Hey guys, need some advice. I'm a part timer in NH, just started last May, so obviously my experience is very limited even compared to full timer who just got on the job. I work in a town of about 6k people north of Amesbury. Recently we were doing traffic enforcement in an intersection, and I pulled over a motorcyclist who rolled through a stop sign. As I finally was able to get close to him, he sees the lights and just slows down to a crawl in the middle of the lane. I then give a quick blast of the siren, he turns around to me and points with his thumb "Who me?" I point to the side of the road and tell him to pull over. Before I even get on the radio to dispatch, he gets off the bike and starts waving his hands yelling, "What did I do?" etc. I get his license and reg, and start my interview and I state to him that he did not come to a complete stop. He then asks, " Did I drive through it or roll through it" I replied whats the diff. He then asks for my dash cam to review the stop, which we obviously don't have. Anyway, long story short, He has a cdl and gave him a break, I gave him a written warning, which in NH is only seen by my town. He still argues with me, asking why I pulled him over and that the stop was unfair. I tell the guy, Im cutting you a break, theres no need to argue. He then asks if I'm going back to the intersection, which stupidly I said yes. I end the stop, and he pulls a u-turn across the double yellow about 20 ft before an intersection, and proceeds to sit at the corner of the intersection, watching me and how many people he says I "let run through the intersection". The guy is a douche, I'm just wondering what would you guys do if some asshole did or has done that to you.
The moment they start to argue in that way, their warning is a citation. Stop pussy footing around with these assholes. Let him argue his point in front of a judge. And incidentally, if he would start coming at me like that after the stop, he may have found himself going to jail for disorderly conduct.
Stop trying to be the nice guy because you will only get burned in the end. If they want to argue about a ticket they can go to court.
Very important to be "in control" and to not be a "pushover". Once a suspect sees you are weak it can ugly quick......this applies to many scenerios.......
Piece of advice from one who has been through it: just do your job, don't try to be the nice guy, it will simply get you in trouble. Many cops I know, myself included, have, usually early in their career, tried to be nice to someone, either cutting them a break, letting something slide or whatever and found themselves in hot water or feeling like a fool for doing so. You want to be loved, become a firefighter; everyone hates the police. Incidentally, like some of the others have said, motorist arguing = instant V!
Thanks so far guys, I was gonna send him a citation via mail but my supervisor put the kibosh on it. I really don't have an issue being a dick, I had already issued the warning though. So rather than grabbing his license again and writing a citation, I released him. More specifically, what would you guys do with some one being a cry baby and watching you perform traffic enforcement. I believe I could've arrested him for discon hanging out on the guard rail in an intersection for a half hour. I am contemplating a hand summons via his local p.d., but I still think my supervisor won't let it fly.
I can't count how many stories I've heard from friends who tried to be the nice guy early on and got burned. It's wonderful when you cut someone a break and they still call to launch a complaint. Just one more reason why I could never do what you guys do. I was a total bitch with 95% of the payables people I dealt with when I did corporate collections because if I wasn't they tried to take advantage. One reason why I liked HR much better, if I did my job right everyone believed I was their friend for the simple reason that looking out for their best interests was usually in the best interests of the company & ultimately in my best interest.
Watch "The Young Centurions and remember Kilvinsky's Law.. "Be civil to everyone and courteous to no one. This rings true because I've had officers put themselves out on a motor vehicle stop and issue a written warning, then 20 minutes later some asshat is in my lobby demanding to speak to a supervisor because "the officer was rude to him." After having to listen to this guy bitch and whine your sergeant will want to know why this person wasn't cited at the stop. Shit runs downhill and a large number of citizens think LEO's are assholes if they get a break or not so fuck em and cite every time.
