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International Drivers Licenses

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Posted by: mazz

Has anyone had experience with International Drivers Licenses? There restrictions, how long they are good for, or if they are considered valid licenses in Massachusetts?


Posted by:

Ahh international drivers license those things I think there good for eternity, they never expire they are good for life, they also have a dual purpose there great in emergency's like when you go camping and and you shit in the woods and forgot the TP.

Or they make a great novelty gift for the foriegn traveler to bring back home instead of one of those "all I got was this lousy T-shirt T-shirts.


Not to be sarcastic but there worthless.


Posted by: Harley387

Internation Driver's Licenses have been discussed here at length in the past. You should try doing a search. In summary, They are good only for toilet paper. They are meaningless unless the operator has a valid license from his own country, and that country must be recognized by our registry. There is a list of these countries someplace (sorry I don't know where). Generally speaking, dirt-bags will try to pass these off as a legit license. You would be suprised how many guys just scratch their heads, and hand the paper back and say, please slow down, have a nice day. I once got one that had 7 or 8 violations written on the back of it! The bottom line is, if someone hands you an International Driver's License, but does not have a valid license elsewhere, lock em up, and or cite them for 90/10. Also, an out-of-state operator with no license IN POSESSION can be arrested under 90/10. Hope this answers your question.


Posted by: Gil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Not to be sarcastic but there worthless.
What?!!! You mean I just wasted $22 bucks, I thought I could drive worldwide with the license sent to me by http://www.idl-international.com/

Knew I should have got one from http://www.driverlicense.net/ instead!

or....

http://www.adriverslicense.com/
http://www.fastidl.com/
http://www.us-passport-visa.com/inte...rs-license.htm
http://www.licenseman.com/


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley387
Internation Driver's Licenses have been discussed here at length in the past. You should try doing a search. In summary, They are good only for toilet paper. They are meaningless unless the operator has a valid license from his own country, and that country must be recognized by our registry. There is a list of these countries someplace (sorry I don't know where). Generally speaking, dirt-bags will try to pass these off as a legit license. You would be suprised how many guys just scratch their heads, and hand the paper back and say, please slow down, have a nice day. I once got one that had 7 or 8 violations written on the back of it! The bottom line is, if someone hands you an International Driver's License, but does not have a valid license elsewhere, lock em up, and or cite them for 90/10. Also, an out-of-state operator with no license IN POSESSION can be arrested under 90/10. Hope this answers your question.


This Officer (Harley387) is a gentleman and scholar. I could not have said it better myself. The foreign licence from a recognized country is good for a year to drive here in go old Assachusetts. Mind you a license from another US state is only good for 30 days to drive here in the peoples republic of Ass. What drunk liberal politician thought this up, we will never know. HUMMMMM let see which one has more credibility a New Hampshire license or an Saudi Arabian license? PS Mazz I use to be one of those officers who Harley describes as scratching my head and say have a nice day but now I know from trial and error I just tow and cite them for 90/10 (I only file a criminal complaint and not an arrest just in case the license is legit so I wont be accused of false arrest) Good Luck!!


Posted by: PATS246

Everytime someone has handed me an International drivers license I tell them that they should take this and throw it away b/c it is no good.

I know they can drive on a license from another country for a year, but if they have gotten a vehicle registered in Mass then I would say that they have taken up residency here. 90/10.


Posted by: JP64

MA RMV info on international driver licenses

http://www.state.ma.us/rmv/forms/21317.pdf

They are worthless. To use them, they need a license from their country of origin in addition to the IDL. If I am not mistaken, Comm. of MA recognizes the license from their country of origin w/out IDL.


Posted by: PATS246

IDL or not they mean absolutely nothing in MA. If they have a license from their country then if they are visiting this country they can drive for a year. Once residency takes place then they must get a license. I stopped a guy with for some ch90 violations, the guy claimed he spoke no english, he handed me a mass ID card, a international drivers license and a de Brazillia license. The vehicle was registered to him. Guess what hombre watch your car get hooked up to the tow truck and here is your cite for 90/10.


