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I don’t think wearing dirty underwear on your head or being okay with getting your head shoved in a toilet shows your mentally strong. It shows that person has no self worth or self confidence.

That has absolutely nothing to do with mental strength. If anything, I’d say someone who allows that to happen to themselves is mentally fragile and vulnerable. There’s plenty of mentally strong people who have passed through that academy without getting soiled underwear put on their head or some other demeaning act.
That hasn’t happened since the 78th. We are 8 academies later and even though it’s easier now the weak still can’t make it and are looking for an easy back door.


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That hasn’t happened since the 78th. We are 8 academies later and even though it’s easier now the weak still can’t make it and are looking for an easy back door.


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There’s no backdoors, 6 months long for everyone out there. Until this cadet program starts up..

That’s also part of the problem police agencies are facing though, especially State academies like the MSP because they’re generally harder. You’ve got a mass exodus of people retiring, even a decent amount just leaving before getting a full pension and then on the other end they’re not getting enough interested recruits. Civil Service numbers are down big for 2021. My department has seen a 50% increase in retirements compared to 2020.. and 2020 was the worst year for retirements. So it’s a double edged sword, lot of bodies leaving, not enough to fill the vacancies.

But for the MSP with the staffing problems they have, you really think they have the luxury of making the academy as hard as possible like the pre 78th days? No way, they can’t risk that and whether or not that’s detrimental to them or not, I don’t know (probably is), but that’s the reality.
 

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What we do In maine is share coverage between sheriff and SP. that honestly might be a good idea with so many sheriff’s deputies becoming LEOs in MA, and a good way to retain those hires. Also a good way to offset the SP shortages while they get it together. They should also totally take laterals. Maine SP does a 10 week RTT for everyone on top of the standard training for all LEOs to get their hats screwed on right, and the laterals only have to do that, rather than a full academy again. It was a good compromise between SP and the post commission.
 

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What we do In maine is share coverage between sheriff and SP. that honestly might be a good idea with so many sheriff’s deputies becoming LEOs in MA, and a good way to retain those hires. Also a good way to offset the SP shortages while they get it together. They should also totally take laterals. Maine SP does a 10 week RTT for everyone on top of the standard training for all LEOs to get their hats screwed on right, and the laterals only have to do that, rather than a full academy again. It was a good compromise between SP and the post commission.
Good idea on the laterals but I think hell would freeze over before the MSP open themselves up to laterals.. which is ironic because a lot of Troopers have left the department to go Municipal/Federal the past couple of years. On top of that, not sure what Maine is like with incentives, but in Massachusetts a lot of towns and cities offer the Quinn Bill which can be anywhere from like $5,000 more per year to all the way up to $25,000 (sometimes even more). MSP doesn’t have that anymore.
 

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I get that money is important and you guys talk about the Quinn Bill a lot, but I'm just wondering.... doesn't anyone who is looking for a police job in New England ever want to know about the potential police work they're gonna be doing in that department?

I read through lots of these threads (usually without commenting) and notice that hardy anyone, if anyone, ever asks about what the job is like: for example, is there a lot of robberies, shootings, gang activity, foot and vehicle pursuits, OIS incidents, SWAT call outs, homicides, etc. The good stuff! And, is the command staff pro police, how is the equipment, do they have Tasers, 40mm, beanbag shotguns, patrol rifles, cruisers in good working condition, morale, etc. Not really the good stuff but still important stuff. (Notice I didn't mention Details.)

Just an observation from reading lots of these "what's so and so department like?"
 

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I get that money is important and you guys talk about the Quinn Bill a lot, but I'm just wondering.... doesn't anyone who is looking for a police job in New England ever want to know about the potential police work they're gonna be doing in that department?

I read through lots of these threads (usually without commenting) and notice that hardy anyone, if anyone, ever asks about what the job is like: for example, is there a lot of robberies, shootings, gang activity, foot and vehicle pursuits, OIS incidents, SWAT call outs, homicides, etc. The good stuff! And, is the command staff pro police, how is the equipment, do they have Tasers, 40mm, beanbag shotguns, patrol rifles, cruisers in good working condition, morale, etc. Not really the good stuff but still important stuff. (Notice I didn't mention Details.)