Forget about that particular stop. What's done is done. Don't go writing him a summons or mailing him a V. That's only going to cause problems after the fact, especially since your supervisor told you to let it go. Learn from it and you'll be ready for the next donkey who pulls something similar. It's a long game. This guy will get his either from you or someone else on the blue team. No one wants to put their feet down while riding a motorcycle but I can't think of a more articulable fact that he didn't come to a stop than the fact that he never put his feet on the ground as would be required at a complete stop.
Thanks guys, advice heard and taken. Next time some one wants to cry and watch me perform traffic duty, we'll see them argue a discon case in front of a judge!
"I'm cutting you a break by writing you a warning. If you don't quit flapping your cock-holster Ill check another box and make that warning into a citation. Have a nice day!" Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
If it was me and he started to watch me, I would have driven off to the other 50 places I have to watch traffic or I would have gone and gotten a drink at the local store, or taken a piss back at the station. Make him waste his time, I guarantee you he would have driven off in frustration. If he continued to follow and track you, I'd call for a second unit and pull a felony stop on him, as you don't know his intent and he could be waiting to ambush you. Articulation of the facts.
A long time ago (1988) I owned a rice rocket. With a little skill you can bring a bike to a quick stop and get back moving again without putting your feet down. Anyway carodo, this will be one of many. Let it go. You have a whole career to try to save the world. It is a lot easier to do it one day at a time, a little at a time. Court is the place to debate a ticket, not the roadside. Let them know that by including an envelope with the citation. When your shift is over, go home and live your life for the next 16 hrs without letting bullshit tag along on your shoulder. Good luck.
A very quick stop, sure. But to stop for the 3 seconds they taught us in drivers Ed, you'd have to put a foot down.
Exactly. "Be respectful to everyone, courteous to nobody" - Andy Kilvinsky in The New Centurions. There are most certainly instances when a warning (verbal or written) is warranted, but they are becoming few and far between. Traffic enforcement is not at all my bag, but the other night I wrote two $100 CMVI's for running a red light, one of which was when I was on my way to work. That person was apparently offended by my screeching tires when I had to panic-brake to avoid hitting her after she ran a red light and almost hit me. She was so offended by my screeching tires that she felt it necessary to look directly at me (thereby giving me 100% positive ID from her DL photo) and gave me the finger. Enjoy the early Christmas card, Ms. _______. The other was when my light turned green (I was in the marked cruiser), I waited a second, then started to go. A car blew the dead-red, then had the balls to blow her horn at me, as if I was the one who had a problem. I hate traffic enforcement, but it's always useful and sometimes satisfying. 20 days to pay or appeal.
Carodo, All stops are unfair and people are being wronged and raped by the very bloated pork barrel oppressive government agents they pay to protect them and cut them breaks. I was told it is far easier to de-escalate the level of a stop than it is to escalate one. By that, when you stop them hit them hard with every light you have so you can see everything thats going on and approach like its wanted felon--it just may be. A guy jumping off the bike and walking back to me is going to warrant a even more kicked up response, next time that guy may not be getting off approaching you to discuss the merits of your stop. NEVER take people back to the cruiser to discuss your evidence or review the tapes, be confident in your skills and what you saw. Also work on getting that plate and location out faster or plate entered on the MDT. What if as you say, this guy jumped off the bike but instead of waving his arms, he pulled a gun and shot you through the window while you were sitting in your coffin. No one knows where you are or who were trying to stop. Personally,I get the the lic,reg and inform them why they were stopped, ask if the address is correct on there info then go back write the V outside the car, weather permitting. After being handed the V they start to argue I inform them court is where they can discuss it, not on the highway with cars going by.....drive safely! I base my V or VW( I write very few Written Warning) based on the there attitude, driver history and the offense. You are given discretion and you should use common sense, this guy would have got a V. Leave it at that. Though by law you may be able to issue a summons,V or what ever your boss said drop it,ignoring a order and pissing off a Sgt. is far worse than what ever punishment you would dole out to this idiot. I am still new myself, after a stop I review it in my head and look for things I could have done better. I would chock this up to experience and not repeat the mistakes. Be safe