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

If the car is registered to the driver in question who is driving on a foreign license and it is registered in Massachusetts. Bingo as far as I am concern the established residency. Tow and cite 90/10.


Posted by: LeadDog17

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCCPD
If the car is registered to the driver in question who is driving on a foreign license and it is registered in Massachusetts. Bingo as far as I am concern the established residency. Tow and cite 90/10.
"This has 'International Incident' written all over it!"


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Another trick to the trade is if you stop a foreign license holder and the MV is registered to him/her look at the plates on the car if they are
Mass PAN plates
Green Plates example 123-ABC these plates were last issued in the late 1980s
Red Plates example 123-4AB these plates were last issued in the early 1990s
Red Plates example 1234-AB these plates were last issued approximately a year and half ago

or

If they have the most recent Red Plates example 12A-B34 look at the registration sticker to see how long they have registered the car or owned the plate thus far.

This will only work if the operator is the owner of said vehicle
Remember this is not fool proof but it may help you in articulating why you cited the individual for 90/10. It will tell the court that said individual has registered car/s for over a 1 year period and has been driving on a foreign license during this time.


Posted by: Harley387

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCCPD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley387
Internation Driver's Licenses have been discussed here at length in the past. You should try doing a search. In summary, They are good only for toilet paper. They are meaningless unless the operator has a valid license from his own country, and that country must be recognized by our registry. There is a list of these countries someplace (sorry I don't know where). Generally speaking, dirt-bags will try to pass these off as a legit license. You would be suprised how many guys just scratch their heads, and hand the paper back and say, please slow down, have a nice day. I once got one that had 7 or 8 violations written on the back of it! The bottom line is, if someone hands you an International Driver's License, but does not have a valid license elsewhere, lock em up, and or cite them for 90/10. Also, an out-of-state operator with no license IN POSESSION can be arrested under 90/10. Hope this answers your question.


This Officer (Harley387) is a gentleman and scholar. I could not have said it better myself.
Why, thank you. I have been called lots of things in my time, but this is a first. LOL!


Posted by: DFP2662

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCCPD
PS Mazz I use to be one of those officers who Harley describes as scratching my head and say have a nice day but now I know from trial and error I just tow and cite them for 90/10 (I only file a criminal complaint and not an arrest just in case the license is legit so I wont be accused of false arrest) Good Luck!!
You'd summons for this when on another thread you advocate arresting for operating to endanger when coupled with 90-18 as a breach of the peace? This seems a little out of whack to me.


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFP2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCCPD
PS Mazz I use to be one of those officers who Harley describes as scratching my head and say have a nice day but now I know from trial and error I just tow and cite them for 90/10 (I only file a criminal complaint and not an arrest just in case the license is legit so I wont be accused of false arrest) Good Luck!!
You'd summons for this when on another thread you advocate arresting for operating to endanger when coupled with 90-18 as a breach of the peace? This seems a little out of whack to me.

Oh BOY If you read the statement you would not be asking me this question TROUT


Posted by: DFP2662

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCCPD
PS Mazz I use to be one of those officers who Harley describes as scratching my head and say have a nice day but now I know from trial and error I just tow and cite them for 90/10 (I only file a criminal complaint and not an arrest just in case the license is legit so I wont be accused of false arrest) Good Luck!!
["DFP2662"]You'd summons for this when on another thread you advocate arresting for operating to endanger when coupled with 90-18 as a breach of the peace? This seems a little out of whack to me.

["BHCCPD"]Oh BOY If you read the statement you would not be asking me this question TROUT

My question was more to the point of arresting for operating to endanger and 90-18 (which was SPECIFICALLY stated as a non-arrestable criminal offense in my academy class) versus issuing a criminal summons for a subject with an obvious fake international license. I'm curious how the courts have responded to this enforcement.

