What to do?

Discussion in 'Massachusetts Employment' started by Coughlin1, Jun 7, 2012.

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  1. SgtAndySipowicz Supporting Member

    I believe Civilians can do a decent job. I have spoken with Officers from other depts that have decent Civilians. Our job is, shall we say, a bit behind as far as Civilian performance (I know first hand). There are a few good ones, but I would say that most wouldn't cut it elsewhere, just my opinion. It appears to me that most are concerned with hanging up the phone (as if it is on fire) versus getting much need details to the responding Officers. Most never ask for a name (kind of important for reliability of a witness). Most never ask for detailed descriptions etc. I've witnessed similar to this "there was just a robbery at such and such bank". Civilian: "OK, we will send someone right over (hangs up)". No description, weapon etc etc. This ocurs a LOT where we work, as I am sure you know (again, not all of them)......
    SgtAndySipowicz, Jun 25, 2012
    #76

  2. Kilvinsky Will Work for Beer

    We have civilians and some are excellent, some, eh. All have a bad night (or day I guess) now and then but unlike Delta, I've been suggesting 1 civilian and 1 officer inside. Our wagon is currently used as a patrol vehicle most of the time but as I see it, incorrectly. Instead of it being a regular sector vehicle, leave it to the 6-2 people, otherwise it should sit until needed at the station. WHEN needed, the officer on the desk can take it out plus you'll have someone with street experience in there with the dispatchers most of the time.

    We have our WC on the desk and there's only a window and door between he/she and the dispatchers, so it's not like they can't chip in, but....

    Also, I'm getting older and tireder and the thought of getting to stay inside all shift instead of being out in the cold, snow, rain, heat, etc. is starting to appeal to me! I'm a selfish son of a bitch.
    Kilvinsky, Jun 25, 2012
    #77

  3. 263FPD Administrator

    SJC tattooed on your arm isn't that big a deal. Just explain to them that you love the criminal justice system so much, that you tattooed yourself with at the acronym for the Supreme Judicial Court.

    http://www.mass.gov/courts/sjc/


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    263FPD, Jun 25, 2012
    #78
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  4. Agent Stan Smith MassCops Member

    I have tested with quite a few departments in NH and while many have strict policies regarding tattoos, I have noticed a few which did not, most recent in memory is Atkinson. One of the hiring officers had tattoos on both forearms.
    Agent Stan Smith, Jun 25, 2012
    #79

  5. Coughlin1 MassCops Member

    I'm not sure sarcasm would get me anywhere. But I guess when Im already at the bottom it really wouldn't make a difference haha...
    Coughlin1, Jun 25, 2012
    #80
    263FPD likes this.

  6. 263FPD Administrator

    Funny, sarcasm gets me everywhere.


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    263FPD, Jun 25, 2012
    #81
    USMCMP5811, GARDA, frank and 1 other person like this.

  7. Delta784 Acting Stupidly

    What goes up my ass sideways is when someone calls dispatch with an obvious edge to their voice, and they're told "Stand-by, I'm on the phone".

    1) There are about 6-7 people assigned to communications. There is absolutely, positively NO REASON why there is only 1 person free to operate the radio. The communications sergeant needs to drop the hammer on the "Cigarette Club" where everyone goes out for an extended smoke break at the same time.

    2) The officers on the street are THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY of dispatchers. If an officer calls dispatch, let the fucking phones ring off the hook.....make sure they're okay before you pick-up a receiver.

    As an FTO, I tell my n00bs that if they need something immediately, just put it out over the air without waiting for dispatch to respond. The rest of us will hear it and will come ASAP, while the dispatchers in the Cancer Club will either be outside sucking on a butt, or are preoccupied on the phone with someone complaining about their neighbor who parks in front of their house (on a public street).

