Would You Take A Pay Cut To Save Jobs?

Discussion in 'Pay, Benefits & Contract Discussions' started by StbbrnMedic, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    Excellent point. It would be contract busting if those give-backs weren't formally TEMPORARY, in writing as only being a stop gap measure that would be reinstated when financial stability was reestablished. That's just a guess.

    Delta could definately give a more difinitive answer on that, but I can't see it being contract busting if you've got that whole agreement legally in writing, but damn, it would have the appearence of it.

    The credibility issue; well, we've all started to balance our check books and found small glitches that we hadn't anticipated, it can happen to a city or town as well, but they would definately hurt their credibility if it happened more than once and a real good scrutiny of the books would be in order.

    Just my :2c: Question EVERYTHING.
  2. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    Are the concessions temporary or permanent?
  3. Johnny Law

    Johnny Law Nemo me impune lacessit Staff Member

    Just got the "word" today that we are looking at a loss of 12, 6 in the academy now and 6 junior guys.
  4. kwflatbed

    kwflatbed Subscribing Member MC1+MC2 +MC3 111K+Poster

    Two mayors, two crises, two opposing plans

    Posted Mar 07, 2009 @ 06:58 PM
    Last update Mar 07, 2009 @ 08:51 PM
    Fall River —
    In early 2003, the city — under former Mayor Edward M. Lambert Jr. — faced major cutbacks in state aid at mid-year, similar to the current fiscal crisis that resulted in 149 layoffs Monday.

    Police pledge cooperation amid cuts

    Last update Mar 07, 2009 @ 08:48 PM
    Fall River —
    As the Police Department grapples with layoffs that resulted in the loss of 52 uniformed officers and another nine civilian positions, Chief John M. Souza said everybody will be asked to fill new roles.

    Chief warns of longer response times

    Last update Mar 07, 2009 @ 08:48 PM
  5. sdb29

    sdb29 MassCops Member

    I'm out of work for a couple of days. As soon as I go back I'll get an answer to that.
  6. Delta784

    Delta784 Guest

    Quincy Police OK wage freeze


    By Jennifer Mann
    The Patriot Ledger
    Posted Mar 09, 2009 @ 08:21 PM
    Last update Mar 09, 2009 @ 09:35 PM

    By Jennifer Mann

    The Patriot Ledger
    Posted Mar 09, 2009 @ 08:21 PM
    Last update Mar 09, 2009 @ 09:35 PM

    QUINCY —
    The Quincy police patrol officers’ union is the the latest group of city workers to sacrifice a salary increase in order to help the city’s budget.

    The vote by the union, which has approximately 150 members, will save the city $250,000 in salary costs and probably an equal amount in overtime not worked and other differentials that will be forfeited, according to city officials.

    “We accepted the wage freeze overwhelmingly,” said Bruce Tait, president of the Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association. “The vote wasn’t even close.”

    Mayor Thomas Koch has asked all 2,400 city employees to accept one-year wage freezes to help deal with flagging local revenues and an expected $4.5 cut in state aid in the new budget year.

    Other cities and towns, including Boston, have asked their employees to do the same.

    In Quincy, the fire department and crossing guards were the first two groups to accept the wage freeze, followed last week by the Quincy Public Employees Association, which is made up mostly of clerical workers and custodians.

    Whether they approve the wage freeze or not, city workers will each get a $300 pay increase this summer for agreeing to join the state-run health insurance plan.

    Koch has said that even with salaries frozen for a year, layoffs could still be necessary.
  7. fra444

    fra444 MassCops Member

    Thats great! WTG Quincy Officers!
  8. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    It's not an easy thing, but it's the honorable thing.
  9. SinePari

    SinePari Needs more complaints

    Funny how some large departments have a few dinosaurs calling their reps bitching about things that affect their own personal finances, but could care less about the future of the whole job. The voices of a few relics, who could retire any time they want to, are sending this job down the crapper.

