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No it is, the troopers they’re reassigning aren’t DFS Troopers (field services) they’re detectives with assignments the DAs offices and even the Attorney General. They’ve already bought more Troopers out this year than any year in the past. They’re expected spend over $11 million in buyouts, previous high was last year at $6 million. Over 10% of the department is anticipated to retire this year, that’s a problem.

Well, there is a recent msp graduate in my town that plays coffee with a cop all over the metro west. Can't be hurting that hard. Open up the DAs office/fire marshal etc to locals, get rid of the troopers at OAT and replace with civilians, hire more civilian dispatchers get rid of the outdated desk and 2. The MSP literally have their hands in everything. You could easily reduce the needed numbers of troopers without impacting service but then again none want to work the road unless it's a unit anyway.

The reform bill has hurt literally every agency in this state and turned applicants south, west or north. The juice isn't worth the squeeze in this state anymore.
 

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Well, there is a recent msp graduate in my town that plays coffee with a cop all over the metro west. Can't be hurting that hard. Open up the DAs office/fire marshal etc to locals, get rid of the troopers at OAT and replace with civilians, hire more civilian dispatchers get rid of the outdated desk and 2. The MSP literally have their hands in everything. You could easily reduce the needed numbers of troopers without impacting service but then again none want to work the road unless it's a unit anyway.

The reform bill has hurt literally every agency in this state and turned applicants south, west or north. The juice isn't worth the squeeze in this state anymore.
They aren’t going to take away from their recruitment efforts. They probably view that as one of their highest priorities nowadays, especially given the fact they are being passed over for muni departments. 20 years ago, the thought of the MSP being passed over by a recruit to go with a town or even big MA City department was practically unheard of. Now it’s not as rare because a lot of cities in Massachusetts still offer the Quinn Bill incentive, the MSP losing that really put a dent in their ability to bring in interested applicants. I agree, I think DA’s offices should have some local participation, I know here in Boston (Suffolk DA) they do work with Boston PD detectives of course, but the Suffolk DA also has MSP Detectives assigned to it as well. I assume they only have MSP detectives because Suffolk County is of course more than just Boston (Chelsea, Revere and Winthrop).

Gotta get a new hiring method, have to try and get the Quinn Bill back if possible and they should try to streamline the hiring process more it takes way too long right now.
 

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They aren’t going to take away from their recruitment efforts. They probably view that as one of their highest priorities nowadays, especially given the fact they are being passed over for muni departments. 20 years ago, the thought of the MSP being passed over by a recruit to go with a town or even big MA City department was practically unheard of. Now it’s not as rare because a lot of cities in Massachusetts still offer the Quinn Bill incentive, the MSP losing that really put a dent in their ability to bring in interested applicants. I agree, I think DA’s offices should have some local participation, I know here in Boston (Suffolk DA) they do work with Boston PD detectives of course, but the Suffolk DA also has MSP Detectives assigned to it as well. I assume they only have MSP detectives because Suffolk County is of course more than just Boston (Chelsea, Revere and Winthrop).

Gotta get a new hiring method, have to try and get the Quinn Bill back if possible and they should try to streamline the hiring process more it takes way too long right now.
From my experience at the muni level...once you give something like that up it is almost impossible to get it back. They would have to take a hit somewhere else or take on some other responsibilities. That would cost the commonwealth a lot of money and I don’t think the majority of this state is on our side.


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From my experience at the muni level...once you give something like that up it is almost impossible to get it back. They would have to take a hit somewhere else or take on some other responsibilities. That would cost the commonwealth a lot of money and I don’t think the majority of this state is on our side.


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Oh I know, believe me, I don’t expect they will ever get the Quinn incentive back. I don’t know the reasoning behind why they lost it in the first place, I assume probably just people complaining about how much it was costing the state.

Getting it back though, if they could somehow pull that off, would be a huge win for them in recruitment and bringing people in from other professions. The average Trooper probably pulls in around $90,000 - $110,000 (not counting the big outliers) a year with OT, you couple that with anywhere from $15,000-$25,000 just for having a higher degree? You’ll start to see recruitment for them pick up real quickly. I actually think a lot of the Troopers who are “First Class” and are making asinine salaries in the range of $200,000 to $250,000, alot of those guys are from classes that graduated before they got rid of the Quinn Bill, so I think they technically still receive the incentive pay. I think that’s what the “Other” stands for on the payroll data.

In Boston (We have the Quinn Incentive) we STILL saw a 50% decrease in applications this year compared to 2017. So imagine what the State is up against.
 

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Oh I know, believe me, I don’t expect they will ever get the Quinn incentive back. I don’t know the reasoning behind why they lost it in the first place, I assume probably just people complaining about how much it was costing the state.

Getting it back though, if they could somehow pull that off, would be a huge win for them in recruitment and bringing people in from other professions. The average Trooper probably pulls in around $90,000 - $110,000 (not counting the big outliers) a year with OT, you couple that with anywhere from $15,000-$25,000 just for having a higher degree? You’ll start to see recruitment for them pick up real quickly. I actually think a lot of the Troopers who are “First Class” and are making asinine salaries in the range of $200,000 to $250,000, alot of those guys are from classes that graduated before they got rid of the Quinn Bill, so I think they technically still receive the incentive pay. I think that’s what the “Other” stands for on the payroll data.

In Boston (We have the Quinn Incentive) we STILL saw a 50% decrease in applications this year compared to 2017. So imagine what the State is up against.
Yeah a 10, 15 or 20% raise for every trooper with a degree would be expensive but you can’t say an education doesn’t make for a better trooper/officer. I’m honestly still surprised the only qualification is be 21 with a diploma. Speaking for myself only, I had no business being in this profession.


