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Main Page Are Deputy Sheriffs LE?
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Posted by:

Are Deputy Sheriffs LE

Posted by: RPD931

Deputies do have Police Powers, however they are limited, but they still can arrest. Many Campus Police departments use Deputy Sheriff powers to have an "exapanded range" throughout the county (i.e. off property as state Specials only have powers on property for the most part). Deputy Sheriff Powers are actually all Campus PD's really need when you consider the powers of Deputies.

Campus Police use the deputy Sheriff Powers for LE. Sheriffs Dept's do not use the powers for LE purposes. For the most part they are merely corrections as they often have less LE training than Campus Police Officers...

Posted by: Southside

From what I have been told, Deputy Sheriffs are LE. I only know of one area that is not and I believe it is Constables. From what I have been told, Alliance Security has more LE powers than that of the Constable.

Just kidding Hunter,

I couldn't resist.........No pun intended

Posted by:

oh I'm well aware of there powers and duties, authority, and jurisdiction.I just want to know what peoples opinons are, are they considered LE, or not. I dont mean in the capacity which you speak of I mean the sheriffs dept as a whole. I'm curious what people think of where the sheriffs are on the LE totem pole?

Do people consider them police or corrections.

I know there considered police officers by MGL and common law but whats peoples opinons, hey and what about writ office guys are they LE or no.

Hmmm,Interesting to see what opinons this draws?

Posted by:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnr76

From what I have been told, Deputy Sheriffs are LE. I only know of one area that is not and I believe it is Constables. From what I have been told, Alliance Security has more LE powers than that of the Constable.

Just kidding Hunter,

I couldn't resist.........No pun intended

Funny I hear the same.

HAHAHA, according to some here you would be correct in that statement,LOL

Posted by: fscpd907

Massachusetts + Sheriffs = Corrections

Posted by: PearlOnyx

""Sheriffs Dept's do not use the powers for LE purposes. For the most part they are merely corrections as they often have less LE training than Campus Police Officers...""

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with these statements. "Do Not" is a strong statement. I could throw down a few arrests made by my boys this month, so I don't know if "Do Not" is the right choice of words here. The second half of your statement "merely" is a bit demeaning, and somewhat innacurate. However it is true that I "merely" spend 40 hours a week with the dirtbags you arrest.

All and all this seems like the beginnings of another "I'm a real cop" "No I am", "You're Departments a Bunch of Hacks" posting. Please be careful to be intellegent when you reply to this topic.

Posted by: RPD931

Pearl,

Sorry not trying to bash Deputies... A few of my friends are Deputies. I was referring to the basic functions LE vs. Corrections. And yes I understand you guys deal with the dirtbags we bust, a task not many would want, but you guys (for the most part) do it proudly.

My apologies for the demeaning "merely". If you're in Essex County, that's great!! As far as I'm concerned Essex is the best S.O. to work for. And I'm not kissing up when I say that. I've taken a few classes with your folks and about 1/3 of my R/I Academy had Deputies from Essex and those folks were sharp. Middlesex is great too.

You wanna talk about hack jobs?.. look at Suffolk, pre-Cabral. (probably not an intelligent response, but I'll type it anyway.)

In the future I'll try to Identify exempt Offices...lol...

Posted by: USMCTrooper

I know this will most likely blow up some people's skirts sideways, but I just report law and case law. Deputy sheriffs are appointed by the Sheriff who is elected by voters within their county. He is an elected official. Where I got confused is when county govts started getting abolished by the State. However, the District Attorney is elected in the same manner, county government or not and the answer I got is they were not part of the abolishment. I don't know about other areas but in Hampden County the State pays the bills. Deputies have specific powers granted under law and are given the authority to carry weapons, cuffs, etc under Ch 147 Sec 8A. In Comm v Baez, the Appeals Court ruled that deputy sheriffs have Chapter 90 powers, although the law allows the Registrar to issue citation books to "Police Chiefs" and makes no mention of sheriff or deputy. However, the Court found they cannot arrest for any offenses not involving breaches of peace or without a warrant. This, I would suggest, severely limits their arrest power since many misdemeanors are arrestable by statute. The Courts have specifically stated what they can and cannot do and never ruled they arent governmental employees.