    Nice work Delta, other associations should take note of such an accomplishment.
  10. kwflatbed

    kwflatbed Subscribing Member MC1+MC2 +MC3 111K+Poster

    Viveiros: Job cuts were avoidable

    By Michael Holtzman
    Herald News Staff Reporter
    Posted Mar 10, 2009 @ 11:30 PM
    Last update Mar 11, 2009 @ 12:27 AM

    Fall River —

    With the vast majority of the 53 police officers who lost their jobs on one side of the council chambers and 45 firefighters in yellow T-shirts reading “Proud Laid Off Firefighter” on the other, City Councilor Cathy Ann Viveiros told them what they wanted to hear Tuesday night.

    Referring to the $2.9 million mid-year state reductions called “9C” cuts, Viveiros declared: “We have the financial capacity to address the 9C cuts without layoffs.”

    In a half-hour presentation that almost never began, Viveiros detailed expenses and revenues for this year and fiscal 2010 that she said showed how to reach the needed funding cut.
    “We have options. We have alternatives available to us. I believe there was a rush to judgment,” Viveiros said.

    In her conclusion, about an hour after Mayor Robert Correia finished a 15-minute State of the City address, she called upon him “to rescind the layoffs” while they find alternatives.

    She said the city could find $3.55 million this year from five sources to offset the needed cuts, including $1.95 million from health insurance claims being 6.5 percent lower than projected, a figure she said administrators confirmed.

    City receipts are running $600,000 over projections. Other cuts the administration made were $461,000 from 8.57 percent salary reductions his staff and most department heads accepted and $395,000 by not filling vacant jobs.

    Viveiros cited the recent $600,000 federal police grant, which she said could be spread out over fiscal 2010, providing $150,000 this year.

    The $2.9 million needed in reduced aid this year increases to $3,275,200 with additional aid needed for veterans. But the $3.55 million total she listed is $280,752 more than what the city must cut, Viveiros said.

    She offered a similar list of sources of revenue and funds needed to reach next year’s expected reduction in state aid. In that listing, Viveiros said the city could show $5,692,192 in revenues and expense cuts, while needing to raise nearly $5.9 million.

    That scenario includes using the $1.9 million the city plans to take from the stabilization account this year to fund unemployment and severance pay for 149 municipal workers being laid off. It also utilizes flexibility she said the state may allow over several years under the Municipal Partnership Act to limit the burden.

    Councilors Michael B. Lund and Linda M. Pereira said they’ve been told the state could announce greater cuts required by cities and towns this year and next.

    In the detailed summary, Viveiros said the city would be short about $206,000 in fiscal 2010. She also said the city could add $3.2 million by raising taxes 5 percent.

    In what are generally used for one-time expenses, she estimated “free cash” available in the near future at $2 million and available stabilization funds at $500,000.

    While Viveiros’ presentation was by far the most extensive, several other councilors weighed on the fiscal crisis. They also voted to extend the Committee on Finance meeting, when the discussion took place, to March 23 at 6 p.m. to address layoff alternatives at Councilor Linda M. Pereira’s suggestion.

    “I don’t want to see us wait too long,” Pereira said.

    Councilor Michael B. Lund said the council and unions are “uncomfortable” with explanations they’ve received about the layoffs. He said spending nearly $4 million to fix dams and a similar amount to buy vehicles “should be put on hold.”

    He called for “a fresh start and perhaps get these people back to work.”

    Vice President Raymond E. Hague was more direct in his criticism.

    “It’s become a power struggle. It’s become an all or nothing,” he said of Correia.
    He called the negotiations the administration conducted akin to: “You want to buy your job? We’re selling it for 8½ percent (pay cuts).”

    Hague said he “implores the administration” to transfer funds from stabilization accounts to save public safety and other jobs and retain the trained workers the city paid to reach those levels.

  11. kwflatbed

    kwflatbed Subscribing Member MC1+MC2 +MC3 111K+Poster

    Police officers appealing public safety cuts


    Herald News
    Patrolman Adam Katz asks a question about seniority lists during Wednesday's hearing. Appointed in 2002, Katz is a city resident and father of five.