    <rant off>
    Delta784, Jun 25, 2012
    #82
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  8. Herrdoktor MassCops Member


    I love calling teletype or the warrants desk at communications and getting attitude. Makes me want to break my fucking cell phone every time. I didn't mean to interrupt your inhaling 5 twinkies at a time session

    Also you could not be more right about the cigarette club bullshit. We actually don't have an officer/sgt. working at communcations and sometimes I wish we did so they could cut down on some of the bullshit calls we have to respond to. Dog barking? Too fucking bad, it's saturday night and we are too busy.

    Weirdly though there is a Fire LT. working at communications on their side of the building. Other than coordinating the occasional 3-5 alarm fire he doesn't do much other than hate life because of boredom.
    Herrdoktor, Jun 25, 2012
    #83
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  9. LA Copper Subscribing Member

    We have no sworn officers assigned to work a communications' console at the LAPD. All of our dispatchers are civilians and they do an excellent job. Very rarely are there any problems with them but when there is, anyone, officer or supervisor, can call or go there and find out what happened.

    This is because they are all well trained with supervisors monitoring them. They only take a break when their regular assigned break comes up. If an "emergency" bathroom break is needed, that's taken care of but as far as "smoke breaks" go, there are none. Sounds like supervision needs to do their job at your agency related to dispatchers.
    LA Copper, Jun 25, 2012
    #84
    SgtAndySipowicz and Joel98 like this.

  10. LA Copper Subscribing Member

    This is the way we do it. If we need something in a hurry or an emergency, we don't wait for the dispatcher (we call them RTOs) to answer, we just put it out and know that it's incumbent upon both the dispatchers and the other officers to be listening. It's worked for us since long before I came on the job.

    As I mentioned earlier, if the dispatchers themselves won't do their job properly, then the dispatching supervision needs to do theirs.
    LA Copper, Jun 25, 2012
    #85
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  11. niteowl1970 Moderator

    I've had people call the business line to report cardiac arrests in progress, people choking, and unresponsive persons. In those situations where time is of the essence letting the phone ring down could delay response time and pre-arrival instructions and be the difference between life and death. There have been dispatchers (police officers and firemen too) across the country fired and sued personally for failure to act. A PSAP operator has a responsibility to the caller as well as the police, fire, and EMS, personnel responding to the calls. This is the stance of State 911 and most departments I've talked to.It's the cornerstone of national dispatcher training from companies like Powerphone, APCO, and Priority Dispatch.

    I value the police officers that I work with and I do make it my # 1priority to get them home safe to their families after every shift, but we also have to make sure people calling 911 or the business line with legitimate calls are taken care of too. I do my best to balance this every shift I work but it's tough when your alone in dispatch.

    I agree 100% about the smokers and making sure the officer is alright before answering the telephone. I always make sure I do it but I was a CJ major in college and I've been to the R/I Academy and I dispatch mostly police officers at my full-time job so I know officer safety is paramount. I've met some dispatchers that have not had any LE exposure prior to becoming a dispatcher and I think I know exactly the kind of dispatcher you're talking about and I don't like working with them any more than you do.
    niteowl1970, Jun 25, 2012
    #86

  12. Delta784 Acting Stupidly

    Unfortunately, a lot of supervisors on our job are more concerned with being "good shits" than being supervisors.

    The huge problem with our operation is that there is no designated dispatcher. When I first got on, the dispatcher(s) were sworn officers, who sat in a separate room (divided by a glass wall) from the call-takers, and the officer was the only one who got on the air. That system worked perfectly, because the dispatcher knew he had to give 100% attention to the radio.It worked perfectly, so of course they had to change it.

    Now, whoever takes the 911 call dispatches it (or is supposed to), so everyone assumes everyone else is listening, and we sometimes get dispatched to the same call by 3 different people in a row. No one knows what the hell is going on, and the communications sergeant either ignores it, or is busy playing Angry Birds or something.
    Delta784, Jun 25, 2012
    #87
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  13. Delta784 Acting Stupidly

    I couldn't give a rat's ass what Powerphone, APCO, and Priority Dispatch says.....when an officer is on a B&E in Progress call and calls dispatch, "Stand-by, I'm on the phone" is NOT the appropriate response.