This is where I get confused. Is a CO employed full time at a jail also appointed as a deputy sheriff? I know many many "deputies" who send in $50 to a political fundraiser and become "deputy sheriffs" or who say they "took a class to become a deputy" and now serve civil process. Are there 3 separate categories? Do these civil process servers annoy those who work daily in the Jails? What is the "law enforcement division"? It seems they are all the same but one group certainly worked harder and works fulltime compared to the others.

Anyone....anyone....Bueller....anyone?

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Pearl,
I just read a post you submitted May 19, 2003 re: Sheriff/DOC merger. It sort of corroborated a part of what I have said above. The points you made of why you were/are personally against such a merger and don't think it will happen are valid... but, all I can say is... Never Say Never. In 1991 talk of a merger between the MDC Police, Capital Police and RMV Police with the State Police seemed far fetched and had the same Union, Rank and contract issues you mentioned. Then it was done.

With the stroke of a pen, things are done but the fallout is rarely figured in.

Posted by: DODK911

USMC,

About the different catigories, I'm not 100% sure but I do have a friend who works for Norfolk County and when he first started there he was a CO and after a year he was given the option to take the Reserve Police Academy, which he did and when he graduated he was then Deputized as a Deputy Sheriff and then he could do details,etc... if that helps anyone. As far as if I personally feel that Deputy Sheriffs are LEO Officers, I say YES.

Stay Safe

USMC, SEMPER FI

Posted by: Irishpride

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPD931

For the most part they are merely corrections as they often have less LE training than Campus Police Officers...

I'm not sure if you are familiar with what training a lot of Deputy Sheriff's have. I'd say the vast majority of the have a full Corrections Academy plus the Reserve/Intermittent Academy which is not only enough to qualify them for an SSPO waiver it also adds up to somewhere around a total of 600 hours of training. Granted that still falls short of the approximately 720 hours that the SSPO Academy is up to now, but also factor in that like Pearl posted they usually spend 40+ hours a week working in the HOC or Jail (OJT has to count for something). Back on topic though the only Sheriff's Office I'm real familiar with has two totally separate Deputy Divisions Law Enforcement and civil Process, so yes the LED Deputies are obviously Law Enforcement (ie; Academy certified and most are either CO's or from another Department), and the Civil Division basically speaks for itself.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Just to answer a few questions, or at least take a shot at it:

At least for my department, I completed the MA DOC Training Academy, and was appointed as a Corrections Officer. During my first year, I attended MCJTC Reserve Acadmey, and after my years probation, I was appointed as a Deputy Sheriff.

As far as state and county government. Sheriff's Department's which were taken over by the state after abolishment of county government, were absorbed into the Department of Public Safety. Despite the fact that most departments still bear the name "County", most are State entities. There is rumor however, that we will shortly be becoming (some letterhead has already changed) the "Essex Sheriff's Office". The District Attorney's Office's are also undergoing state absorbtion. You will notice that officially, your district attorney's office no longer refers to itself as the "X County District Attorney's Office". I know here in Essex, it is referred to the "Northeast Distirct Attorney's Office". I believe the registry of deeds is the only "county" operated agency here in Essex. Although I'm not sure how that works now that there is no more Essex County Government.

As far as the question about civil process, a Deputy Sheriff is a Deputy Sheriff as far as the law is concerned. I don't really run into the Civil Process guys too much, so I don't know a heck of alot about them, but they all seem to be pretty good guys. They do wear different badges than we do, not sure why. Most are part-timers who work in some other aspect of law enforcment, who serve papers in some of the less populated areas. The full-timers handle more of the heavy duty stuff such as arrests, evictions, repossessions. All seem like good guys to me.

Suffolk prior to Cabral? I've heard alot of stories but never seen it, so I can't speak. I've met her several times, as she is a ally of my Sheriff. Seems like a nice enough lady, but the Jury is still out. Give her some time and I'll evaluate

.

Nothing personal about the "Merley" comment. I just take point to point out some of the things people say and the accidental biases people put out there without knowing or meaning them.

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Let's answer that question by figuring out what "Law Enforcement" means.

