ambulance service)
When a police officer responds to the scene of a medical emergency thay have a duty to act as prescribed by statute. They can only turn over care of that patient to a person with the same level of training or higher such as another First Responder, EMT, Basic, Intermediate or Paramedic who accepts responsibility for that patient's care other wise it is abandonment. In most cases RNs and MDs do not want to take over care and accept responsibility for the patient which includes accompaning the patient to the hospital. In order for an RN to be certified as a First Responder they have to go throught the same level of training as set forth by 105 CMR 170.000.
Most RN don't feel comfortable outside their own ER enviroment with everything at their disposal plenting of lighting all the supplies they need right at hand. They aren't use to being in an overturned vehicle at 3AM with dim lighting intubating a driver who is in respiratory arrest with multiple trauma. The exception to this is the RNs and MDs who work on the medical helicopters such as Medflight RN Medic or Life Flight MD, RN, Medic they under go specialized training for emergency treatment in the field. If you are at a scene and an RN from a nursing home arrives on scene they can't take over patient care but if they are competent enough they can assit you.
Nice post Slimer.
The CMR's were already posted 12 posts ago but, some folks participating in this thread would rather still spout their own opinions rather then accept what the regs say.
No, I think you are screwing it up. The flight crew of an RN and Medic, because the helicopter is an ambulance and the state says so, must be the RN is also an EMT. UMASS (RN an MD) and BMF do offer a fly along program for "learning experiences" of other professionals. ( UMASS is a whole new ball of wax, as they are MDs, but the RN needs his/her EMT.) I can ASSURE you, that those individuals are not performing any care on someone. If you say they are, you are full of it. There are cases where additional staff may accompany a crew, example a specialty Neonatal patient, but there is an exclusion of the EMT rule on this one and a few others. Plus, you wont see a neonatal extra crew member on a scene call.
Sorry I am off topic as this has nothing to do with the initial first responder question posted.
I did not think there would be such a response to this post. It appears that by the letter of the law Registered Nurses are not first responders unless they take a certifying course like everyone else. But from what I understand legally an EMT or paramedic can only act as a nurses aide when in a hospital. Also, I thought nurses could challenge the EMT exam. (no offense intended to EMS folks)
All very confusing.
What to make a bet!!!! Tell this to the civil lawyers when a school nurse does not repond and perform first responders actions when an emergency happens.
Irish, you even quoted me and still didn't get what I said.
Where in my statement did I say the school nurse shouldn't give or can't provide patiant care???? I even called them on-site medical personnel.
What I said is that the LAW (not me!) doesn't define the school nurse as a first responder.
Actually, I am ACLS certified and I can intubate. It is one of the first things I learned in the class....
Now, legally speaking, I am only an EMT-B, so LEGALLY I cannot intubate... but I can do the skill. (wow that was a lot of comma's)
Im not sure if they are first responders but i would never refuse the help
I have a nurse sitting next to me... and she says.... im SEXY as HELL!
If that is your picture she needs help. Unless she is a rusty spoon.
As an ACLS instructor, Id like to know where you can teach someone to intubate in a 8-16hr course... Just because somebody showed you how to perform a skill on a manikin doesnt particularly make one competent to actually go out and do it...
Keep nurses and doctors far, far away from my accident scene. If I need med control I will call you.....
My favorite was a nurse at a MVA saying to the paitent...."Save your strength, just nod your head yes or no".
RN, MD and PA DO NOT have to take the class - only challange the exam
A. I do know that is bad...
B. I would stick a pillow over their head anyway
C. Now that I read more of these posts, I have have no vested interest in this topic and I am not sure why I am still typing.
D. I need a beer
I think the reason why nurses take the ACLS course is for an understanding of what is happening in a Cardiac Situation. Like if a patient is doing this maybe the nurse should grab the LMA Tube and have it ready for the MD.
Something along that lines. Very few Nurses (if any with the exception maybe being Flight Nurses) in Mass I think can legally intubate as a Medic or EMT-I would in the Field.
As far as nurses being first responders what are they going to have with them besides a Band Aid Bag, unless the nurse happens to have all the gear an ALS Ambulance would have in the trunk of their Kia.
Its one thing if a nurse is shopping and some guy falls down in front of him or her. Its another thing if nurses stop on the side of the highway. Its silly for a nurse to stop at an accident scene unless its a MCI situation.
It still does not make sense to me. I would figure that a registered nurse education would trump at the very least basic first responder training. You can't tell me that a police officer after having a first responder course is more medically competent than a Registered Nurse emergency or not. If that was the case than first responders would be working in hospital emergency rooms instead of nurses.
I am not comparing a Paramedic who soley and extensively trains for emergency medicine.
Mind you most people use the terms nurse and first responder loosely. Many levels of nursing and of first responders.
Mine was a 40 hr course in college. Myself and one other guy were the only non-medical field students. Most were respritory/physical therapy majors. Maybe it was changed to give them skills they will have to do while doing hospital rounds? All I know is that I cannot do it at my level, no idea what level you have to be to do it.
All Registered Nurses graduate with BLS certification regardless of state. Some states require ACLS. Registered Nurses graduate with a degree. While some nurses prefer bedside treatment other nurses work in the field. I suppose I should not have been surprised to see the bravado applied as one field being more important than another. At the end of the day I'm appreciative that anyone with BLS (even the school nurse) would stop at my family's accident roadside to offer assistance or bedside to extend a life. By the way RNs can push more drugs than medics but none of us can do so without a doctors order. So I'm not so sure why theres so much machismo.
Well you managed to bring a thread that's been dead for 12 years back to life so you've got that going for you. Pretty sure most, if not all, of those who commented aren't even here anymore.
(Usual disclaimer since I can see where this is going: I"m not a cop, never been a cop, never wanted to be a cop, never dated a cop, never wanted to date a cop. My comments are apparently just my internalized misogyny showing.)
We are going to need to vote on who wins the contest for thread necromancy this year. We’ve seen some real competition these last few months.
Holy Baby Jebus! All that to revive a really stupid pointless thread from 12 years ago..? And no, RNs aren’t First Responders. Who fucking cares?
You seriously created an account just to post this reply on a thread from 2007?
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