Just an observation from reading lots of these "what's so and so department like?"
I use to think the same thing but now for me it’s all about
Money
Vacation
Time coming
Overtime
Retirement

The end of the day we’re all just a number that can be replaced . Just my 2
 

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I get that money is important and you guys talk about the Quinn Bill a lot, but I'm just wondering.... doesn't anyone who is looking for a police job in New England ever want to know about the potential police work they're gonna be doing in that department?

I read through lots of these threads (usually without commenting) and notice that hardy anyone, if anyone, ever asks about what the job is like: for example, is there a lot of robberies, shootings, gang activity, foot and vehicle pursuits, OIS incidents, SWAT call outs, homicides, etc. The good stuff! And, is the command staff pro police, how is the equipment, do they have Tasers, 40mm, beanbag shotguns, patrol rifles, cruisers in good working condition, morale, etc. Not really the good stuff but still important stuff. (Notice I didn't mention Details.)

Just an observation from reading lots of these "what's so and so department like?"

The money difference is really noticeable now between the MSP and for example my department Boston. There’s rookies out of the academy in Boston making $110,000 - $120,000 (not many, but I’ve seen a few) whereas for the State they’re lucky if they hit $80,000 with details and OT as rookies. There’s a kid at my district station that’s on pace to make $220,000 this year as a patrolman, he’s only been on for 3 years. Granted he’s basically living in uniform, but a big chunk of that is $25,000 in the Quinn incentive. So no, money isn’t everything, but it is a really important factor obviously.

Most towns and cities the police work (in general) is going to be a little more interesting too. With the MSP you kind of know what you’re getting the first few years on the job, lot of highway with a lot of MV stops. With City and Muni departments every day can be different which can be a good or bad thing depending on what a person is looking for. Not to say a highway Trooper can’t have variety, but for the most part their days are more similar.

What the MSP has going for them is the tradition and “prestige” though. Some people eat that stuff up and maybe that’s enough for them to not care about extra incentives. But at the end of the day I think if you gave most people the option of an extra $10,000-$25,000 a year or a MSP take home cruiser, they’re probably taking the extra cash.
 

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I use to think the same thing but now for me it’s all about
Money
Vacation
Time coming
Overtime
Retirement

The end of the day we’re all just a number that can be replaced . Just my 2
Exactly, that’s the concise version of my rambling in my post hah!
 

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Exactly, that’s the concise version of my rambling in my post hah!
An MSP boot not hitting $80k isn't doing anything extra, nor going to court much at all.
Secretaries make that and are barely putting in 30hrs a week.
 

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.... doesn't anyone who is looking for a police job in New England ever want to know about the potential police work they're gonna be doing in that department?.....
C’mon Man! Here’s the deal: I’ve been on Masscops long enough to know it’s all about hats, guns and chapter 90! And..... gimme the money!
 

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An MSP boot not hitting $80k isn't doing anything extra, nor going to court much at all.
Secretaries make that and are barely putting in 30hrs a week.
I see most of them just under 80K, but ironically they don’t look like they get much OT.. which begs the question why are they moving veteran detectives around if the boots aren’t working more OT.

I’d be lying if said the Quinn Bill here in Boston wasn’t a big factor in my decision.
 

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The bill will be gone in 10 years completely anyway. Maybe with the exception of Boston because we can just keep taxing the hell out of people.
 

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I see most of them just under 80K, but ironically they don’t look like they get much OT.. which begs the question why are they moving veteran detectives around if the boots aren’t working more OT.

I’d be lying if said the Quinn Bill here in Boston wasn’t a big factor in my decision.
I see most of them just under 80K, but ironically they don’t look like they get much OT.. which begs the question why are they moving veteran detectives around if the boots aren’t working more OT.
Why can't captains read ID numbers? 🤷‍♀️
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I see most of them just under 80K, but ironically they don’t look like they get much OT.. which begs the question why are they moving veteran detectives around if the boots aren’t working more OT.