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Yeah a 10, 15 or 20% raise for every trooper with a degree would be expensive but you can’t say an education doesn’t make for a better trooper/officer. I’m honestly still surprised the only qualification is be 21 with a diploma. Speaking for myself only, I had no business being in this profession.


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There’s actually a few State departments that require bachelor degrees now. I know for a fact Texas State Police requires a bachelors degree. That’s a slippery slope to go down though, especially with recruitment in the shitter. You can barely bring qualified applicants in as it is and you’re going to start requiring bachelors degrees? Unlikely we’ll see that in this state anytime soon.

Also not for nothing, but not many people really go to college with intentions of getting into Law Enforcement after, unless you’re a Criminal Justice or maybe Sociology major. I have a degree and I’m on in Boston, but I gave the private sector a shot for a few years and it just wasn’t for me.
 

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Off rail… When I went to the FT Academy out here in CA, I had a TO seriously try and get me hurt on a scenario. I ended up taking them down so hard they blew out a knee, permanently. The TO‘s used to give me crap because I was a current Reserve at a very violent ghetto agency. Well…fuck with the PO-Leece and see what happens.
The Academy Director backed my UoF.

I ran into that cop years later when on SWAT. I blew them a little kiss as I ran by…🤣
 

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@HistoryHound I know you were interested in the dates of some of the RTT’s in this thread.. here’s everything going back to the 70th RTT.. before that would have been the Stone Age and the records are kept on stone that were chiseled in!
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@HistoryHound I know you were interested in the dates of some of the RTT’s in this thread.. here’s everything going back to the 70th RTT.. before that would have been the Stone Age and the records are kept on stone that were chiseled in! View attachment 10622
Thank you. I'm working on getting the earlier ones. Hopefully I'll be able to post them later today.
 

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Very well put together. This should be referenced for anyone who asks in the future. Coupled with the list I provided yesterday for the more recent RTT’s.
I think it helps put into perspective the length of time between classes. The photos I was sent list the people in each class. A quick average of classes is about 40ish people with the smallest being 9. Idk how to do it, but it would be nice if someone could get Powers' estate to authorize a digitized version since both books are still in copyright. IMO anyone interested in the state police should at least take a look at them. I know there have been issues in some RTTs and there is no excuse for that, but I think it would help some people understand why they do things the way they do.
 

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I think it helps put into perspective the length of time between classes. The photos I was sent list the people in each class. A quick average of classes is about 40ish people with the smallest being 9. Idk how to do it, but it would be nice if someone could get Powers' estate to authorize a digitized version since both books are still in copyright. IMO anyone interested in the state police should at least take a look at them. I know there have been issues in some RTTs and there is no excuse for that, but I think it would help some people understand why they do things the way they do.
Also found this which shows more data on the tests and how many people were contacted, processed and how many academies came off each exam. Apparently, according to this (Senate Document) the MSP have always tried to get three classes off each exam. The only time since the 2002 exam they had three classes was recently on the 2017 list (84th, 85th and now the 86th). Gotta think with the way the department heads are talking this 2021 exam will almost certainly have three classes off of it.

What’s more noticeable is the drop in interested applicants. 1992 had almost 17K people, whereas 2017 has 6.5K. I would bet good money this 2021 exam will have less than 6.5K too.

For anyone reading this who is interested in the State Police, there’s never been a better opportunity to get in.
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I know there have been issues in some RTTs and there is no excuse for that, but I think it would help some people understand why they do things the way they do.
Cultures at academies goes through phases. Clearly the culture during the 78th and 79th RTT’s were not good and not something that should be condoned. Was it probably going on before the 78th and 79th? Yeah, probably, but it’s not now and that’s what’s important I suppose.

There’s pushing recruits and trainees to their absolute maximum physically and mentally to build them back up again.. and then there was whatever that was at the academies back in the 78th and 79th. That type of thing doesn’t help someone become a better Trooper.
 

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Maybe they'll call my department too! I'll be back there on vacation starting next week. Maybe I could do a few details while I'm there. I've never done one but I'm happy to help out while I'm there!
Do you have a blue light permit?? If you don't I know a guy, thats knows another guy that owes him a favor...
 

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Cultures at academies goes through phases. Clearly the culture during the 78th and 79th RTT’s were not good and not something that should be condoned. Was it probably going on before the 78th and 79th? Yeah, probably, but it’s not now and that’s what’s important I suppose.

There’s pushing recruits and trainees to their absolute maximum physically and mentally to build them back up again.. and then there was whatever that was at the academies back in the 78th and 79th. That type of thing doesn’t help someone become a better Trooper.
Yeah that was poorly worded. I probably should have made more of a distinction between learning and understanding the traditions and history of MSP and the problems that occurred in some classes.
 

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How about the weak minded can’t make the academy. You have to be psychologically ready and want to make it no matter what. All weak people can’t do it. It’s like all the people that are drooling to get a full time certification through a bridge academy because they were too weak and not dedicated to do the right thing and attend a recruit academy on order to become full time.


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How about the weak minded can’t make the academy. You have to be psychologically ready and want to make it no matter what. All weak people can’t do it. It’s like all the people that are drooling to get a full time certification through a bridge academy because they were too weak and not dedicated to do the right thing and attend a recruit academy on order to become full time.


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I don’t think wearing dirty underwear on your head or being okay with getting your head shoved in a toilet shows your mentally strong. It shows that person has no self worth or self confidence.

That has absolutely nothing to do with mental strength. If anything, I’d say someone who allows that to happen to themselves is mentally fragile and vulnerable. There’s plenty of mentally strong people who have passed through that academy without getting soiled underwear put on their head or some other demeaning act.
 
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