    And yes, that actually happened to one of my sector partners one night.
    Delta784, Jun 25, 2012
    #88
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  14. niteowl1970 Moderator

    I agree that is an inappropriate response, but we both get Monday Morning Quarterbacked and in many cases someone will find fault with either answering the officer first or answering the phone first and in these situations there has to be common sense and sadly many of my peers don't have it. I'll give you that point all day. You may not like dispatch training companies (for obvious reasons) but country, state, and municipal departments as well as Mass 911give a shit about these companies and are taking their training curriculum as the gospel and putting it right into their SOP's and if the dispatchers that are receiving this training don't give a shit about policy and procedures and do their own thing then they open themselves up to suspension, termination, and possibly civil liability. On that note the word liability is being wielded like a sword against civilian and sworn dispatchers alike. I'm not here to argue with you and a matter of fact I agree with you when it comes to protecting police officers. I'm just telling you Mass 911's stance and standard of training it's giving to dispatchers. We are taught that we have a responsibility to both the officer and the caller and we have to quickly decide who's the priority. The bigger problem is that many departments won't shell out the money for multiple dispatchers on shift which in my opinion endangers the first responders and citizens alike.

    BTW Starting next Monday EMD pre-arrival instructions become mandatory for all PSAP's. watch the clusterfuck start. Lots of departments don't even have written policies yet.
    niteowl1970, Jun 26, 2012
    #89
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  15. GARDA Subscribing Member

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    GARDA, Jun 26, 2012
    #90
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  16. topcop14 Subscribing Member

    What is this, dispatcher supervision you speak of?
    topcop14, Jun 26, 2012
    #91
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  17. niteowl1970 Moderator

    [IMG]
    niteowl1970, Jun 26, 2012
    #92

  18. topcop14 Subscribing Member

    Niteowl I think the point Delta was trying to make is that dispatchers should never blindly say "stand buy" to officers calling in on the radio. Thaty would be like answereing 911 and putting it on hold. Lets face it the vast magority of calles received on 911 or the phone are pure bull shit. Yes we do get emergency calls and even if you are on one one should be able to tell the caller to stand by and answere the radio. Now once the dispatcher knows that the radio traffic is not of a priority then tell the office to stand by.

    I was a dispatcher before I was a cop and I continue to fill in on the desk. I went to EMD this spring and at no time did the guy from powerphone tell anyone to tell officers on the street to stand by without knowing why they were calling in.
    topcop14, Jun 26, 2012
    #93
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  19. HistoryHound MassCops Member

    That any 911 call center would only have one person on duty at a time is ridiculous. I know some places are less busy than others, but that's no excuse to not have sufficient staffing in the event of multiple situations at a time. It puts the officers at risk, the public at risk and it sets the dispatcher up for liability when someone gets hurt because the call center was understaffed. No matter how good someone is, you can only do so much by yourself. As for the issue with smokers, why is it that they get to take 5 and 6 breaks a shift and that they all get to go out together? It made things a pain in the ass where I used to work, so I can only imagine the pain in the ass it would be in a 911 call center.
    HistoryHound, Jun 26, 2012
    #94

  20. SgtAndySipowicz Supporting Member

    With all due respect sir....... I am sure you are good at what you do. However, any good Cop (I would hope and pray Civilians too) is going to look out for other Cops first and foremost. We Cops put our ass on the line (Civilian Dispatchers don't) day in and day out. You shouldn't get into this line of work if your main concern is always liability. We need to be able to look in the mirror and know we did the right thing regardless if some scumbag ambulance chaser decides to sue us.

    The other day another agency's Officer called for assistance in my city's center (he is fine). The way I drove to that call is a bit more risky than the way I drive to a property crime call. Could I have crashed? Yes. Can I look into the mirror and feel good about how I drove to the assistance call? 100% yes, no regrets. If I was concerned about liability on this call, would I just drive 30 MPH? Would the Officer in need of assistance be ok like he is today (in total about 15 from my agency responded)? If I did drive 30 MPH to this call and another Officer witnesses that I did such, would I deserve a punch in my face? Yes.