For what it's worth I'd summons for the BS license, rather than arrest. Your position is contrary to both my training and experience and I was interested in why you chose the enforcement action you did (or would.) Would you care to enlighten me, or dispense more sarcasm for a fairly mundane question?


Posted by: Harley387

DFP2662 wrote:
My question was more to the point of arresting for operating to endanger and 90-18 (which was SPECIFICALLY stated as a non-arrestable criminal offense in my academy class) versus issuing a criminal summons for a subject with an obvious fake international license. I'm curious how the courts have responded to this enforcement

Well, yes, and no. If the operating to endanger amounts to a breach of the peace, you MAY arrest.


Posted by: mikemac64

How would this be a false arrest? No license + operating a MV on a public way = probable cause. Plus, if you are thinking big picture, this will get the perps fingerprints into the system (if you are thinking big picture).


Posted by: DFP2662

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley387
DFP2662 wrote:
My question was more to the point of arresting for operating to endanger and 90-18 (which was SPECIFICALLY stated as a non-arrestable criminal offense in my academy class) versus issuing a criminal summons for a subject with an obvious fake international license. I'm curious how the courts have responded to this enforcement

Well, yes, and no. If the operating to endanger amounts to a breach of the peace, you MAY arrest.
I am aware of that, the point is has anyone here EVER managed to get OTE to fly as a breach of the peace? It hasn't worked in any of the courts I've testified in and the DAs were less than amused. Technically legal, yes. Recommended practice...?


Posted by: mazz

Thank for all the info.


Posted by: Harley387

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFP2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley387
DFP2662 wrote:
My question was more to the point of arresting for operating to endanger and 90-18 (which was SPECIFICALLY stated as a non-arrestable criminal offense in my academy class) versus issuing a criminal summons for a subject with an obvious fake international license. I'm curious how the courts have responded to this enforcement

Well, yes, and no. If the operating to endanger amounts to a breach of the peace, you MAY arrest.
I am aware of that, the point is has anyone here EVER managed to get OTE to fly as a breach of the peace? It hasn't worked in any of the courts I've testified in and the DAs were less than amused. Technically legal, yes. Recommended practice...?
This is where your report writing skills will play a big role in court. Though I have not arrested for OTE, I am 90% certain that I could illustrate a breach of the peace to a jury.


Posted by: PATS246

Breach of the peace is the key "condition". It would be a very fine line to arrest someone for speeding in general and arrest b/c there is a breach of the peace. Operating recklessly so as to endanger has no statutory right of arrest, but if it amounts to a breach of the peace then it could be. I would even go so far as to say you could also charge the person with Disorderly Conduct (arrestable in presence). If you had a guy in the local Stop and Shop plaza doing donuts racing around the lot on busy Saturday morning while the lot is full of pedestrians, I would go with the Disorderly, Operating recklessly. Or if you had a thickly settled residential area where children were outside playing, pedestrian traffic and someone was doing 60 mph in that area, I'm sure it could amount to a breach of the peace, given the circumstances. I think that one has to take into account everything that is occurring. Would I suggest to lock someone up for 90/17 -90/18 as a breach of the peace, hardly. But if you see someone operating in such a manner that falls into the category of disorderly conduct, and you articulate everything that is going on then you might have a good case.

I know there is a case where the court ruled that a vehicle crossing back and forth over marked lanes (civil), amounted to a breach of the peace and was disorderly conduct. Not sure of the specific case. Take into account the totality of the circumstances, use your head and write a good report. And when in doubt you can always summons.

I guess this post is a tad off topic as it is in the International drivers license subject.