    By Michael Holtzman
    Herald News Staff Reporter
    Posted Mar 11, 2009 @ 08:50 PM
    Last update Mar 11, 2009 @ 08:51 PM

    Fall River —

    About 40 of what is now listed as 48 laid-off police officers attended two required hearings under Civil Service Monday at police headquarters to determine whether the city’s financial problems required those layoffs.

    Those layoffs are being appealed, said Boston attorney Joseph G. Sandulli, who is representing Local 1854 of the Massachusetts Coalition of Police.

    The layoffs — which will also cut 45 firefighters — go into effect Friday as part of nearly 150 municipal layoffs, Mayor Robert Correia announced after the state imposed $2.9 million in midyear cutbacks.

    Police Chief John M. Souza, who also served as hearing officer, said he would render a decision on the union’s appeal by Friday. If denied, the layoffs would remain in place while an appeal to the Civil Service Commission progresses, officials said.

    The hearing for Local 1314 of the International Association of Firefighters was scheduled for today at 9 a.m. at the Commerce Way headquarters.

    Souza stipulated the city’s financial conditions. “The city does not and will not have sufficient funds to pay the current complement of police officers,” Souza said at the hearing, which Sandulli requested be open to the press and public.

    Sandulli, who is also general counsel for the state union, listed procedural and financial reasons for his appeal under state Civil Service law.

    Those objections included Souza’s dual role as administrative appointee of the terminated officers and hearing officer, and the fact that all officers had not been served, including two in the military in Iraq, one of whom was injured in a crash and is recovering at Walter Reed Hospital in Maryland. Any laid-off officer with seniority above those not properly notified would not be subjected to a layoff, Sandulli said.

    Officers with up to 10 years of service on the city department have been issued layoff notices under the Civil Service seniority system. Those officers with 10 to 40 percent veterans disabilities are not subject to layoffs, Souza said. The union objected to one of the six officers falling into that category because of a lack of information.

    Souza listed the city’s financial inability to retain the officers as stated in a memo written that day by City Administrator Adam W. Chapdelaine. It said the city’s $127.55 million state aid allocation included $29,658,913 for general government that was reduced $2,890,146 — or 9.74 percent — by Gov. Deval Patrick’s “9C” cuts.

    Chapdelaine listed $839,734 the city saved through one-time expense cuts while leaving 10 positions vacant and listing one retirement.

    Further cuts the city said were necessary were in personnel, including a $1,055,619 for police, a 5.3 percent cut from its budget of just under $20 million.

    Since Chapdelaine was not present and could not be cross-examined, Sandulli called that information “hearsay.”

    The city was represented by Corporation Counsel Arthur D. Frank Jr., Human Resources Director Madeline Coelho and Executive Director of the Fall River Retirement Board Christine Tetreault.

    Before the hearing, Frank said the city had placed the status of the two officers serving in Iraq in abeyance because they are entitled to a hearing and could not attend.

    “It’s not that we want the two guys in Iraq laid off,” Local 1854 President Michael Perreira said. “We want the procedure done correctly.”

    A portion of the hearing centered on two federal grant programs, slated to bring $2 billion and $1 billion to retain or rehire police, according to Souza and Sandulli.

    The Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant — the larger grant President Obama signed into law — “is $2 billion. That’s two and nine zeroes,” Sandulli said.

    The local share, he noted, is $606,943, with the potential for more going to cities and towns with high crime rates, like Fall River. That amount could fund “10 to 12 officers for a full year,” Sandulli said.

    The $1 billion Community Oriented Policing Services recovery grant is targeted at hiring 5,500 law enforcement officers with benefits for entry-level or rehired officers lost as a result of local budget cuts, Sandulli said.

    “The availability of those grants ought to save a substantial number of these jobs at this time,” he said.

    Earlier, Souza addressed his officers and the efforts he was making to obtain available and needed funds.

    “This police department and administration will continue to do whatever is possible to bring back as many police officers as possible,” Souza said.

