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Discussion in 'War Stories' started by Hush, Dec 28, 2011.
RAW VIDEO: Video of fatal police shooting of suspect (Feb. 2010) - YouTube
Very frightening. Glad the officer was ok, and no $$$ has to be wasted on living quarters for the pos behind the wheel.
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I'm glad the officers are ok too.... but why the heck would they chase the car on foot, especially in slippery conditions like that.
LA you would have to be an east coast cop to understand. It's a west-east thang. Right or wrong we tend to just bum rush the bad guy. Shock and Awe kind of thing.
Regardless of where we work, it doesn't make any sense to "bum rush" the bad guys. Sometimes the "shock and awe" thing can be reversed on us, especially if the bad guy is armed and trained. It certainly wasn't good for the officer here who looks like he was run over.
We don't have to accept the status quo, just because that's the way it's always been done. Tactics can be improved, regardless of where we work. Bettering ourselves is what helps us stay alive in this profession.
LA..I'm with Ocks on this one. We tend to do it around here and you gotta admit if Rodney King had been swarmed, well things might have been different. Just sayin...
Rodney King was swarmed...just not at the onset of the stop. AFAIK, none of the cops got hurt in the Rodney King incident.
By not doing it right away they lost that "shock and awe" factor they are talking about. Not second guessing and I'm not sure it would have made one but of difference but things definitely do happen a lot differently from one coast to the other.
You're 100% correct, it most definitely would have turned out different.... in some form. Maybe nothing would have happened and he would have been taken into custody. Maybe an officer might have gotten hurt during the swarm because he was a big, strong, guy who wasn't going down willingly. (I arrested him a year and a half after "the incident" for a domestic related charge so I have first hand knowledge of him.) Maybe during the "swarm," he could have tried to take someone's weapon from their holster and he would have had to be shot instead. Or, worse case scenario, maybe during the "swarm" he would have actually taken an officer's weapon and shot him with it. Anything's possible.
All I'm saying is that "swarming" a suspect (or in the case of this video, a car) that we don't know is armed or not, is not the most tactically safe way of doing things. I've been involved in hundreds of felony, car and ped stops and never do we do that. Some of those involved an OIS, which made the "non-swarm" tactic, the safest way to handle. There are lots of videos on the internet that will attest to what I'm saying.
Guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.
I don't understand the reluctance to second guess or Monday morning quarterback sometimes. This is the perfect forum for that. Its not a disciplinary hearing but more of an AAR or debriefing. Its a great place to point out where someone fucked up, and how to do differently/better in the future. This guy fucked up because he ended up underneath a car...that's not supposed to happen. So its a perfect time to point out what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future.
All too often, guys who end up in close calls like this are lauded as heroes, and discussion ends there. Media aside, even among coworkers there seems to be a reluctance to point out errors, especially blatant tactical mistakes. There were 2 cops shot in Woburn under very similar circumstances less than a year apart. One was lucky, one wasn't. Its important to critique and learn from these events, so as not to repeat them in the future.
I just watched the video again. I don't think we could say that one officer chasing after the car was much "shock and awe." It certainly didn't work in this case. Both officers are darn lucky to be alive.
You make some very valid points. Just because we utilized a certain tactic 20 or 30 years ago, doesn't mean we can't evaluate and learn to do it better in the modern day. That's just being smart.
An example of this is: After the Rodney King "incident," our department developed a new (new for us at least) ground grappling tactic and came out with the beanbag shotgun, which at the time was an answer to situations like this one.
LA Like I said right or wrong (probably the later) It's certainly not a good idea to bum rush a M/V with two guys. I think we are luckier in the fact that we really haven't had a Newhaul (spelling?) incident and most of bad guys here don't want to take on a cop. That being said it can happen to any one of us at any time.
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@ Frank no cops were hurt in the King incident but some went to jail.