Posted by: Harley387

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPD11
Breach of the peace is the key "condition". It would be a very fine line to arrest someone for speeding in general and arrest b/c there is a breach of the peace. Operating recklessly so as to endanger has no statutory right of arrest, but if it amounts to a breach of the peace then it could be. I would even go so far as to say you could also charge the person with Disorderly Conduct (arrestable in presence). If you had a guy in the local Stop and Shop plaza doing donuts racing around the lot on busy Saturday morning while the lot is full of pedestrians, I would go with the Disorderly, Operating recklessly. Or if you had a thickly settled residential area where children were outside playing, pedestrian traffic and someone was doing 60 mph in that area, I'm sure it could amount to a breach of the peace, given the circumstances. I think that one has to take into account everything that is occurring. Would I suggest to lock someone up for 90/17 -90/18 as a breach of the peace, hardly. But if you see someone operating in such a manner that falls into the category of disorderly conduct, and you articulate everything that is going on then you might have a good case.

I know there is a case where the court ruled that a vehicle crossing back and forth over marked lanes (civil), amounted to a breach of the peace and was disorderly conduct. Not sure of the specific case. Take into account the totality of the circumstances, use your head and write a good report. And when in doubt you can always summons.

I guess this post is a tad off topic as it is in the International drivers license subject.
Well said.


Posted by: Ptlm. King

Not to bring up an old topic, but how about a college student with a IDL?


Posted by: Killjoy

What do you mean? A college student with a legitimate IDL or one of those fake internet ones? A college student is one of the few people in the commonwealth who could legitimately possess and use an IDL from their home country. Remember, though, that they MUST possess in addition to the IDL, a valid license from a country that is recognized by the US for having a legit license (most European countries, Israel, China, Etc.) The RMV has a listing of recognized countries.


Posted by: Ptlm. King

Ok, obviously a college student with a real IDL. That was my question, even though they are a college student they are also a resident of the commonwealth for long periods of time. In my opinion they should have a license in MA if they plan on being here. God knows I can't speak or read any of the rmv's list of recognized countries.


Posted by: Killjoy

I sympathize with your point, but as long as they are full-time students, they are exempt from having to get US licenses. As I'm sure you know, even students from other states are not required to get MA licenses, providing that they are full time students, as long as the campus or local police are kept informed of the situation.


Posted by: SRRerg

Just to clear up a few points - there is no such thing as a "real IDL." The only legitimate licenses are from individual states, or foreign countries. Despite Liberal's efforts, there is no "world RMV" to issue International Driver's Licenses

If they give you a foreign driver's license, they should have their passport with them, check for a visa stamp on the passport.

Check the foreign licenses carefully, most of them are false. In addition, a contact in the State Department told me they are having problems with counterfeit visas (mostly Brazillian). He also told me we wouldn't be able to tell by looking, they call in the numbers to verify. Good luck!


Posted by: USMCTrooper

This is the pretext to the suit settled last summer by the Federal Trade Commission re: IDL's and IDP's:

"International Driving Permits"
A Scam, Feds Charge

January 16, 2003
A federal district court has ordered several marketers to stop using Internet spam to sell so-called "international driver's permits" (IDPs). The Federal Trade Commission charges sellers who, under the guise of "international law," pitched their worthless documents to immigrants and other consumers who were seeking an alternative to a government-issued driver's license or identification document.

Authentic IDPs, which are available in the U.S. from only two authorized agencies, American Automobile Association (AAA) and American Automobile Touring Alliance (AATA), have a very limited use and purpose.

"The defendants deceptively marketed bogus documents," said J. Howard Beales III, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. "They misled people with limited English proficiency and those whose licenses have been revoked about the value and the purpose of the IDP. And they charged them exorbitant fees. We're pleased that the FTC can put this scam in park." He noted that while the permits being deceptively marketed on the Internet typically sold for between $65 and $375, the real IDPs offered by AAA and the AATA are just $10 apiece.

Legitimate IDPs, which are issued under the United Nations Road Traffic Convention of 1949, assist a person with a valid driver's license to drive in foreign countries that have also signed the Convention. Notably, an IDP is not a substitute for a government-issued driver's license; rather it is simply a booklet that translates that government-issued driver's license into a number of different languages. Therefore, IDPs merely serve as a translation document for a government-issued driver's license, and they have no value independent of such government-issued licenses. IDPs do not protect their holders from traffic enforcement or from "points," and cannot be used in place of suspended or revoked license, or as identification in lieu of a government-issued document.