In the context of the term Law Enforcement, law refers to this definition:

law
Pronunciation: 'lo
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse log law; akin to Old English licgan to lie —more at LIE
Date: before 12th century
1 a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules (3) : COMMON LAW b (1) : the control brought about by the existence or enforcement of such law (2) : the action of laws considered as a means of redressing wrongs; also : LITIGATION (3) : the agency of or an agent of established law c : a rule or order that it is advisable or obligatory to observe d : something compatible with or enforceable by established law e : CONTROL, AUTHORITY

Enforcement:
en·force
Pronunciation: in-'fOrs, -'fors, en-
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French enforcier, from Old French, from en- + force force
Date: 14th century
1 : to give force to : STRENGTHEN
2 : to urge with energy
3 : CONSTRAIN, COMPEL
4 : obsolete : to effect or gain by force
5 : to carry out effectively <enforce laws>

Since the term "Law Enforcement" covers such a broad variety of duties, responsibilities and actions, and regardless of what police powers Deputy Sheriffs in MA have, because there are definitions that can be applied to what exactly it is that they do, I would say yes.

Also, according to the above definitions, a mall security guard is a Law Enforcement officer. Do they enforce the rules, regulations, and laws of the mall? Yes. Do they apprehend shoplifters, in which shoplifting is a prosecutable crime? Yes. Do they make arrests? No. They are by no means police officers, but they are still in the same salad bowl of law and order.

Posted by:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer Dunngeon

Let's answer that question by figuring out what "Law Enforcement" means.

In the context of the term Law Enforcement, law refers to this definition:

law
Pronunciation: 'lo
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lagu, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse log law; akin to Old English licgan to lie —more at LIE
Date: before 12th century
1 a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules (3) : COMMON LAW b (1) : the control brought about by the existence or enforcement of such law (2) : the action of laws considered as a means of redressing wrongs; also : LITIGATION (3) : the agency of or an agent of established law c : a rule or order that it is advisable or obligatory to observe d : something compatible with or enforceable by established law e : CONTROL, AUTHORITY

Enforcement:
en·force
Pronunciation: in-'fOrs, -'fors, en-
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French enforcier, from Old French, from en- + force force
Date: 14th century
1 : to give force to : STRENGTHEN
2 : to urge with energy
3 : CONSTRAIN, COMPEL
4 : obsolete : to effect or gain by force
5 : to carry out effectively <enforce laws>

Since the term "Law Enforcement" covers such a broad variety of duties, responsibilities and actions, and regardless of what police powers Deputy Sheriffs in MA have, because there are definitions that can be applied to what exactly it is that they do, I would say yes.

Also, according to the above definitions, a mall security guard is a Law Enforcement officer. Do they enforce the rules, regulations, and laws of the mall? Yes. Do they apprehend shoplifters, in which shoplifting is a prosecutable crime? Yes. Do they make arrests? No. They are by no means police officers, but they are still in the same salad bowl of law and order.

So would Constables be law enforcement? They enforce Capias arrest warrants issued by judges? Hmmm just curious.

Posted by: jimbo

in Plymouth County the sheriff is currently defending himself in court for firing over 30 Deputies who supported his opponent in the election. he then turned around and replaced them with family members, pals and the leader of the local Democrat (aka:Commiecrat) group. the guys he fired had years of experience but were replaced with liberal democrat hacks - no way would i consider any deputy appointed by the plymouth county sheriff to be law enforcement. the k9 guys are good men, but most of the deputies get their positions by holding campaign signs.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

It's nice to see that you qualified your statement by reffering to only Plymouth County. Thank You

Posted by: Call911

Deputy Sheriff's in Suffolk County are mandated to be MCJTC certified as well as to attend the yearly refresher class. They also receive several in-service classes including, but not limited to, self defense, handcuffing, service baton, pepper spray, c.p.r./first responder with the AED, firearms training and mandatory qualifying twice a year. Most have additional training such as S.E.R.T. and crowd control training, fire safety training with the Scott Air Pac/search and rescue along with fire safety, HazMat training. This is just a basic list of the training Deputy Sheriff's receive on an annual basis. As far as not being trained as well as Campus cops, this is not the case. Some Correction officers never become Deputy Sheriff's and yes, most Deputies do work full time inside the wall. I also would say that they are LE officers. Suffolk has had their share of problems, but, for all of the hard working officers, GREAT JOB!!! Hope this clears up some misunderstanding about DS's. Thank you for you time

Play it safe!!!
Call911

Posted by: Wolfman

Not intending to reopen whats been sprayed around here to a sickening degree, the factor of role (here it comes again) comes into play - it's good to see that the training is mandated - in some places - and such training has its purpose but for the SD it should be behind the prison walls and geared towards the corrections field. Crowd control, fire suppression, first responder, some firearms training - are all useful skills to have and be proficient at when working in a prison environment.