    As far as the phone calls. Sadly, you are probably correct about being sued if you choose the Officer over that 911 call. The morally correct thing is to answer the Officer 1st and then the phones (maybe not what the public thinks, but what most of us who do the job think). As delta said, we once had a system that worked (2 Cops in seperate room handled radio only). In a cost cutting measure by clueless brass that never has to work in Communications, they changed it to all in one room. Now the Cop dispatcher is expected to answer 911's and do the radio too. Like delta said there is many cases where 3 different call takers answer the radio. It's becomes a real clusterfuck when things get busy, especially when 2 or 3 of the civilians have left the room to smoke. The liability SHOULD be with the brass who changed a system that worked for $$$$$$ reasons. In reality, the call taker/Police Dispatcher would probably take the hit.

    As LACopper mentioned, it does come down to supervision. As Delta said, many of our supervisors are more concerned with being "good shits". It is my observation that people need to be supervised or they become laxed. I think most will do the job better when there is a little bit of fear that they may be written up/corrective action if they don't do things correctly (it makes one use their brain cells a little more)......I have seen soooooo many MAJOR screwups in communications over the years. Most are NEVER addressed by a Supv. Things just continue on, business as usual (which in our case is not very good).......
    SgtAndySipowicz, Jun 26, 2012
    #95
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  21. niteowl1970 Moderator

    I know and I respect and agree with Delta's position on the subject which is based on his many years of service. I ended up going off on a tangent about how the public safety community is throwing money at these dispatch training companies. I took the EMD class too and the instructor talked a lot about not letting calls ring down. I pray that no dispatch center in this state gets an ABC new story like the Chicago PD did in that video we were shown in class. As I said I'm not trying to start a fight here I just think that the dispatcher has a duty to both the caller and the first responder and if a dispatcher is stupid enough to leave his/her officers swinging in the wind during a hot call then fire them and get someone else in their chair. I don't defend bad dispatchers... ever.
    niteowl1970, Jun 26, 2012
    #96

  22. niteowl1970 Moderator

    I agree with that point and that's a training issue that rarely gets addressed...Some Departments don't give a rats ass about their officers by their policies or lack of. Sometimes it seems that they would much rather see an officer get injured then have to deal with a civilian complaint and lawsuit. All I'm saying is that dispatchers have to walk a fine line between the two and It's not an easy job. 6 hours of light volume can be followed by an hour or more of straight chaos. I try to keep everyone safe and I'm always sure to filter out the "my neighbor is having a tag sale without a permit" calls from the officers making a building entry call.
    niteowl1970, Jun 26, 2012
    #97

  23. Coughlin1 MassCops Member

    How about looking into auxiliary police? Would thatbe a good way to getmy foot into the door? If so, does anyone know of a list that shows all cities that have an auxiliary police department? I'm not too sure if Malden, Revere, orMelrose offer. Any suggestions?
    Coughlin1, Jun 26, 2012
    #98

  24. USMCMP5811 Administrator

    For the final time. Just as it's been said to you in here and the other thread, APPLY EVERYWHERE, TAKE EVERY TEST, GRAB THE FIRST OFFER THAT COMES ALONG AS A RESULT!

    Unless you have multiple departments knocking down your door, Beggers can't be choosers...... :rolleyes:
    USMCMP5811, Jun 26, 2012
    #99
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  25. niteowl1970 Moderator

    I think the majority of members in here recommended the military. Of the recent hires from some of the departments in my area 90% of them have one thing in common... Veteran status.

    I'd still recommend the dispatch route just remember to stay away from the bad influences. You'll know who they are pretty quick.
    niteowl1970, Jun 26, 2012
    #100
    263FPD likes this.
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