"The FTC's action helps alert consumers to these scams, while letting bogus marketers know this conduct won't be tolerated," said Sandra Hughes, vice president of AAA Travel. "These scams lead innocent travelers to spend hundreds of dollars for false documents. Even worse, they encourage unlicensed drivers to return to our highways, endangering all of us."

The Complaints
The FTC filed complaints in federal district court against the following defendants:

Yad Abraham (Abraham), also known as (a.k.a.) Tim Thorn and Timothy Thorn, individually and doing business as (d.b.a.) Sharpthorn Internet Solutions and Internex, LLC;
Jaguar Business Concepts, LP d.b.a. Libertymall.com, Cheyenne Investment Alliance, LLC (Cheyenne), and Jacqueline Demer, individually and as member/manager of Cheyenne;
Jordan Maxwell, a.k.a. Russell Pine, individually and doing business as BBCOA, a.k.a. BBC of America, a.k.a. Better Book and Cassette of America, and Vic Varjabedian, a.k.a. Victor Varjabedian, a.k.a. Varouj Varjabedian, individually;
William Scott Dion, individually and d.b.a. PT Resource Center and PTRC, a.k.a. Don Glessner;
Carlton Press, Inc., Carlton Press, Ltd., and Kim Fleming Bo Weiss; and
one or more parties d.b.a. the Institute for International Licensing (IIL), Aladdin Financial Management, University Systems, and Wheelie International Limited.
In each complaint, the Commission alleges that, in violation of the FTC Act, the defendants falsely claim that their IDPs are a legitimate alternative to a state-issued driver's license, and misrepresent that: 1) their IDPs authorize consumers to drive legally in the United States; 2) their IDPs allow consumers to avoid points or traffic violations, as well as sanctions for driving with a suspended or revoked driver's license; and 3) their IDPs can be used in the United States as an identification document in the same ways that a person uses a government-issued photo identification document.

Consumer Education
Consumers seeking more information about how to avoid potentially deceptive ads for IDPs are encouraged to read the new FTC consumer alert: "Ads for International Driver's Licenses or Permits Could be a Dead End." This publication, which is available on the Commission's Web site also cautions consumers that it is against the law for U.S. citizens and residents to use an international driver's permit in place of their state-issued driver's license.


Now, re: using one of these cards to enter a bar or club or purchase liquor, it is ultimately up to the individual liquor license holder to determine what they accept. However, they (license holder) are only exempt from fines/criminal liability (et al) for anyone underage being delivered or sold alcohol if said establisment reasonably relies on
1) Mass issued ID card
2) Mass issued license
3) US Passport
4) US issued military ID
5) or passport of a government recognized by the United States.

Any other form of ID (even neighboring states) does not preclude the license holder from suffering criminal liability. Any places that accept alternate forms of ID do open themselves up to penalty if the ABCC or Police discover someone underage being delievered alcohol.


Posted by: j809

Quote:
contact in the State Department told me they are having problems with counterfeit visas (mostly Brazillian).
Get a UltraViolet Light Pen. I have one, it's excellent. State Department Visas have security features that you'll see with UV light. Also helps with new Mass Licenses, UV light you should see "MA" across the license. Check passport, although they are not required to possess it with them. If they have passport , check I-94. The maximum stay allowed in the country for a visit is six months. If they stayed over the visa their right to operate under foreign license is no good. Then check INS screen through LEAPS and check their statuts. 99.99% of all Brazilians I stopped with IDL permit have overstayed their VISA. If their information does not come back from INS you might not have the right person there, because all foreigners entering country legally are entered in the system.


Posted by: RPD931

any suggestions on where one can find a UV light pen? How much are they$$?


Posted by: j809

Just go on EBAY and type ultraviolet light pen. You will see many types, i got a nice one with LED lights,laser pointer and UV light as well as a pen for abour $20.




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