This is where the focus should remain, and the resources better applied - to a curriculum which enhances and improves the Sheriff's role as a corrections officer. I noticed there wasn't any training listed in motor vehicle or criminal law, constitutional issues, community policing, domestic violence, motor vehicle crash investigation, juvenile crime, patrol procedures, intoxicated driver identification and investigation, speed measuring devices, auto theft, white collar crimes, civil / elder / handicapped rights, death notification, narcotics identification and investigation...and I would hope that the SD does not focus on these types of roles because that's what everyone else is supposed to be doing. I would LOVE to see more of the "regional lockups" where departments can bring prisoners after arrest for booking / holding until court. Talk about a way to secure your future! IMO this is where the focus should remain and the services should be provided statewide - a needed service which falls under the scope of the SD's role as corrections.

You also get into issues of standards of training, policies and procedures, rules & regs, unions, scheduling, civil liability, and a myriad of other job aspects that come up when you are part of an active enforcement organization. Municipalities and campuses have these things in place and functioning over years of service. Unfortunately, there are no such standards in place for SD enforcement functions statewide, as each department is their own little island, as different from the next as I am from the person in the next car in traffic. To paraphrase what I said somewhere else, everyone wants to drive around in the car with the flashing lights and chase bad guys - but no one wants to give road tests. In for a penny, in for a pound.

As far as the comparison against campus PD's, etc., there is one big difference to consider. Two people can be identically trained but odds are the better performer is going to be the one who gets out there and does the work every day. When testifying in court and writing incident reports, the term "training and experience" comes up - and ask anyone who has been out on the streets for any length of time and they will tell you training is good but experience is better.

Bottom line, it's all well and good that people go to this academy and that inservice and this supplemental training but what ultimately determines your effectiveness is how well you take what you've learned and make ongoing practical application of it. To say otherwise would be like saying some kid who just graduated from college with a masters in CJ or Corrections with zero hours on the road or at the HOC can do your job just as well as...you can, merely because they had more schooling.

Posted by: RPD931

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo

in Plymouth County the sheriff is currently defending himself in court for firing over 30 Deputies who supported his opponent in the election. he then turned around and replaced them with family members, pals and the leader of the local Democrat (aka:Commiecrat) group. the guys he fired had years of experience but were replaced with liberal democrat hacks - no way would i consider any deputy appointed by the plymouth county sheriff to be law enforcement. the k9 guys are good men, but most of the deputies get their positions by holding campaign signs.

Shame on the Public who voted for this Sheriff. Having a "few friends" doesn't get you elected... having thousands of people vote for you gets you elected... so, shame on the people who vote for hack' sheriffs.

Posted by: RPD931

Quote:

Originally Posted by masstroopers1

I noticed there wasn't any training listed in motor vehicle or criminal law, constitutional issues, community policing, domestic violence, motor vehicle crash investigation, juvenile crime, patrol procedures, intoxicated driver identification and investigation, speed measuring devices, auto theft, white collar crimes, civil / elder / handicapped rights, death notification, narcotics identification and investigation....

MT1,
If you are referring to the MCJTC Reserve Academy, It does cover just about all of those topics... I guess you never started there..

