Holy Cross College may arm officers

WORCESTER — Without guns since 1843, the College of the Holy Cross is now considering arming its public safety officers.

The evolution of policing on and off campus and the Holy Cross partnership with the Worcester Police Department plays into the campus-wide discussion that began seriously a year ago. Holy Cross President Rev. Michael C. McFarland, S.J., will make the decision this summer, but is considering feedback from the campus community.

Who's packing?

Anybody wanna take bets?????????:wink_smile:

PBC, thanks Brutha for that. It took someone from WAY DOWN THERE to find this article. Well written, but as always, when reading the arguments against arming, not one made any real sense. I'm not saying that simply because I'm IN FAVOR of them carrying, but as a, what I believe to be a, rational adult who feels that the arguments they gave are CRAP!

Good Luck HOLY CROSS!

On a side note, I noticed in the article they didn't differentiate between SWORN and NON-SWORN departments, just who carried. I think it would have been a more truthful and complete article if it was mentioned. An unarmed NON-SWORN person cannot be compared to an unarmed SWORN person, and that is in no way a slam at non-sworn departments, but the level of overall training really should have been given some credence and considered a real factor in the issue.

I used to live in the neighborhood on that hill and would have completely supported them if they were looking for feedback. It is next to another shitty part of Worcester. Also if you consider the parties that happen around Holy Cross, they may not always be students and may not be part of the law abiding society.

Here's an analogy for you Fr. McFarland: try going to an exorcism without your crucifix.

In a compromise, the school will permit campus police personnel to carry Glock replica water pistols loaded with holy water.

If your uniform and car say "Police" then you carry a gun, its as simple as that. Criminals, crazies and people running for help don't differentiate between armed and unarmed officers.

I get a big kick out of how these institutions place such a high value to the wordly experience of the students who don't want their police armed.
Like the police will suddenly become rabid pit bulls who pull their firearms for lockouts and escorts WTF!?!?!?

Anytime :wink_smile:

Is the Mass College Of Pharm in Worcester armed? I thought they were but the paper list them as one of the unarmed colleges.

They carry in Boston and since the supervisors are interchangable, I would guess they're armed.

Don't quote me on that.

I wouldn't read too much into the part about the College President asking for student input.

Where I work, after Viginia Tech, the president was considering arming the PD, and there was a vocal group of students that were against it. But, the president went ahead and armed the police anyway.

That was the smart move. It's nice to get community backing but when they don't you just have to do the right thing and stand alone. The fact of the matter is that these students are only there for 2 - 4 years (depending on the school) and they are going to have a big influence over what someone needs for their career? Some of the reasons (scenarios) they come up with are so far fetched. And based on what?? Their long life experience? None of it ever comes true. Those that are against it either don't know what they are talking about, or they are anti-police anyway because they are already on the wrong side of law.

Which makes me think:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZvT2r828QY&feature=fvst"]YouTube - Morons of the West - Blazing Saddles[/nomedia]

That's right, Kilv. This one is for you. Enjoy!

You know what I love about some of the stu(pid)dents at schools like this? They are all in favor of 'change' when it benefits them... I almost choked on my own vomit when I read the kid who said that there are 'other' forms of violence that the school needs to address like: 'racism' and 'sexism'... These people who want to constantly change and adapt culture to appease the 'fringe' and make sure they don't want to offend anyone, are the same people that say "You knew the department was unarmed when you came here, so you knew what you were getting into" Well... then that should apply to them as well. You knew you were going to a Catholic School, so stop having sex, watching porn, getting in fights... etc... You (students) have the WORST reputation in the city, and everyone knows it. I think I read in the comments that one of the kids pictured in the article was actually locked up by WPD for ABPO... anyone confirm that? No wonder he is against department getting armed. Arm them, or put them in fucking blazers and unmarked cars for their safety. Call WPD for anything out of the ordinary, and watch them trample your precious students.

Just substitute "Naive college students" for "people of the land". I stress only the naive ones are MORONS because there are plenty who see the light.

