Police lockdown drill at Methuen school angers some

Discussion in 'New England' started by kwflatbed, May 25, 2012.

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  1. kwflatbed Subscribing Member MC1+MC2 +MC3 83K+Poster

    kwflatbed, May 25, 2012
    #1

  2. Irishpride Subscribing Member

    Of course there should be advance notice. After all an active shooter always notifies the parents of students well before their coming to the school to shoot it up. I bet most of these parents who wanted advance notice would have kept their kids home because they wouldn't want their kid scared by the SWAT team. They don't understand that drills like this saves lives
    Irishpride, May 25, 2012
    #2
    zm88, mtc, LawMan3 and 4 others like this.

  3. USMCMP5811 Administrator


    But, but, but, It's for the children.......
    USMCMP5811, May 26, 2012
    #3

  4. lofu Subscribing Member

    The patents who are complaining are prob the same ones who call 911 when their 8 year old throws a tantrum about going to school.
    lofu, May 26, 2012
    #4
    mtc likes this.

  5. sgthoskins Teufelhunden

    Nothing like a little fear mongering to keep all the sheep in line right?

    Absolutely no reason for this bullshit. Lockdowns are a fucking joke.
    sgthoskins, May 26, 2012
    #5
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  6. Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis"

    Really. Someone want to explain to me again how it benefits kids to deliberately trap them in a location with a whackjob set on murder while responders mill about outside where it's "safe"?
    Wolfman, May 26, 2012
    #6
    Hush likes this.

  7. Irishpride Subscribing Member

    The Secret Service did a comprehensive threat assessment after Columbine that recommended lockdowns for two major reasons:
    1. Once a classroom is locked down and the students are hiding its more likely that the shooter will keep moving. Active shooters are more like target shooter than hunters, they are going to shoot at anyone they see.
    2. They also found that acts chaos caused during a mass evacuation combined with the fact that during an evacuation the students would all be moving out of the same exits to a centralized location outside creates a target rich environment. it would be easier for the shooter to blend into the chaos and escape.

    The study also recommends against responding officers standing by for a SWAT team to respond. Instead it recommends that at least a four man team (tactical shield, diamond formation, with at least 2 rifles) enter the school immediately to engage the threat.
    Irishpride, May 26, 2012
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  8. LawMan3 Moderator

    I know the study recommends a 4 man team, but sometimes those resources just aren't available, especially in smaller towns. IMO, no less than 2 should make entry in an active situation, rather than wait for another 2 guys to show up 5-6 minutes later, after the shooter blasts a few more innocent victims.
    LawMan3, May 26, 2012
    #8
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  9. Irishpride Subscribing Member

    true that was why I've also heard it recommend that officers from different agencies close to each other train together for this. That way the 1st four on scene are the 1st four in the door, regardless which dept they are from.

    A four man team is a must as far as I see it. I understand what saying and in that situation, a couple of minutes could cost more lives but I think that doing it with less than 4 is a plan to fail. this type of operation has to be done right the fist time. Look on the bright side it's a hell of a lot better than standing by for SWAT.
    Irishpride, May 26, 2012
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  10. Hush Moderator

    BINGO!


    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
    Hush, May 26, 2012
    #10

  11. mtc High Priestess

    Active shooter class I attended had first on scene first in the door.

    And the kids and faculty were notified beforehand that morning - according to the school dept release.

    The media is just playing up the parent's irrational hysteria.

    And yeah - these shitbird parents are likely the SAME one's who'd tell their bratty kid "You behave or I'll have the policeman over there arrest you!"
    mtc, May 26, 2012
    #11

  12. LawMan3 Moderator

    That's only funny when the parent has a warrant...poetic justice :D
    LawMan3, May 26, 2012
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    zm88 and mtc like this.

  13. Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis"

    Honestly, unless you're going to train the students to fight back, this strikes me as horseshit. Fish in a barrel is a target-rich environment. Fish scattering in a pond is a difficult shot at best. The shooter doesn't plan to escape, why make his job easier by providing his targets all bottled up? Hiding? Under a desk? In a closet? The shooter will keep moving all right...from room to room. Firing happily away until he's down to his last mag or he hears the troops coming in. Why not have students evacuate from first floor windows? put a rope ladder in the upstairs classrooms. Hardly using "the same exits".

    And the very idea of sacrificing a few kids so you can be sure the shooter (who is probably well-known to the student body) doesn't escape is sickening. But hey, what else would you expect from guys who are too cheap to pay a decent South American hooker?

    My kids have been instructed that if the SHTF to GTFO. If you're comfortable having YOUR kids cower and pray, have at it.
    Wolfman, May 27, 2012
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    sgthoskins, USMCMP5811 and Hush like this.