Posted by: Call911

My posting was not to get argument out of people but to indicate the level of training that a DS receives and what they have the capabilities of doing.
I will agree that officers on the street (PO) have more experience dealing with all the topics that are mentioned but I also know that an officer that works behind the wall, that receives the right training, can do just as well a job at those tasks of a police officer. These officers (DS) do receive the training needed to deal with the day to day services of a local or college cops but don't use them as much.. Like I stated in my last posting, Criminal Law, Motor Vehicle law and other topics are reviewed each year at the refresher class that is certified by MCJTC. I am not saying that DS
should do police work, but, they are vested by law to do many things a PO can perform. A DS is a Correction Officer (excluding campus officers) with police powers and I agree that the poweres should be consentrated on the job that they do. They are just a nother branch of LE officers that wants to fit in to the LE family and most of them deserve that. I also believe that police officers should get a chance to work in the prison enviornment for a while for they will gain knowledge and insite on what the CO/DS have too deal with. Anyway, thank you for the response. Sorry if I mis-spelled some words...LOL

Play it safe!!!
Call911

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Let's remember that there are some corrections positions which require Deputy Sheriff's to have Law Enforcement authority, hence requiring some sort of training. These jobs include Outside Perimeter Security, Security Investigations, K9, Transportation, Hospital Security Details, Apprehension. Personally I spend a majority of my time now taking inmates outside to hospitals for surgery. Per policy for both us and the state one officer on the run is required to be and armed and sworn Deputy Sheriff for security purposes. I've had a few occasions where the hospital staff have violated security procedures, and called the inmates family to tell them were their sick son was. It's nice when the guy's drunken brother shows up and storms the hospital room. Luckily no guns yet. Our Perimeter Security guys have made arrests for contraband violations as well as disturbances on property. K9 teams can make arrests on mutual aid calls. Security Investigations officers make arrests on criminal investigations related to the facility, such as contraband interdiction. Transportation teams can make arrests (never seen it happen, but could) for interfering with the transportation with those in their custody. Arrests could also be made if something obviously illegal happens right in front of you, and you are duty bound to react.
Other than their corrections uses and other ancillary uses, I don't see a place for police work for Sheriff's departments yet. Maybe in the future, when we have corrections down and near perfect, money is abundent, and we are better trained, then I could see it. There is really no place for it now.

Posted by: SRRerg

Pearl I know Essex is doing more and more with the regional lock-ups, and I agree w/MT1, this is a good thing. Many of our arrests wind up bailed before the day is over, or are transported to court, but you guys have been great 9/10 times when our cells fill up or we have someone in custudy with high/no bail, "Just get them here by 10pm."

Though I am sure there will always be disagreement about jurisdictional issues, The regional lock-up helps us free up personnel, and is better for the person in custody. At the very least, they get to watch the game, am I right?

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Please be advised that posts have been deleted from this thread. I would like to remind everyone to keep it professional. If you have a problem with someone or their department, take it up with them. Personal attacks have no place on this forum, and they will be removed. Thank you and carry on.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Yep they get to watch the game.

We keep them on 23 hour isolation status untill they are arraigned, so in that hour they get out they can do whatever they need to do, hopefully shower! Otherwise, all the game watching will be done out the cell window. I was working at MetroWest Hospital in Framingham all week, so I missed most of Sunday's game on the drive home after being relieved, very upset!

Posted by: jimbo

in plymouth county the sheriff's dept refuses to take arrested people who are very disruptive, violent or suicidal. this, despite having more staff in the jail than we have police officers on the road, nurses, doctors,restraint chairs etc. they only accept the easy ones who can't get up bail money - i've seen it first hand numerous times. as i said in a previous post, the k9 guys are good men as are the vast majority of the c.o's - but in plymouth county most of the deputies are political hacks who held signs for the elected sheriff- there is a big difference between a reserve officer acadamy and a full time police officer academy - bottom line - if you don't answer 911 calls - you are not a cop

Posted by: thumper2168

911, believe it not a large portion of Troopers have Corrections, or local law enforcement experience. I started at Walpole State Prison before going on to become a local police officer. I learned alot during my time, but I wanted to be a police officer so I took the test...... not made a contribution, until ALL sheriff's in MASS. get on board and make it a standardized process where you get on based on merit, the respect will be lacking... As you said there are some excellent deputies, but as you and I know they still can and do pay there way into a job. I know people that in the last year that paid to get their kids into two different counties as a co. One of these kids is a zero with five on the BOp with no right or reason to be wearing any uniform. With Bristols forcing their way into New Bedford some Deputies have been asked to leave ceratin task forces, when they do a great job. Bristol spolied the water for a lot of people. You cant disregard the Chief, the Mayor and the DA and say I'm the Sheriff. That is how people get hurt, and Providence type shootings happen. Merge with the DOC take the huge payraise if you want to be a police officer take the test...