I’d be lying if said the Quinn Bill here in Boston wasn’t a big factor in my decision.
Do they still have the 3 month break in period? Depending on when in the year they graduate there isn't much time to work any extras after that. I will say (unless it's changed) that I can see money being a huge issue for people while they're in the academy. I can't find it now, but there was a time when they listed how much trainees were paid while there. If I remember correctly it was about half of base pay for a first year trooper. That might work for a young person without a lot of bills, but for someone with a mortgage and kids it's pretty hard to survive on $40k even for 6 months. Sure the academy provides your meals and a bed for the work week, but you still have to go somewhere on the weekend and your kids still want to eat no matter how many times you tell them they just ate yesterday.
 

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$80,000 your first year out of the academy is pretty good, especially for "kids," some of which may still live at home with mom and dad. However, it's not just the Staties where candidates are asking the money questions, it's all the other departments as well. I've noticed this for many years here on Masscops and have often wondered why no one ever asks about the job itself. I would completely get it if people asked about the money AND the police work they might be doing but they never do, it's always just the money questions.

When I came to the LAPD back in the late 80's, our base pay was only $33,000. And as MSW can attest to, the Los Angeles area, including the suburbs, is not a cheap place to live in. That being said, I and many of my partners often said to each other, we would do this job for free (tongue in cheek, of course) because we were having so much fun chasing bad guys. Most of us never talked about the money thing even though we needed it as bad as the next guy. (In my first few years on the job, gangs and crack were out of control out here and the city hovered right around 1,100 homicides a year.)

Speaking only for LAPD, we didn't have anything related to the Quinn Bill until our last contract two years ago. We now have something very similar in our contract. However, when Bill Bratton was here in the mid 2000s, his administration instituted a policy where you have to have a minimum of an Associates Degree to promote to sergeant and detective and you have to have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree to promote to lieutenant and above.
 

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$80,000 your first year out of the academy is pretty good, especially for "kids," some of which may still live at home with mom and dad. However, it's not just the Staties where candidates are asking the money questions, it's all the other departments as well. I've noticed this for many years here on Masscops and have often wondered why no one ever asks about the job itself. I would completely get it if people asked about the money AND the police work they might be doing but they never do, it's always just the money questions.

When I came to the LAPD back in the late 80's, our base pay was only $33,000. And as MSW can attest to, the Los Angeles area, including the suburbs, is not a cheap place to live in. That being said, I and many of my partners often said to each other, we would do this job for free (tongue in cheek, of course) because we were having so much fun chasing bad guys. Most of us never talked about the money thing even though we needed it as bad as the next guy. (In my first few years on the job, gangs and crack were out of control out here and the city hovered right around 1,100 homicides a year.)

Speaking only for LAPD, we didn't have anything related to the Quinn Bill until our last contract two years ago. We now have something very similar in our contract. However, when Bill Bratton was here in the mid 2000s, his administration instituted a policy where you have to have a minimum of an Associates Degree to promote to sergeant and detective and you have to have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree to promote to lieutenant and above.
That it is, I don’t think many young troopers can complain about the money. All I’m saying is in certain Munis the pay is much higher. Once upon a time it was the other way around.
 

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The money isn’t a complaint I don’t think, but it’s a good reason why they’re not attracting new recruits. It’s the same thing in maine. SP is offering 25 an hour starting ish, but most of the munis get at least 27 plus a better edu incentive(in southern maine) if the SP can’t stay competitive with pay, people who are thinking about raising a family may think twice when considering their options
 

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I understand... I was just making a basic observation of the overall issue.
The money isn’t a complaint I don’t think, but it’s a good reason why they’re not attracting new recruits. It’s the same thing in maine. SP is offering 25 an hour starting ish, but most of the munis get at least 27 plus a better edu incentive(in southern maine) if the SP can’t stay competitive with pay, people who are thinking about raising a family may think twice when considering their options
100%. I don’t think the Quinn bill will even be around anymore in 10 years at the rate we’re going, with the exception of big muni departments. I’d never fault someone for doing what’s best for a family financially speaking.
 
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