Another terrible dashcam, Tulsa Oklahoma | MassCops

Another terrible dashcam, Tulsa Oklahoma

Discussion in 'Law Enforcement Articles' started by Hush, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Traffic stop in Tulsa results in Sergeant murdered and Officer shot. This video is hard to watch, I don't think my blood pressure should be this high at 7am. First viewing, all I could think of was Deputy Dinkheller. A lot to unpack here, use of force needs to be rethought. Be prepared to use it or find a new line of work.

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
    Joel98 likes this.
  2. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

    Upon the second watch, the person the murderer called for help during the stop appears to have shown up just before the shooting. He helped the muderer get away after. If there was ever a learning point for not letting anyone use their phone, call, or livestream during a stop...this is it. These cops were killed because they held back. Blood is on every politician and BLM scumbags hands.
  3. visible25

    visible25 Supporting Member

    Joel98 likes this.
  4. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    I thought he was the shooter at first.
    Joel98 and AB7 like this.
  5. RodneyFarva

    RodneyFarva Get off my lawn!

    Video showing the shooting of two Tulsa police officers could become public this week after a judge is able to observe alleged “inconsistencies” between the footage and statements from investigators.

    David Anthony Ware and Matthew Nicholas Hall appeared together in court Tuesday morning for the first time since their arrests in connection with the June 29 shootings that resulted in the death of Sgt. Craig Johnson and wounding of Officer Aurash Zarkeshan.

    Ware could face the death penalty for his part in the fatal altercation, which started with a traffic stop. Hall is accused of being an accessory after the fact when he reportedly helped Ware flee after the shootings.

    District Judge William Musseman implied that footage from Johnson’s and Zarkeshan’s body cameras, as well as Zarkeshan’s patrol car dash camera, will become public.

    “The question is not if — it’s when,” he said, adding that he plans to watch the footage before deciding.

    Musseman said he likely will agree with prosecutors’ assertions that the footage is “graphic and disturbing,” but state law grants the public the right to know what the videos show.
    “That doesn’t mean we have to lose all human decorum,” he said of the impact of a possible release.
    Musseman will announce Thursday whether the videos should be public with possible redactions.

    Brian Martin, Hall’s attorney and a former police officer, said the footage shows that “Mr. Ware was an absolute obstructionist that evening and he tried to execute two Tulsa police officers, successfully executing one.”

    Martin said it appeared to him that Johnson and Zarkeshan had “worked their way up the use-of-force continuum” properly.

    Hall’s attorney has argued against the release of the videos based on his view that they could prejudice his client’s case.

    Ware told Musseman that he had “fear of this whole trial” but felt he had no other choice to defend himself “because there were false statements made” about his actions in a police affidavit.

    On Sept. 2 Special Judge April Seibert extended a July order from Special Judge David Guten that withholds the video footage from public release for at least six months. However, in doing so last week, Seibert acknowledged that she found “inconsistencies” between what the videos show and statements made in police records about the incident.

    Guten in July conceded that he didn’t watch the videos before ruling that they should be kept from the public. Seibert said last week that her order would be in effect only until Musseman, the trial court judge assigned to Ware’s case, rules on the issue.
    Ware’s attorney, Kevin Adams, said Tuesday that “we believe it’s time for the truth to come out,” and he alleged that the state is wrongly using the law to try to stop him from releasing the videos himself.

    Musseman noted that District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler has publicly said he is considering seeking the death penalty. He said the time-intensive nature of a capital case could mean it remains pending for longer than the 18-month deadline provided for in the Oklahoma Open Records Act for disclosure of law enforcement records.
  6. AB7

    AB7 MassCops Member

    This is the product of mainstream media and all these anti-police politicians who have never done the job but know how to do it better.

    RIP SGT. Johnson. We all thank you for your sacrifice to keep others safe.
    Joel98 likes this.
  7. Javert

    Javert MassCops Member

    I can’t watch the video but sounds like a situation we were in that (somehow) we survived last month. Ran into a call, found a guy with a gun to womens head. Pointing it back and forth between her and us. One of our guys talked him down and thankfully everyone survived. We’re forced to police with one hand tied around our balls now, especially where I work. Fuck em all. I’m just not sure there’s enough civilians out there worth working for anymore. Let the animals have the streets. We have become 100% reactionary as the whole “helping people” concept just isn’t worth it any more. That’s fine. Good luck I say, I honestly tell anyone who will listen to “buy a gun” because we’re done racing to even hot calls. Why should we????
    Goose and USAF286 like this.
  8. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    There are a bunch of learning points in this video. It did not have to happen this way.

    May Sergeant Johnson rest in peace.
    Joel98 likes this.
  9. Quo Vadis

    Quo Vadis MassCops Member

    I know LAPD has some of the best patrol tactics training around. If you feel comfortable sharing what you see from that perspective, I’m sure it could be beneficial.
  10. Quo Vadis

    Quo Vadis MassCops Member

    Here’s what I see: With more officers, you could have deadly force cover while others go hands on. With another patrol car, you could pin the suspect’s car and largely mitigate the risk of it being used as a weapon. (Have deadly force cover perpendicular to the patrol car that approaches from the front, as the driver is vulnerable.) With a K9, you could see if the dog gains compliance without having to get humans entangled.

    I know, in some places there is no backup. A city like Tulsa isn’t one of those places. And I know, you can become the butt of jokes if you and your partner ask for help handling one unarmed (or is he?) guy who doesn’t want his car towed.

    This suspect had a long criminal history, including assault on an officer, which was presumably known to at least the deceased sergeant, as he had been the victim in that case too. That is definitely a Graham factor which can drive decision making.

    As for the final, tragic moments, it seems one officer had a hold of one of the suspect’s hands/wrists, while the other officer tried to control the head. HANDS kill. Not the head. The wrist tie (or at least the bicep tie) can be employed to prevent the withdrawal of weapons from the waistband or elsewhere. An underhook can work similarly. When entangled, fight to control the hands, gain a dominant position, and then deploy your own weapons, submission, etc.
    Goose, LA Copper, Hush and 1 other person like this.
  11. res2244

    res2244 MassCops Member

    RIP Sgt. Johnson. What a tragedy
  12. LA Copper

    LA Copper Subscribing Member

    We as the police need to recognize the signs the bad guys are giving us. After the first minute or so of trying to gain his cooperation and him acting as belligerent as he was, they absolutely should have been asking for additional units. (The bad guy called for back-up but the officers didn't!)

    The sergeant should be in a supervisory role and not have to participate if other officers are available. It's easier to see the "big picture" when you're not actively involved with the suspect. That's why they are called supervisors, so they can supervise and not have to actively participate unless it's an emergency, which this initially wasn't.

    When a suspect acts like this guy, it's for two reasons:

    1) he's just being a jerk and that's what jerks act like
    2) More importantly, he doesn't want to get out of the car because he's trying to hide something; He's got a gun, he's got
    dope, he's got warrants, etc, each of which lead to a bad outcome if not handled tactically as happened here

    They definitely should have requested more officers before going hands on but since they didn't:
    Once they decided to go hands on, they should have communicated to one another as to how they wanted to handle him.

    Quo is right, we first need a DCO (designated cover officer) then we don't grab the head, we go for the hands and arms because we need to control the hands because that's where the cuffs go and that's where they hold their guns, especially since he was already acting crazy, hadn't yet been searched, and had already called a buddy to come to the scene.
  13. PBC FL Cop

    PBC FL Cop Subscribing Member

    Tragic, RIP Brother

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