Posted by: newbiResvPO

Hi Everyone,

As a new forum member and soon to be a Deputy for PCSD, my classmates and myself who just Graduated from Plymouth Police Academy class 04-01 (Dec 2003) went the REBA and will be following up with numberous in-service training.

We learn a lot and have plenty of respect for all LEO mostly full-timers for the amount of training they go through. Having said that, we also learn that we all (part-timers, reserves, aux, campus and other agencies) are part of the Blue Wall. Meaning that we stand together against those scumbags who would nothing else but to want to hurt our brothers and sisters.

So, when I see a fellow brother/sister I see Blue not thier dept. I hope the feeling will be mutual for my fellow PSCD deputies and myself!

I personally had the pleasure of meeting some great instructors, POs and deputies. They all acted in a professional manner and treated us all with respect. They also taught all of us what is expect of us on the streets. My class also had other police depts represented in our class.

Please remember that the person is acting under the "color of law" and should be treat as such, even if in your opinion thier dept is imperfect. It does not mean the person has anything to do with it.

It is going to be hard enough out there to figure out the bad guys from the good guys in civies! Let not make it harder when the blue is wearing a uniform.

Thanks,

Len

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Call911

As far as not being trained as well as Campus cops, this is not the case. Some Correction officers never become Deputy Sheriff's and yes, most Deputies do work full time inside the wall. I also would say that they are LE officers. Call911

When you make an absolute statement like that about Campus Officers, you are bound to be wrong;

MANY Campus Dept.s require full MPOC and Degree to get on board. Many more send you to MPOC after hire. In addition, many of these police persons get in-service AND professional development. For instance I go to Plymouth for full-time inservice and at least one other course like Sexual Assault Investigations/Interview& Interrogations?crime scene preservation/etc, etc, etc, ANNUALLY...and guess what?..................

Most of these persons (myself included) perform these duties on a daily basis, which expands the theorem into practice. Most Police Officers, Including campus cops, are better trained to be police than your deputies. Sorry Charlie.

RPD,

Shame on you for trying to imply that the few hours of scratching MV Law and other topics in R/I Academy makes theses guys something they're not! Take your thumb out of your mouth, YIKES!

Posted by: Wolfman

Hi Len. Welcome to the board. Please don't take any of what I'm about to say as personal - I don't know you and could very well be talking out my ass, but this seems like a good a time as any...

Sounds like you enjoyed the academy. If you feel so inclined, maybe you can satisfy my curiosity about a few things...

Did you pursue a job with the SO in order to do law enforcement?
If so, had you taken other civil service exams or tests? How did you do?
Was there an exam you had to take for the SO? How did you get in?
Did they tell you that you would be performing enforcement work or corrections? (You talk about what to expect on "the streets" - so I'm guessing you want to do enforcement.)
Have you been to college or in the military?
Do you have family in law enforcement? In the SO?

One more thing - any words of advice for those who have been taking civil service exams and waiting on lists for years, those who are tearing through their mail day after day for a letter about the next RTT, those BROTHERS and SISTERS who are being laid off in our cities and are wondering how they are going to keep their homes from foreclosure and property from repossession?

Sorry if I came off a bit abrupt, and again don't take any of this personally - I'm just trying to gain some insight here.

Posted by: newbiResvPO

masstroopers1

none taken, first off I am going to be a Reserve Deputy. I work many moons ago for the Boston Muni Police when it was it infancy. Got out of Leo because affirmative action was in and I was out, so to speak.

So I change fields all together. I mainly went through the academy for personal growth and I was ask to come onboard with the PCSD.

I should have rephase my words "the streets" meaning that I will not be working in corrections side of the PCSD, other then doing hospital details.

But, now since I have a good understanding of the work PO do. Everytime, I pass an officer on the side pulling someone or have someone pull over, I go slow just make sure he/she is "ok". I don't interrupt, interfere or stop, but I do observe what going on.

As far as individuals losing thier job due to layoff and budget cuts, my heart does go out to them. I personally do understand what it is to lose one employment and knew the tension that can be bought onto one family.