Not long after I started at UMass/Boston (where the cops had been armed 24/7 for several years) one of the student publications brought up the question of whether it was a good idea that the cops carried. Two differing opinions were represented. The male (I know I've brought this up before, bear with me for those I didn't already bore) was the typical dipstick who had a slew of 1/2 baked and irrational arguments. The Female, who appeared in her picture to be a few years younger than the hippie made nothing but sense. The ONE LINE I will NEVER forget was, "We don't live in a sugar plumb fairy world."

We kept talking of taking her out to dinner, but it never materialized. I bet she's a Chief of Police somewhere now, or a tough judge or JUST A DAMN FINE REPUBLICAN!

You speak the truth... Sometimes the arresting officers have to convince the arestee that indeed they are "real cops" and this is usually done by a professional handcuffing and double locking or perhaps a dose of OC or Taser. The whole ride to the station is often a verbal tirade against the officers and sometimes includes "My dad is a cop in ___________ or My dad is a State Trooper and he'll get me out of this.

Then when I see these kids come into the booking room they're often quoting the bill of rights demanding to see a lawyer and refusing to even start the process until they talk to one. Once they get educated on the booking procedure they are then reminded that the bail clerk won't set bail unless they complete booking. This works well on a Friday night of a three-day weekend.

They are simply naive because the media, their parents, and mostly the college administration portray campus police as security guards instead of actual law enforcement.

*end of rant*

Once again I would like to advocate for Kilvinsky and I to be appointed by the Governor as Deputy Undersecretary's of Public Safety for Campus Police Affairs & Board of Higher Education Liaisons. Believe me we would first move to enhance the public awareness of the scope and purview of the various campus agencies, public and private, throughout the Commonwealth. Secondly we would educate administrators, trustees, and student leaders just what its "all about". Lastly we would commission a short, yet focused and interesting documentary about the world of campus policing for airing on PBS (and maybe MTV)
:wink_smile:
Unfortunately Ron Glidden and Professor Gates would cock-block our candidacy, so it's just a pipe dream I guess...
:unsure:

I used to work at a large campus in Boston that had a law school. On and off, the law school students would do an orientation with some of the new undergrad students. They basically told the students that if a campus police officer spoke with them for any reason, they should refuse to id themselves, ask if they were under arrest, and then walk away. Last but not least, the students were advised that they should then file a complaint with the campus PD to see if the officer violated any policies. We had a pretty strict unwritten policy against arresting students. Sometimes the students went over that line and it was always priceless to see the reactions.

I don't think the school did alot of favors with that policy. A housing crunch made it so that upper classmen had to live off-campus for one year. After a couple of years of fantasy land and dealing with the subdued reactions of the campus police, these newly off-campus residing students would then deal with Boston PD the same way they did the as the campus police. It usually didn't go as well for these students as they expected.

Considering Holy Cross alum Clarence Thomas wrote on of the most patriotic, historically relevant, constituitonally faithful opinions ever in his McDonald v. Chicago concurrence last year, I'd say arming their PD would be quite apropo.

Niteowl, I have a slew of pocket constitutions from my involvement with FedSoc. I've considered keeping a few in my patrol bag so any time someone screams about me violating rights, I can leave one in their property bag.

Awesome. Yeah, law students suck...

"Law students are fun bunch. It's like a distilled bunch of the biggest a-holes you knew in college..."

Most law students don't realize that (1) the average cop knows 90% more about criminal law than the average attorney (much less, a law student) and (2) they study the law AFTER this stuff goes to court in generic, non-state specific theoretical contexts. There are always state-specific laws and legal nuances a cop could stick up their 4th point of contact if they're not careful.

You'd think they'd STFU and not take such a stupid risk, since arrests can be bar disqualifiers.

I know they are arming them, but what about legs? Waka waka wakaaaaaaaa

I can honestly say, I've had fewer BAD experiences with Law Students than students who THOUGHT they were lawyers. Most of my experiences with law students (and honestly in 26 years, there aren't all that many) have been essentially positive or neutral. Rarely do they give us much grief.

Now, if you want to talk about BUSINESS SCHOOL STUDENTS, I could go off for hours in a RAGE, but that's WAY off topic!

Delta, there's nothing better than being able to 'accomodate' people to fit their needs! :giggle:

Oh, and 5-0, "Archer" is one of the funniest shows out there right now, and it is DEFINATELY OUT THERE!