    He said through Diman Regional Vocational Technical High School offering to pay for its school resource officer, one layoff was avoided. Another was saved by the Fall River Housing Authority adding $100,000 to its community policing program, he said.

    Souza emphasized that while hearings for the two officers serving in the military is held in abeyance, no additional officers were being laid off.

    He said Monday is the first day to apply for the COPS grant, and the department will submit the application that day. He said they’d seek funds to bring back the 48-member complement for three years the grant allows.

    He said the $606,000 in city funds under the JAG grant should be available soon, and he will be in touch with Mayor Correia’s office to obtain those funds. The grant is issued through 15 Bristol County municipalities, all of which must apply for funds.

    Souza said he would also speak with Correia about savings identified Tuesday night by City Councilor Cathy Ann Viveiros to offset layoffs.

    Souza decried the $3 billion allocated for law enforcement from the $787 billion federal stimulus package appropriated. He said he’d ask congressional leaders to do more.

    Coelho spoke with officers about obtaining unemployment and health insurance benefits as a result of their layoffs. Tetreault discussed their pensions, urging officers not to withdraw them, stating that would be beneficial in the event they are rehired. She noted the 20 percent tax they’d pay, plus 10 percent penalties as a result of early withdrawals.

    Public safety officers need to reach age 55 and have 10 years of eligible service to avoid penalties, she said.

  12. Irishpride

    Irishpride Subscribing Member

    The $606k from the JAG grant was used to save 8 more jobs for the PD, leaving the final total of lay-offs to 40 police officers (I don't know the exact numbers for the FD). As the article states the union president is hoping that the COPS grant will come through in June and that will bring most (if not all) of us back to work.
  13. kwflatbed

    kwflatbed Subscribing Member MC1+MC2 +MC3 111K+Poster

    Eight police officer layoffs rescinded

    By Michael Holtzman and Will Richmond
    Herald News Staff Reporters
    Posted Mar 13, 2009 @ 01:25 PM
    Last update Mar 13, 2009 @ 09:08 PM

    Fall River —

    Mayor Robert Correia confirmed Friday he’d put eight laid-off police officers back on their jobs as a result of $606,943 the city expects to receive from the federal Edward Byrne Justice Assistant Grant program.

    Saving the eight jobs reduces the number of police layoffs to 40 and the city’s overall layoff total to 136, according to Correia’s office.

    “I’m elated,” said Police Chief John M. Souza, who was given the go-ahead Friday morning to notify the returning officers, some of whom will resume shifts Friday night.

    Forty five firefighters were being laid off Friday, according to the city’s latest figures.

    The police union has urged Correia to expend the JAG funds for the next 15 months to save the maximum number of jobs. Originally, Correia said the expected funds would ensure funds to hire two officers over three- to four-year period.

    Correia said the city restored the jobs in partnership with the police union, Local 1854 of the Massachusetts Coalition of Police. “Our collaboration this week put eight police officers back to work,” Correia said in a statement.

    “By working together with the mayor we decided we would use the money now,” Patrolman Michael Perreira, Local 1854 president, said after Correia released the news.

    “We need officers on the street now,” Perreira said.

    Under the federal stimulus package, the JAG funds provide $2 billion nationwide to bolster police departments harmed by funding cuts.

    Fall River’s state aid was cut $2.9 in mid-year, which led to these layoffs, Correia has said since announcing the layoffs two weeks ago.

    “The lines of communication will remain open as we continue looking into other federal grant opportunities that can help put public safety personnel back on the job,” Correia said.

    The call backs followed required Civil Service hearings Wednesday and Thursday for nearly all of the 93 laid off police and firefighters. Both unions have appealed the layoffs.

    Souza said the eight call-backs will place seven officers in their uniform division and return Patrolman Brett Kimball, the 2004 Massachusetts Officer of the Year, to the Gang Resistance Education and Training program.