If my comments touch a nerve, it was not meant that way. It just seems that as LEOs we need to stay together as a group and try to work together as a team. Maybe it just that I a newbie and wishing fo a utopia, but what the hell. Who ever thought the US would become like Isreal as it did on 9/11. Am I scared, yes for my kids who are just starting out in life.

There is just too many sleaze balls out there bent on hurting other people or taking other people property, or making money on the misery of others and as long there are humans. There will also be scum, I gather that the downfall of the species.

You are right PO should have in thier contracts "no layoff clause" like the US Postal workers do, but I am afraid that more of a dream then a reality.

No, I too old to be full time PO. I am looking more into doing Civil process, working as a CPO and doing details for PCSD.

Thanks, for the time and benefit of this forum.

Len

Posted by:

[quote="thumper2168"] I know people that in the last year that paid to get their kids into two different counties as a co. One of these kids is a zero with five on the BOp with no right or reason to be wearing any uniform. quote]

Thumper lets not speculate here for we know the 5 on the guys BOP are misdearmeanor BS charges,(tell me you dont know PO's with a BOP). Lets not bring that into this. Try not to spread someones private business on the board here, its not professional or a wise thing to do and can cuase problems, thank you.

We all know some messed up situation and BS someone lives with but lets try and keep the dirt that can really hurt others out, as non of us are with out mistakes here or have friends that have been there.

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Hampden County Sheriff seeks funds to reopen unit
January 15, 2004
(Boston-AP) -- Hampden County Sheriff Michael Ashe has asked state Legislators for money to reopen a special unit aimed at short-term treatment of mentally ill inmates from the state's four western counties.

State funds for the special unit at the Ludlow jail were eliminated as part of state budget cutbacks in 2001 and Ashe said the state has gone back to warehousing its mentally ill jail inmates.

He says about a quarter of the jail population has some form of mental illness and 10 to 15 percent of the inmates are severely mentally ill. He says treatment can prevent them from committing more crimes.

This guy runs a solid jail and terrific rehab programs. He has said publicly he has no intention or desire to expand into a police role as is being done out East. I for one would take the money from those places and give it to him so he CAN implement this plan. This is crazy. Here a sheriff TRIES to do what he is supposed to be doing and he has to plead for money while out East, other Sheriffs spend huge amounts of $$$ on expanding their empire. With a handful of exceptions, this guy's people are not interested in branching out.

Posted by: Call911

MPD61

Just so you know, thats not what I meant about campus police, but ,only to indicate that most Deputies have the same amount of training from the same reserve academy + the additional yearly training to keep current.
I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way. No need for the whole "thumb" comment. I did not write these posts to start problems, but, to share what I know about this topic...Thank you for your response.

Play it safe!!!
Call911

Posted by: RPD931

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

RPD,

Shame on you for trying to imply that the few hours of scratching MV Law and other topics in R/I Academy makes theses guys something they're not! Take your thumb out of your mouth, YIKES!

Easy Easy!! I was just merely pointing out that they get "covered" on those topics in R/I Academy.

And although I DON'T have MPOC, I do have Part-Time PO Experience with a very busy department and currently work PT as a Campus PO. I've also attended tons of additional training and agree the Campus PO's are MUCH more qualified to be on "the streets" than a Dep. Sheriff.

Now if we could only convince the State to dump the SSPO academy and make ALL go through the Full Academy - that would be nice!

Posted by: PearlOnyx

It's really too bad that Hampden can't get the funding for the Mental Health Unit. It's amazing how many of these guys are really screwed up. I used to work in the Infirmary, so I was always amazed at how many guys would come up for mental health treatment. I tused to blow my mind to find out that a guy I dealth with every day was actually pretty heavily medicated due to a severe mental illness. Mental health treatment is important topic in corrections, and something that could definatley be better funded.

Posted by: Call911

RPD931:

Could you fill me in on why you think that campus police (sspo)have MUCH more qualifications to be on the streets than does a Deputy Sheriff who receives the same R/I academy as they do. D.S.s also have a seperate academy that they go through in addition to the R/I academy. They also become fully armed, do details and assist in civil disturbances.
i.e. War protesters in Boston. Suffolk was out in force durring these events. Anyway, if you have the right answer, please let me know!!!!

P.S. I am also a "part time" Campus Police Officer.

Thank you for your time.