  14. Herrdoktor MassCops Member

    Have fun teaching children how to evacuate a school while someone is shooting at them.
    Herrdoktor, May 27, 2012
    #14

  15. Hush Moderator

    Its not so much the issue of teaching specific techniques, like climbing out a window, as it is an overall understanding of basic common sense, ie: someone is shooting people, so get the fuck out and get as far the fuck as possible. Kids are smart, they can hide in the woods, find a safe place, or even walk home.

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    Hush, May 27, 2012
    #15
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  16. Herrdoktor MassCops Member

    First off you are never going to get parents to sign off on a 'run away chaos' theory.

    Secondly, children panic so the last thing you want is them running around. Keeping them in a safe place and locking down the school is standard practice for a reason.

    If I am part of the first team going into a school the last thing I want is children running around. Keep them in the classrooms, lock the doors and stay down.
    Herrdoktor, May 27, 2012
    #16
    Irishpride likes this.

  17. Hush Moderator

    I don't disagree necessarily, I just think its a feel-good placebo, akin to hiding from a nuclear blast under your desk...and about as effective.

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    Hush, May 27, 2012
    #17

  18. Hush Moderator

    Also, if its not a typical "active shooter" but more of a Beslan event, now you have a higher number of hostage/victims on-site for rescuers to deal with.
    Its a fucked situation either way, not something a cookie cutter plan can address.

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    Hush, May 27, 2012
    #18

  19. USMCMP5811 Administrator


    A rifle would be nice, never mind 2 but, there are some mental midgets out there (mumble, mumble, mumble) that believe us lowly patrolmen out there can't be trusted with rifle..... :mad:
    USMCMP5811, May 27, 2012
    #19
    Hush and LawMan3 like this.

  20. Herrdoktor MassCops Member

    what's their reasoning?
    Herrdoktor, May 27, 2012
    #20

  21. USMCMP5811 Administrator

    Mayor says no to police rifle patrols

    Backs M-16s only for special units Some local leaders irate over plan

    By Michael Levenson and Donovan Slack

    Globe Staff / May 30, 2009

    Facing sharp criticism, Mayor Thomas M. Menino said yesterday that he will not approve a Boston Police Department plan to arm neighborhood officers with semiautomatic rifles, although he expressed some support for their use by specialized units.

    The police have obtained 200 M-16s free of charge from the US military and made plans to train dozens of officers and arm them with the rifles. A Globe story yesterday said police officials told union leaders months ago and again in recent weeks that they planned to issue the weapons to precinct patrol officers, as well as specialized units such as the bomb squad and harbor patrol.
    But Menino expressed deep reservations yesterday about the plans. He said he had not been briefed on the proposal until a few days ago, and in comments to reporters he was clearly unhappy about the idea of officers patrolling the city's neighborhoods with high-powered semiautomatic assault weapons.


    http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...jects_plan_to_arm_patrol_officers_with_m_16s/
    USMCMP5811, May 27, 2012
    #21

  22. mpd61 Federal Auxiliary Police

    First responder in an ACTIVE SHOOTER incident = go find and kill or be killed trying...end of story there. You're alone, one two or three of you, you GO!

    Come upon a HOSTAGE situation? Different doctrine, with different rules. The major difference between the two situations is time

    The simple fact is active shooter incidents are quick, dynamic events that usually experience a high casualty rate very quickly. Lockdown can be effective, as demonstrated when the Virginia Tech shooter passed up a couple of rooms he could not gain entry into.
    In any event GOD FORBID! any of us ever need to deal with this nightmare. I only know that I am expected to go in and kill the killer. It's really that simple. If you hear gunfire, you have to go stop it. Waiting around is not an option.
    mpd61, May 27, 2012
    #22

  23. HistoryHound MassCops Member

    I understand the concept of keeping the kids in the classrooms and the doors locked because it theoretically reduces their risk and should make it easier for police to account for everyone. My kids' school did drills where the teachers locked the doors and the kids took cover in the classrooms. Sounds like a good plan, unless the shooter gets into one room. With all the rooms interconnected once the shooter is one room, he's in every room on that floor on that side of the building. The biggest problem I see with having the kids go out the windows is that the windows in most of the schools I've been in are those small crank out windows which would require breaking the window to get out. I have no problem with breaking the window, just that it would take time to do it in a situation where every second counts.

    I had no problem with my kids participating in lock down drills so they knew what the school wanted them to do. With that said, I also told them that if anything happened and they had the opportunity to get into the woods to do so and walk to the nearest road or house. Oh and school policy be damned, they had their cellphones in the bags at all times. What good is giving the kid a cell phone for an emergency if it's in their locker when that emergency happens.
    HistoryHound, May 27, 2012
    #23

  24. Hush Moderator

    That lowly cops are stupid, can be barely trusted with pistols, and if given rifles would shoot everything in sight while terrifying the public by deploying them on every call.

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    Hush, May 27, 2012
    #24

  25. Nightstalker Customer Service Specialist, Team XcessiveForce

    I would rather they do this 100 times a year than be unprepared during an active shooter situation in one of our kids schools.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
    Nightstalker, May 27, 2012
    #25
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