    Kimball, who’s won many meritorious awards, received sustained applause at Tuesday night’s City Council meeting when it was announced he had removed 67 guns off city streets. Laid off police and firefighters attended that meeting and urged the council to stop the layoffs and performed an honor roll to highlight each of the officers losing their jobs.

    “Brett has been able to distinguish himself significantly,” Souza said, while praising all of the officers laid off as contributors. “Making those (eight) phone calls was a pleasure,” he said.
    He called the phone calls “bitter sweet” with 40 patrolmen laid off. “It’s a step in the right direction,” he said.

    “We brought back two last week, eight today. We’ll try to keep chipping away to bring them back.”

    He said returning seven officers to uniformed ranks will enable the complement of patrol cars to be increased from 10 to 11 and sometimes 12 depending upon needs. The department had been using 12 to 14 patrol cars per shift.

    Souza said on Monday that he’d issue an application for the maximum allowed under a $1 billion Community Oriented Policing Services grant.

    Besides Kimball, the seven uniformed patrolmen returning to the force are Kevin Bshara, Adam Katz, Daniel Mello, Matthew Pacheco, Michael Pessoa, Eric Cabral and Rory McCoomb.

    Eight police officer layoffs rescinded - Fall River, MA - The Herald News
  14. fra444

    fra444 MassCops Member

    I am thrilled that this brings those 8 officers back! Congratulations guys.
  15. StbbrnMedic

    StbbrnMedic fraggle tamer

    I'm so glad to hear it. That's awesome.
  16. 94c

    94c Subscribing Member

    That's very interesting. I know of a similar city that is getting about the same amount of JAG money but,
    they're still looking to bring people back through paycuts.
  17. fra444

    fra444 MassCops Member

    UN F-ING real!!
  18. SinePari

    SinePari Needs more complaints

    I read this as, "we won't stick it all the way up your ass...just the tip".
  19. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    I am privileged to be on a committee to find a way to save 6 jobs. We have some ideas as does the administration. Their idea sucks. We're looking for a good one. Wish us luck.
  20. SinePari

    SinePari Needs more complaints

    Get rid of 2 admin people to pay for the 6 (officers, I assume).
  21. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    Don't think THAT idea hasn't been bounced around!
  22. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    Six jobs were saved by way of a Detail Platoon. A compromise was met. It was an agonizing couple of weeks but in the end, we were getting the DP like it or not, but we overwhelmingly voted FOR it. Had we voted against it, we would have gotten it anyway but with no little extras thrown in for the troops.

    This was actually an honest attempt at the administration to hold on to people instead of tossing them out. I haven't become a cheerleader for the admin, but I HAVE to give them credit here. They were told to shave a certain amount from the budget. PERIOD. They were told they could come up with a way. The union was approached and we (the e-board and a subcommittee) tried to come up with an alternative to the DP. None made up enough money but we took their proposal and refined it more to suit our tastes and a decent compromise was realized.

    The MOST important thing was, 6 people are still employed and the union membership, on the whole, looks good for working hard to keep them.

    It's still going to be a bumpy ride, but at least that's something good.
  23. SinePari

    SinePari Needs more complaints

    For us neophytes explain what a Detail Platoon is. I know what a DP :p is, but not a Detail Platoon.
  24. Kilvinsky

    Kilvinsky I think, therefore I'll never be promoted.

    'twas an abv.

    This is how it will work. The six officers will work details as their shift. The contractors will still pay the detail rate plus the administrative fee. The total amount collected by the department will cover the salaries and benefits of those in the Detail Platoon, or DP as I'm going to call it to save typing, other than this long explaination anyway.

    This WILL cut into the amount of details available to the rest of us, but we've been getting a fair number as it is, plus the local PD has opened up the chance to cover any of their unfilled details in the area of the university. This is something that has been offered before but was balked at by our chief.

    The DP will be staffed by the six lowest in seniority unless volunteers with MORE seniority come forward.

    There's more to this, but this is the basic. Again, bottom line, we saved 6 jobs without cutting our heads off. It's the best we could do and it's not all that bad all things considered.

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