Play it safe!!!
Call911

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Call911,

To be sort of a devil's advocate, I want to agree a bit with some of the sentiment that is expressed on here. I do think that SSPO Graduates are generally, but not always more qualified for police work, than Deputy Sheriff's with the Reserve Intermittent Quality. My reasoning is as follows:

The SSPO academy is far more in depth than the RIA, and covers a broader span of topics, and covers them more in depth than in the RIA.

SSPO graduates, mostly campus police officers, do police work every day. For the most part, Deputy Sheriff's with the RIA are mainly Corrections Officers, who do police work on the side. While, I am not saying they are completley un-qualified, I do think that experience and therom in practice does give some weight. I think that a campus police officer with SSPO, in most cases, is going to be far more knowledgeable about criminal law, day to day procedure, and will react better in situations on the outside, because they deal with these things every day.

While I do think Deputies with the RIA, as well as Reserve Police Officers, who are trained similarly, are qualified to do some forms of police work, such as details and other forms of work, I do not feel that we are well enough trained or experienced to do patrol work. I know my criminal law very well, but would I know what to do in many situations, probably not because I don't do these things every day, and I do not have the experience. In addition, I do not think that the RIA academy covers enough material to do actual patrol work. When I graduated from Norwood, we used the last day to do Traffic Stops. With a class of 30 or so, I got to do one mock stop. I really don't think that this is good enough training to throw a guy out on the street, and say "Stop this DUI, Maniac, Wanted for Murder, Nutjob, and oh, by the way, you don't know that, you think it's just a defective equipment stop".

There are so many things that the Sheriff's departments could focus on other than moving into patrol work. The money that is spent on hiring staff to move into patrol work, could be spent on opening more services and providing more correctional staff. I know right now, that due to staffing cuts I am only allowed one week off a year, and people are being forced overtime left and right during the summer. These critical issues which effect safety of correctional officers should be addressed. I think it is irresponsible of Sheriff's to spend money on moveing to patrol work, when the lives and safety of their correctional staff are at jeopardy due to irresponsible staffing and funding.

Posted by: Call911

Pearl:

Thank you for your response. I agree for the most part The R/I classes are not as in-depth although most police departments in this state only require the R/I academy for thier reserve part time officers. I think that my point is, if it is good enough to be a reserve police officer by doing the R/I academy, than it should be the same for Deputy Sheriff's. I also agree that DS's should keep the police work limited and let the POs do this
work due to the training that they have. Also, when a DS is out on the street, for the most part, he/she/it (LOL) is doing a detail that the PDs could not fill just the same as a R/I PO would do and not sent out to "patrol" as far as I know. I think that we are beating a dead dog now and I think this will be my last post on this topic. I would like to say thank you to all that responded to my thoughts and remember, I have the utmost respect for all that are in uniform for we have the same goal, to serve and protect and to go home safe each and every day!!!!

No hard feelings to anyone....

Play it Safe!!!
Call911

Posted by: mpd61

Ahhhhhhhhhhh,

Thanks kids! I do feel better now. So nice to have objective and analytical banter once in a while. Thanks! I hope it was good for you too!

Posted by: Wolfman

VERY good posts.

Let's save the real bashing for that guy from the speeding ticket web site...you know, Mr. Evaporated Under Pressure.

Posted by: RPD931

Excellent!! A nice CLEAN debate =D> =D> =D> =D>

Like MT1 said, save the bashing for the Speeding Ticket idiot...and while we're at it, how about that Lowell Police suck website guy? Bash him too.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

911,

I'll have to agree to disagree. I think the inherent difference between a R/I with the Reserve academy and a Deputy Sheriff with the Reserve academy, is the amount of actual police work performed, and the experience that is gained from it. Other than sitting in a car in the middle of a highway or standing in the middle of a street, I can honestly say as a Deputy Sheriff for three years now, I really haven't done any real police work. Wheras, a Reserve may be allowed to work actual shifts and do some work which could quality him better through experience.

Posted by: Call911

Pearl:

You do have me there! "LOL" I was only saying that the R/I academy is the same for both R/I PO and DS. You are right as far as the experience that an officer gets by working the beat vs. a DS on a detail.

Thanks.

Keep it safe!!!
Call911

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